General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Nutrition on the run? Rss Feed  
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2012-06-27 9:51 PM

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Subject: Nutrition on the run?

Hey everyone, 

I'm training for IM Florida in November and I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do for run nutrition. For the bike I'm just using custom Infinit (still tweaking it) currently at 274 cal per hour. But I have no idea what to use for the run. I don't really like gels, (haven't tried one that i've like) I can stomach them but I prefer not to use them. Should I try IM Preform since it's what on the course(does this provide enough)? Or should I just HTFU and use the gels. Other suggestions? 

Also, how are you carrying nutrition on long runs? I'm think of running loops and have a bottle stached at the start, but that doesn't really help with practicing nutrition for the race. 

I might just be over thinking this. 

 

Edit: I also been notice I'm having a lot of salt crystals on me after I finish a run (but then again I'm running in 90+ heat might have something to do with that) Which leads me to my next question how do I know if I need more sodium intake on the run. Can you have to much sodium? 



Edited by chris-alfonso 2012-06-27 9:56 PM


2012-06-27 10:33 PM
in reply to: #4284040

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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

What about Shot Bloks and other types of Gumy type nutrition.  There are also Stinger Waffers that are pretty tasty but you'll need water or liquid to wash them down.  Have you thought about using gels (I have used Hammer Gel) with adding some water to make it more like a heavier liquid form and not so gel like?  I do this when I use a flask and it is much easier to take and get out of the flask.  I like gels anyway but it might help some.

 

 

2012-06-28 4:11 AM
in reply to: #4284040

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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
chris-alfonso - 2012-06-27 10:51 PM

Edit: I also been notice I'm having a lot of salt crystals on me after I finish a run (but then again I'm running in 90+ heat might have something to do with that) Which leads me to my next question how do I know if I need more sodium intake on the run. Can you have to much sodium? 

Your body adjusts the salt in your sweat to keep the correct amount of salt to water ratio in the body.  Excess salt in the body equals excess salt in the sweat. 

Can you have to much sodium?  Yes, but you need to take in a lot of sodium for something bad to happen. 

The salt reserves in your body plus the infinit is plenty of salt for an Ironman.

2012-06-28 5:07 AM
in reply to: #4284040

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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

have you tried gu's before?  they are the only kind of gel I can handle, so I'm quite happy they are now the sponsor for Ironman.

My run plan is a gu and a salt tab a miles 2, 6, 10, 14, 18, 22  600 calories over approximately 5 hours.  Coke if needed.

There is no reason why IM Perform wouldn't work nutritionally, but there are a lot of people that can't stomache it.  Myself included.  I would buy a container of the mix and try it out.  I think it is the orange mango on the run course.

2012-06-28 7:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

Try Perform.  I would also plan to take a few gels with water.

If I take nutrition/hydration on a long run, I wear a belt with bottles attached (mine's an Amphipod, but Fuel Belt or whatever) and put a couple gels in the belt's pouch or in a pocket.

2012-06-28 7:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

I have a friend who had a hard time stomaching gu so she carried a gu flask with her that had 5 gu's in it and then really watered it down and sipped it throughout.

 

The reality is that whatever you train with, soooo many people have stomach issues during the actual race and by the time the run comes along, you end up taking whatever sounds good at the time.  On my training runs I took a sip of water, and a sip of perform every mile, then a gu every 4 miles.  During my IM last weeked I ended up carrying water with me and sipping on it all the time then while walking through each aide station I took some coke, and perform, then at every 3rd I took as much of a gu as I could handle.  Usuallly ended up being about 3/4 of one.  And I didn't bonk.  I think the most important thing you can do is stick with your nutrition on the bike, it will help you with the run.  Not sure if 274 calories is enough.  I am a 140lb female, finished the bike in just over 7 hours, and took about 325 each hour.



2012-06-28 7:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
Find out what is on the course and practice with that: for example, if they are using Gu then buy a bunch and see if they work for you. Or try things like pretzels/oranges/bananas/etc

The IM run is a moving buffet so you always have food right in front of you (every mile at least). Train with what is on the course and you will not have to worry about carrying a bunch of nutrition. Besdes, we're paying $700 to enter a race, you might as well take what they have for you on race day!
2012-06-28 8:12 AM
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2012-06-28 8:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

I've tried gu before but I never really found a flavor i liked and I have a problem on how it feels going down, it to slimy. If that makes any sense. I'm going to give it a go down with a some water. Do they stock specific flavor at the aid stations, cuz i don't want to start training with flavor x and y and find out they only have a, b and c. 

Is 274 calories not enough? I thought the avg range was between 250-300 per hour on the bike. I'm a 140lb male and I hopefully plan to finish in between 6-6.5 range. 

2012-06-28 8:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
chris-alfonso - 2012-06-28 9:35 AM

I've tried gu before but I never really found a flavor i liked and I have a problem on how it feels going down, it to slimy. If that makes any sense. I'm going to give it a go down with a some water. Do they stock specific flavor at the aid stations, cuz i don't want to start training with flavor x and y and find out they only have a, b and c. 

Is 274 calories not enough? I thought the avg range was between 250-300 per hour on the bike. I'm a 140lb male and I hopefully plan to finish in between 6-6.5 range. 



They normally have a variety of flavors. IMO the flavor doesn't matter, they are all pretty terrible, but if the alternative is bonking on the side of the road, I'll take the gel. Either way, if all else fails, email the race director and they would likely be able to tell you what flavors they will have (I know they do this with the Perform drink options).

275 calories would probably be enough, again its very individualized. I don't go with a straight plan: I just eat when I am hungry/take a gel every 2-3 miles instead of focusing on calories per hour.

What do you mean by 6-6.5 range?

I think that in the end, you will have plenty of opportunities to practice race day nutrition as November approaches. Lots of 4+ hour rides/bricks will let you experiment with nutrition to see what works for you.
2012-06-28 9:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
15step - 2012-06-28 9:59 AM
chris-alfonso - 2012-06-28 9:35 AM

I've tried gu before but I never really found a flavor i liked and I have a problem on how it feels going down, it to slimy. If that makes any sense. I'm going to give it a go down with a some water. Do they stock specific flavor at the aid stations, cuz i don't want to start training with flavor x and y and find out they only have a, b and c. 

Is 274 calories not enough? I thought the avg range was between 250-300 per hour on the bike. I'm a 140lb male and I hopefully plan to finish in between 6-6.5 range. 

They normally have a variety of flavors. IMO the flavor doesn't matter, they are all pretty terrible, but if the alternative is bonking on the side of the road, I'll take the gel. Either way, if all else fails, email the race director and they would likely be able to tell you what flavors they will have (I know they do this with the Perform drink options). 275 calories would probably be enough, again its very individualized. I don't go with a straight plan: I just eat when I am hungry/take a gel every 2-3 miles instead of focusing on calories per hour. What do you mean by 6-6.5 range? I think that in the end, you will have plenty of opportunities to practice race day nutrition as November approaches. Lots of 4+ hour rides/bricks will let you experiment with nutrition to see what works for you.

The 6-6.5 range was in response to kristine that she said 275 might be to little since she take 325 per hour on the bike.

I think I'm going to go pick up some gels this weekend and start figuring stuff out along with some sort of water carrying system. 



2012-06-28 9:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
newyorkfan21 - 2012-06-28 9:12 AM

IMFL run is flat and at that time of the year it's not blazing hot.  Nutrition is a individual thing/what I can consume and what you can consume is 2 different things so just try out different option when you go for a long run.  Don't overthink it.

 

For example for me at IMFL I took in 2 gels and drank flat coke at every aid station....that was it.  Maybe 2-3 cups of water.  

 

BTW Infinit is a very good product def use that on the bike



Just curious.... did you really take 2 gels + coke at every aid station - wouldn't that be something like 250 calories every mile on the run? Assuming (for sake of easy calculation) a 10 min mile, that would be like 1500 calories per hour -- that seems like an awful lot... I don't think there's any way I could stomach that....

I haven't done a full IM yet, but at HIM distance, I get by pretty well on ~ 200 +/- calories per hour on the bike, and water + sports drink @ aid stations on the run. Ironman Perform (according to the label) provides 70 calories per 8 oz serving. The cup you get at an aid station might be something like 50 calories. Assuming that 10 min/mile pace again, one cup of Perform (plus water if you want/need it) at every aid station would give you about 300 calories per hour. For me that would be plenty (or at least seems to be from what I see in training), but, again, everyone is different, and you should experiment and find out what works for you. Easiest thing would be to be able to "live off the course" and use whatever is being offered at aid stations, so if you can, try using those products in training.
2012-06-28 9:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
chris-alfonso - 2012-06-28 9:35 AM

I've tried gu before but I never really found a flavor i liked and I have a problem on how it feels going down, it to slimy. If that makes any sense. I'm going to give it a go down with a some water. Do they stock specific flavor at the aid stations, cuz i don't want to start training with flavor x and y and find out they only have a, b and c. 

Is 274 calories not enough? I thought the avg range was between 250-300 per hour on the bike. I'm a 140lb male and I hopefully plan to finish in between 6-6.5 range. 



Again, finding out how much nutrition you need will take some experimentation. I've come around to thinking that a lot of people probably overdo their nutrition out of fear of "bonking" and end up with GI issues... I'm a female in the mid 140's and like I said, 200 +/- calories per hour works pretty well for me on the bike....
2012-06-28 10:11 AM
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Edited by newyorkfan21 2012-06-28 10:12 AM
2012-06-28 10:31 AM
in reply to: #4284040

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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

This is what I carried during the run.  It's small, easy to carry, and I used the pouch to carry my salt tabs.  I did have to fill it up about every other aide station but it only took a second.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Direction-Fastdraw-10-Ounce-Hand-held/dp/B004K6OFTW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340897164&sr=8-1&keywords=hand+held+hydration+bottles

2012-06-28 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
newyorkfan21 - 2012-06-28 11:11 AM

jsnowash - 2012-06-28 9:05 AM
newyorkfan21 - 2012-06-28 9:12 AM

IMFL run is flat and at that time of the year it's not blazing hot.  Nutrition is a individual thing/what I can consume and what you can consume is 2 different things so just try out different option when you go for a long run.  Don't overthink it.

 

For example for me at IMFL I took in a TOTAL of 2 gels and drank flat coke at every aid station....that was it.  Maybe 2-3 cups of water.  

 

BTW Infinit is a very good product def use that on the bike

Just curious.... did you really take 2 gels + coke at every aid station - wouldn't that be something like 250 calories every mile on the run? Assuming (for sake of easy calculation) a 10 min mile, that would be like 1500 calories per hour -- that seems like an awful lot... I don't think there's any way I could stomach that.... I haven't done a full IM yet, but at HIM distance, I get by pretty well on ~ 200 +/- calories per hour on the bike, and water + sports drink @ aid stations on the run. Ironman Perform (according to the label) provides 70 calories per 8 oz serving. The cup you get at an aid station might be something like 50 calories. Assuming that 10 min/mile pace again, one cup of Perform (plus water if you want/need it) at every aid station would give you about 300 calories per hour. For me that would be plenty (or at least seems to be from what I see in training), but, again, everyone is different, and you should experiment and find out what works for you. Easiest thing would be to be able to "live off the course" and use whatever is being offered at aid stations, so if you can, try using those products in training.

 

sorry let me fix that.  I took a total of 2 gels the whole IM marathon but drank flat coke at every aid station.  My bad



That makes more sense!!


2012-06-28 1:25 PM
in reply to: #4284040

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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

The OP is getting answers to two different questions here:

1) For long runs in TRAINING how should you hydrate/carry nutrition?

2) What should my nutrition be for the run during IMFL?

At the surface they may seem like the same question but in reality they are not. I have coached a lot of IM athletes and almost to a person (along with my own experiences at the distance) have found that by the time you get to the run you want anything but a gel/Perform/sports nutrition. What is most likely going to happen is that you are going to want the fruit (oranges/bananas/grapes), cookies, pretzels, coke, and chicken broth (the nectar of the gods if you ask me) instead and that is fine.

It isn't really practical to carry all of the above mentioned items on a long run and if you get down to it a run of ~1.5 to 2 hours you can do on just water so for a 3 hour long run in training a couple of gels or shot blocks along with water should suffice.

In order to train your body to take the alternative foods at the aid stations a good idea is to set up your own aid station with those items at your car and run an out and back or looped course where you pass every 2 miles or so. Do this for your brick runs so your body is already depleted going into the run and you will be running at a HR/pace closer to what your actual race pace will be. This will give you an idea of how those pretzels or coke will sit on your stomach. I don't recommend treating the run like a trip to Golden Corral, stuffing that many calories down will lead to some very unplesant GI issues later on in the run. Also as a rule of thumb, once you switch to coke then don't try to switch back to Perform or water. It generally doesn't end well!

 

 

2012-06-28 2:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?
What Rocket Man suggests is a great idea (about setting up your own pit stops). I have done this before on a 2-3 mile loop and it works like a charm. Sure it might seem like more work, but its pretty beneficial if you want to know what to expect for the race.
2012-06-28 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition on the run?

kristine25 - 2012-06-28 8:57 AM

...

The reality is that whatever you train with, soooo many people have stomach issues during the actual race and by the time the run comes along, you end up taking whatever sounds good at the time.  

... 

 +1

 

Rocket Man - 2012-06-28 2:25 PM

The OP is getting answers to two different questions here:

1) For long runs in TRAINING how should you hydrate/carry nutrition?

2) What should my nutrition be for the run during IMFL?

At the surface they may seem like the same question but in reality they are not. I have coached a lot of IM athletes and almost to a person (along with my own experiences at the distance) have found that by the time you get to the run you want anything but a gel/Perform/sports nutrition. What is most likely going to happen is that you are going to want the fruit (oranges/bananas/grapes), cookies, pretzels, coke, and chicken broth (the nectar of the gods if you ask me) instead and that is fine.

It isn't really practical to carry all of the above mentioned items on a long run and if you get down to it a run of ~1.5 to 2 hours you can do on just water so for a 3 hour long run in training a couple of gels or shot blocks along with water should suffice.

In order to train your body to take the alternative foods at the aid stations a good idea is to set up your own aid station with those items at your car and run an out and back or looped course where you pass every 2 miles or so. Do this for your brick runs so your body is already depleted going into the run and you will be running at a HR/pace closer to what your actual race pace will be. This will give you an idea of how those pretzels or coke will sit on your stomach. I don't recommend treating the run like a trip to Golden Corral, stuffing that many calories down will lead to some very unplesant GI issues later on in the run. Also as a rule of thumb, once you switch to coke then don't try to switch back to Perform or water. It generally doesn't end well!

+1

I've never trained with chicken broth, but I've taken it in a couple of marathons and one IM and it's awesome.

As for "I don't like certain flavors"... HTFU!  Experiment with several during training.  Learn which 3-4 that you can stand, and any that you will really gag if you eat.  Be sure to try green apple, yum!  In reality, if you're feeling like you're fading, at mile 16, you'll suck down any flavor they have.  You can chase it with water, or a drink with flavor.

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