General Discussion Triathlon Talk » It's official, Lance is out of Ironman.. Rss Feed  
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2012-06-16 9:51 AM

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Subject: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..


2012-06-16 9:53 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..

Rev3 snatch him up! Show there is an option to IM.

 

2012-06-16 9:56 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
He should go do Roth.
2012-06-16 10:00 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
What he does for fun is his business. What he wanted was to race the Championship with the top in the sport. That is what I wanted to see too. Oh well... his window to be competitive is closing. Even if he can race next year... it's closing.
2012-06-16 10:25 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
Well the other wrinkle is that they are not responding to Lance (and his team) regarding what they want from him.  BS.  Lance Rules.
2012-06-16 10:33 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
BS!!!!......Rev or HITS should start coming up with some money and attract lance and others. This may be their one and only chance to compete with WTC.


2012-06-16 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
Lance has enough backing and contacts he should start his OWN tri series for pros that competes against the WTC races. 
2012-06-16 11:03 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
Thats sad.  I do hope he keeps doing iron distance triathlon.  Roth or Rev and maybe HITS in the future (they dont have many pros at the moment right?).  It will still be exciting to see him go against the best.
2012-06-16 11:14 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
I suspect WTC has realized that their policy is unfair and cedes too much control to the anti-doping organizations, but doesn't want to look like they're changing the policy just for Lance.

I wouldn't be surprised if they modified it for next season, after Kona.
2012-06-16 11:17 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
tjh - 2012-06-16 10:14 AM

I suspect WTC has realized that their policy is unfair and cedes too much control to the anti-doping organizations, but doesn't want to look like they're changing the policy just for Lance.

I wouldn't be surprised if they modified it for next season, after Kona.


I think WTC was twisting itself into knots trying to figure out a way to allow him to race keeping the spirit of their rule but at the end of the day, their lawyers likely won the argument. There must be liability exposure somewhere in here.
2012-06-16 11:38 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
I am sure millions of endorsement dollars will be lost by WTC with lance out...and I bet NBC goes back to their regular tv plan.


2012-06-16 11:38 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
one might think that the private equity firm that owns Ironman would step in.  Having Lance around and in IM must boost the profit potential of the events (at least I would think).  This along with the Livestrong partnership would likely make the IM brand more attractive to potential buyers.  My personal feeling here, is to keep the events as profitable as possible thereby expanding the sport into more households and increasing participation enough to support new venues like Lake Tahoe and Cabo.  Just think of the eyeballs NBC lost on their expanded and more current coverage of the Kona event.  As a former politician once said, "there's going to be a giant sucking sound of dollars going elsewhere."  Lawyers who do not have an equity stake often find objections to issues at hand that are not in the best interest of stake holders.  I know if I was part of the controlling partnership, I would be stepping up to keep the cash flow going at as high a rate as possible, at least until some one can produce absolute proof the Lance accusations are true.
2012-06-16 11:45 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
blues2play - 2012-06-16 10:38 AM

one might think that the private equity firm that owns Ironman would step in.  Having Lance around and in IM must boost the profit potential of the events (at least I would think).  This along with the Livestrong partnership would likely make the IM brand more attractive to potential buyers.  My personal feeling here, is to keep the events as profitable as possible thereby expanding the sport into more households and increasing participation enough to support new venues like Lake Tahoe and Cabo.  Just think of the eyeballs NBC lost on their expanded and more current coverage of the Kona event.  As a former politician once said, "there's going to be a giant sucking sound of dollars going elsewhere."  Lawyers who do not have an equity stake often find objections to issues at hand that are not in the best interest of stake holders.  I know if I was part of the controlling partnership, I would be stepping up to keep the cash flow going at as high a rate as possible, at least until some one can produce absolute proof the Lance accusations are true.


I agree and said so much in other threads. The only way this went down the way it did was WTC's lawyers discovered liability risk if they altered the rule or allowed him to race.
2012-06-16 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..

That's too bad, would love to have seen him continue on his Ironman journey to see where it would have gone.

I read the USADA letter, and was glad to see that there was an 8-year statute of limitations on their authority. Since his last TDF win was in 2005, I'm assuming that all but one or two of his wins would be safe. I'd hate to see even that happen. I don't know if he doped, but hate to think that witness testimony alone could strip even one of his TDF victories.

That to me is the bigger story than Ironman. To me, the TDF wins are much more important than an IM World Championship. Especially since I think it was a longshot that he could ever win at Kona.

2012-06-16 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..

bryancd - 2012-06-16 10:56 AM He should go do Roth.

I would like to see that. I think he would do pretty well

2012-06-16 12:25 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
I cannot fathom what liability they discovered.  If he races and wins and is later proven guilty of whatever, they strip him of the that title.  No other athletes are harmed.  Runner up becomes the new winner and its all good.  Has this not happened before in Olympic track and field and pro cycling?  I think WTC should consult with Bryan France (I know I may be going off in the deep end here), but he runs NASCAR in the sole interest of NASCAR--a heavily sponsorship dependent sport.  Many times when an existing rule does not benefit the organization and racing, they have changed it on the fly-for the next week's events.  Bryan, you are much more "up" on the whole IM thing than I will ever be.  How will you be harmed if LA is racing Kona?


2012-06-16 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..

Honest question, has any other triathlete been banned mid-season from WTC events for doping allegations (nevermind allegations from 7 years ago...)? This must be exceedingly rare.

Lance can go race in other series, but there just won't be the same level of competition. It will be a matter of showing up and collecting a paycheck. Of course, saying that now, we had Macca and Maik Twelsiek at the local event last year in Maple Grove, MN, and Chris Legh has come to another local race (albeit with 1500 participants) for the last 3-5 years in a row.

2012-06-16 1:03 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
Do you think super fan boys will boycott IM?
2012-06-16 1:03 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
rdailey1 - 2012-06-16 1:36 PM

Honest question, has any other triathlete been banned mid-season from WTC events for doping allegations (nevermind allegations from 7 years ago...)? This must be exceedingly rare.

Lance can go race in other series, but there just won't be the same level of competition. It will be a matter of showing up and collecting a paycheck. Of course, saying that now, we had Macca and Maik Twelsiek at the local event last year in Maple Grove, MN, and Chris Legh has come to another local race (albeit with 1500 participants) for the last 3-5 years in a row.

Correct me if I'm wrong,but I believe Michael Weiss was banned in the same circumstances as Lance.

2012-06-16 1:31 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
Maybe in the long run if Lance turns to either REV3 or HITS it would help one of them to become just as popular as the WCT. Could even that he could bring other pros over so they can race against them. One can always hope.
2012-06-16 1:49 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
suefesta - 2012-06-16 2:31 PMMaybe in the long run if Lance turns to either REV3 or HITS it would help one of them to become just as popular as the WCT. Could even that he could bring other pros over so they can race against them. One can always hope.
There' not enough longevity in the "Lance thing" to make anything a long run. This was a one year, maybe two as far as him making a legitimate challenge and creating enough buzz for the networks to capitalize on it. I like the Rev3 events for sure, but I don't really think he has an interest in doing anything other than what he was doing...trying to be relevant for Kona. Too bad this happened.


2012-06-16 2:07 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..

Selfishly, this is sad for me because the whole buildup for Kona was going to be fantastic. I'll still watch and hope for a good race because there really are a lot of guys who will contend, but it will be a let down wondering "what if."

Regarding LA's plans for other races, I actually don't think that matters. From what I've been able to tell, admittedly from a looooong way away and zero inside knowledge, is he was doing this to compete at Kona. Period. Now that Kona is gone, I think he's done. My guess is he walks away and doesn't do Rev3 or anything else. Maybe a local race here and there, but nothing major. What's the point? None of that gets him to Kona.

I think the only circumstance where he might do more high-profile triathlons is if the USADA investigation fails, he is allowed back in to WTC next year, and still has the desire to crank it up again. I would assume he would have sufficient motivation to shove it in the face of USADA, but it's another year later, he'll be another year older, and he might just say, screw it. 

2012-06-16 2:32 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..

I also have a hard time seeing what "liability" WTC would incur by changing their policy.  The anti-doping policy may be part of their contracts with sponsors but I find it hard to believe that sponsors would be opposed to having Lance race while he's under investigation.  I think it's mainly an appearance thing, WTC doesn't want to look like they're just catering to Lance.

The fundamental problem with WTC's current policy, Lance or no Lance, is that it allows any anti-doping body anywhere to effectively ban any athlete from WTC competition with no due process burden simply by opening an investigation, and maintain that ban indefinitely by declining to close the investigation.  That's too much power to but in the hands of the anti-doping agencies--it's not unreasonable or lax on doping to ask that they prove their case before an athlete is sanctioned. 

2012-06-16 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
tjh - 2012-06-16 2:32 PM

I also have a hard time seeing what "liability" WTC would incur by changing their policy.  The anti-doping policy may be part of their contracts with sponsors but I find it hard to believe that sponsors would be opposed to having Lance race while he's under investigation.  I think it's mainly an appearance thing, WTC doesn't want to look like they're just catering to Lance.

The fundamental problem with WTC's current policy, Lance or no Lance, is that it allows any anti-doping body anywhere to effectively ban any athlete from WTC competition with no due process burden simply by opening an investigation, and maintain that ban indefinitely by declining to close the investigation.  That's too much power to but in the hands of the anti-doping agencies--it's not unreasonable or lax on doping to ask that they prove their case before an athlete is sanctioned. 

That's how I feel about it too.  This is such a great example...someone decides to open an investigation into an athlete that has never tested positive...thus preventing him from competing.  I have no idea whether he's guilty or not and I won't even speculate.  But it stinks that just because "someone says he did something" he can't continue to compete.

I would support a change in policy that maybe said something like "banned once a positive sample is found" but for a simple investigation based on heresay and without a positive sample a person should be innocent until proven guilty.  What's to stop any competitor from telling USADA they thought "so and so" doped so USADA will open an investigation and thus eliminating the competition....

2012-06-16 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: It's official, Lance is out of Ironman..
tjh - 2012-06-16 1:32 PM

I also have a hard time seeing what "liability" WTC would incur by changing their policy.  The anti-doping policy may be part of their contracts with sponsors but I find it hard to believe that sponsors would be opposed to having Lance race while he's under investigation.  I think it's mainly an appearance thing, WTC doesn't want to look like they're just catering to Lance.

The fundamental problem with WTC's current policy, Lance or no Lance, is that it allows any anti-doping body anywhere to effectively ban any athlete from WTC competition with no due process burden simply by opening an investigation, and maintain that ban indefinitely by declining to close the investigation.  That's too much power to but in the hands of the anti-doping agencies--it's not unreasonable or lax on doping to ask that they prove their case before an athlete is sanctioned. 



They suspended Weiss last year using the same rule and the same set of circumstances. Weiss could easily turn around and sue them for lost income if they let Lance continue.
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