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2006-06-02 12:00 PM
in reply to: #440866

Elite
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Livingston, MT
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Buddy of mine just got a new bike and had compacts put on it at no extra charge. He didn't change out the rear cassette. Needless to say he is a weak rider and because he has some ambitious goals, it makes sense for him. For you however, I wouldn't waste my time. It's just another distraction.



Edited by ChuckyFinster 2006-06-02 12:00 PM


2006-06-02 12:07 PM
in reply to: #441221

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Lethbridge, Alberta
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
amiine - 2006-06-02 9:02 AM

... why compact cranks aren’t more popular? ...



Jorge, whether or not it was accurate, the assesement you made in your edited post is quite common. I think that stigma associated with compact cranks is one of the reasons they aren't as popular.
2006-06-02 12:14 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Champion
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Two seat rocket plane
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

OK,

I put a compact (50/34 shimano) on my tri bike, and I would not hesitate to put one on my road bike. I ride in the Blue Rdge mountains and weigh 210.

I like having a wide range of useful gears on the big ring. With a 11-23 10 speed cassette i have 1-tooth jumps for most of the range. I can stay on the big ring most of the time. With a 53/39 I am shifting back and forth from ring to ring more often.

With the 34 when I go to climb a long, steep hill I have really low gears that have the same jump.

There is some minimal weight savings with the smaller rings and smaller cassette.

I have had the 50-11 gear up to 50mph on a downhill. I typically average 20+ mph on the bike leg of my tri's  (2:4X for HIM)

There is no downside to the compact for me. It's a complete myth that "compacts are for weak riders"

 

2006-06-02 12:17 PM
in reply to: #441351

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Elite
2515
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Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

Rocket Man - 2006-06-02 11:40 AM For those of you who doubt my Florida comment (ahem Suzanne....)

And what proof do we have that this is actually a picture of a road in Florida?  Looks more like somewhere in the Midwest to me. 

OK, so maybe there is a hill or two in Florida that's not man-made.

2006-06-02 12:18 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Master
1641
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Seattle, California
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

Or you could just go with a triple and really be able to bail yourself out if need be ... I actually have a triple and although I think I've only used the granny gear on a few instances it is nice to have it there in case I completely fry my legs... Although then you need new derailers and shifters, so not a great option if you already have everything geared up for a double.

Oh ya and you also lose a lot of the cool factor is you have a triple

2006-06-02 12:29 PM
in reply to: #441383

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Pro
3870
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Virginia Beach, VA
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

Interesting perspective on why to use a compact.  From what I've heard here though I don't see that it has anything to do with being a weak or strong rider.  Seems to me it's about being a smarter, more tactical rider given the purpose.  I'm not a cyclist and I don't ever expect to be involved in any sprints or even short races where having a compact would be a negative.  Like I said, my standard gearing left something to be desired this past season and with my plans for riding this bike the compact seems like the common sense option for me.  I don't need to prove anything by sticking with a bigger standard set-up.

Here's my bottom line question...can I keep my low gear (hard gear) and get more high gear (easy spinning gear) by switching from a standard 39/54 12/25 combo to a compact 11/21 or 11/23 combo? 

ChuckyFinster - 2006-06-02 1:00 PM Buddy of mine just got a new bike and had compacts put on it at no extra charge. He didn't change out the rear cassette. Needless to say he is a weak rider and because he has some ambitious goals, it makes sense for him. For you however, I wouldn't waste my time. It's just another distraction.



2006-06-02 12:39 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

Ok how about this: If in your current gearing setup, you have no problem keeping a 95-105 rpm in most cases and/or can do long/steep climbs sitting down even though the cadence might drop a bit (i.e. 80-85) then there is no real need to change it.  Or really it is just a matter of PREFERENCE?

2006-06-02 12:42 PM
in reply to: #441432

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

A 50-11 is a little higher(faster) than a 53-12. A 34-23 is about the same as a 39-25. You are not giving away anything (gear-wise) with a compact. Go to sheldonbrown.com, plug the numbers into his gear calculator and see for yourself.

I drank the compact kool-aid.

 

2006-06-02 12:47 PM
in reply to: #441344

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Daremo - 2006-06-02 9:33 AM
I just see no need for them on a road bike. I do not want to sacrifice top end on downhills (and in sprints) by going smaller than a 53.


From Rick's comment I would have to think he is one of the strongest riders on BT. But I suspect his comments on top end speed and compacts aren't going to apply to many of the riders here.

Top end speed for a standard 53/11 set of gears spinning at 90 rpm is 33.2 mph
Top end for a compact set of 50/11 gears spinning at the same 90 rpm is 31.3 mph.

I have no problem hitting a full 45 mph on my compact 50/11 set up before spinning it out going down hill.

I can spin out my 54/11 combo on my tri bike going down hill as well but in general that is a wasted set of gears for me on almost any race. 54/13 I actually use on a good day. The smaller 42 makes a good gear driving into the wind on the flat. But again the extremes (11 and 23) and the chain angles limit what I will actually use of my 10 speed cassettes.

If you look at it technically the compact would be a better use of the crank and cassete for the speed I actually ride ( and the cadence I want to carry) the majority of the time. (I average 21/23 mph and 100rpm on TTs and the local Tris)
2006-06-02 12:50 PM
in reply to: #441448

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
amiine - 2006-06-02 12:39 PM

Ok how about this: If in your current gearing setup, you have no problem keeping a 95-105 rpm in most cases and/or can do long/steep climbs sitting down even though the cadence might drop a bit (i.e. 80-85) then there is no real need to change it.  Or really it is just a matter of PREFERENCE?

If you can do that without taxing yourself (i.e., spiking your watts in order to maintain that cadence), then you certainly don't NEED to change.  The benefits of changing would be the ability to get slightly better shifting--you could go to the 11/21 and get that 18 tooth cog that Rick wants--and some marginal weight savings.  The "cost" would be the loss of some top end gearing--decide how often you take advantage of your 53/11 gear now. 

In your case (strong cyclist, short-intermediate course focus), I think it would be simply a matter of preference.

Edit:  And, FWIW, I will definately consider getting compacts for my bike if I decide to do LP next year.



Edited by JohnnyKay 2006-06-02 12:53 PM
2006-06-02 1:01 PM
in reply to: #441471

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

And, FWIW, I will definately consider getting compacts for my bike if I decide to do LP next year.

I am not doing IM anytime soon but in a few weeks I’ll be riding the entire LP course with a few friends and my coach who are racing it this year. After that I'll let you know as I might change my mind about CC  



2006-06-02 1:05 PM
in reply to: #441432

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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Here's my bottom line question...can I keep my low gear (hard gear) and get more high gear (easy spinning gear) by switching from a standard 39/54 12/25 combo to a compact 11/21 or 11/23 combo? 


Comparing a 12/25, no, on the 11/21 (more top speed but slightly less climbing ability) and yes on the 11/23 ( more climbing ability and more top speed)

Think of a 50/36 compact running a 11/23 as faster and an almost equal climber to a 53*39 with a 12/27...because that is exactly what it is.

Here is the best piece i have seen written with direct comparison graphs.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/gearing.html

If in your current gearing setup, you have no problem keeping a 95-105 rpm in most cases and/or can do long/steep climbs sitting down even though the cadence might drop a bit (i.e. 80-85) then there is no real need to change it.


Correct, no need to change to save energy. Technically you get the advantage of closer gear rations (couple of advantages, shifting and cadenece management) and lighter weight at the expense of loosing some top end.

Edited by Nob 2006-06-02 1:09 PM
2006-06-02 1:25 PM
in reply to: #441488

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Pro
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Woodstock,GA
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
amiine - 2006-06-02 2:01 PM

And, FWIW, I will definately consider getting compacts for my bike if I decide to do LP next year.

I am not doing IM anytime soon but in a few weeks I’ll be riding the entire LP course with a few friends and my coach who are racing it this year. After that I'll let you know as I might change my mind about CC  

 

Jorge,

 

It's that second loop that will get you!!

2006-06-02 1:32 PM
in reply to: #441527

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Not a Coach
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Media, PA
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Rocket Man - 2006-06-02 1:25 PM

It's that second loop that will get you!!

Yep.  That's the one I'm thinking about.

2006-06-02 2:05 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?

I should have said: entire course TWO times for the entire 112 miles >>> I am sure that 2nd loop it is going to be fun... NOT!  

The next day should be eaiser as we will only ride one loop (with 1 mile swim before and 13 miles after - can I call it a IMLP 70 )

2006-06-02 2:16 PM
in reply to: #441432

Elite
2458
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Livingston, MT
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
He kept the same cassette, so he is going to have an easier time of it. His longest ride to date is at most an hour and half in the saddle and he's planning on doing the bike leg of Silverman which is said to be very tough. In his case it makes sense. I live in a very hilly area (see Lance Chronicles when he does his training in the Santa Monica mountains, I'm in the same area) and I wouldn't consider using a compact, but then again I ride more like Ullrich than I do like Lance (I spin at 89 RPM). I can see how guys that need to spin 100+ can find a use for them.


TH3_FRB - 2006-06-02 9:29 AM

Interesting perspective on why to use a compact. From what I've heard here though I don't see that it has anything to do with being a weak or strong rider. Seems to me it's about being a smarter, more tactical rider given the purpose. I'm not a cyclist and I don't ever expect to be involved in any sprints or even short races where having a compact would be a negative. Like I said, my standard gearing left something to be desired this past season and with my plans for riding this bike the compact seems like the common sense option for me. I don't need to prove anything by sticking with a bigger standard set-up.

Here's my bottom line question...can I keep my low gear (hard gear) and get more high gear (easy spinning gear) by switching from a standard 39/54 12/25 combo to a compact 11/21 or 11/23 combo?

ChuckyFinster - 2006-06-02 1:00 PM Buddy of mine just got a new bike and had compacts put on it at no extra charge. He didn't change out the rear cassette. Needless to say he is a weak rider and because he has some ambitious goals, it makes sense for him. For you however, I wouldn't waste my time. It's just another distraction.



2006-06-02 2:36 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Cycling Guru
15135
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Oh, and f.y.i. everyone .... as far as I know, the only 10 speed 11-21 from Shimano is a Dura Ace cassette which is in the $150 range .... :eek:

I know ..... I will be picking up mine for Eagleman sometime next week.

It ain't cheap!!

(And I'm really digging myself into a hole here ....... if I don't put up a kick azz bike time at Eagleman and still have some sort of run afterwards, I'm going to have to hide my head and never show up here again .......).
2006-06-02 2:40 PM
in reply to: #441636

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Daremo - 2006-06-02 12:36 PM

Oh, and f.y.i. everyone .... as far as I know, the only 10 speed 11-21 from Shimano is a Dura Ace cassette which is in the $150 range .... :eek:


Ebay, Rick, EBAY
2006-06-02 2:44 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Cycling Guru
15135
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
True, that's what I usually do ...... (but I still get parts at cost at my old shop .... shhhhhh).
2006-06-02 2:54 PM
in reply to: #441649

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
cost!? chit...shhhuuuuuuuut up and stop whining vampire legs

Took me a couple of months searching ebay to find a 11/21 at a reasonable price. I bet it was still more than your cost!
2006-06-02 3:03 PM
in reply to: #441662

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Cycling Guru
15135
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Doubt it .... prices on EBay deals get close or better sometimes.


2006-06-02 3:16 PM
in reply to: #441344

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Pro
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Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Daremo - 2006-06-02 9:33 AM

amiine - 2006-06-02 11:02 AM
Rick, why you don’t like the CC?


I just see no need for them on a road bike. I do not want to sacrifice top end on downhills (and in sprints) by going smaller than a 53.

And yes, I spin out a 53/11 on decent downhills, and have in sprints as well (okay, I used to, can't say that I can now ).

I can climb everything local with the 39/23, including long climbs. And in my youth I would climb those same hills with a 42/21 (used to run a 53/42 back in the day).

I already maintain 100 - 110 cadence normally and using that with a 53/17 will put me at 25+ mph, which is perfect for flat TT's.

As I said, the majority of the races we do are not in the Alps (regarding the Giro and Tour comments). If for some reason I did want lower gearing, I'd (basically never) opt for an 11 - 25 as my choice. If I ever do the Monaco 70.3, I'll consider using that cassette.


Ditto for me, expect change "39/23" to "39/25", "youth" to "winter" and "42/21" to "42/23" in the following sentence:
I can climb everything local with the 39/23, including long climbs. And in my youth I would climb those same hills with a 42/21 (used to run a 53/42 back in the day).

I need my biggest gear 39/25 for sprints and downhills. I have 650 wheels though.

Joel do you really need a 27? I don't see what the big deal is though. Buy the compact crank and you can always swap it out if you need to. It's just your training bike though so you probably won't need to.

Jen
2006-06-02 3:23 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
sorry dbl post

Edited by Nob 2006-06-02 3:24 PM
2006-06-02 3:23 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
Running a 650 wheel is like running a compact crank..... you have a lot more climbing ability with less effort at the same gear ratios.


2006-06-02 3:24 PM
in reply to: #440866

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Pro
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Vancouver, BC
Subject: RE: Compact cranks?
I know, but I don't have much choice. I'm so friggin short.

However my winter bike has 700 wheels. I did change the 42 though. Shhh... don't tell.
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