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2012-07-30 9:23 AM

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Master
3195
20001000100252525
Just South of Boston
Subject: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
Oh, just another day in paradise....The wife & I are thinking about installing a fence around the perimeter of our yard as we have a new dog, and also want to do some work in improving some parts that are kind of ugly at the moment. So before we did anything, we had a surveyour come out and layout the property boundaries with stakes, etc. Turns out we own a bit more into the adjacent neighbors' yards on 2 differnet sides. One guy doesn't care about the fence, as he's moving. The other side, however isn't so thrilled. The property line is about 3 feet further into their yard than they had acknowledged, and cuts right through some plantings they have. They've known this was coming for a while, but having that hot pink stake declaring where the line is seems to have brought a bit more of a reality to it.

We are very friendly with these folks, and have known them for several years. We get along well, and there's never been any problems, so there isn't any history of acrimony at all. A few days ago, the wife sends us an email asking if we could get together to talk about what "we" (the royal 'we') were going to do about the fence.

So yesterday we stop by and discuss this with them. Since this fence is going to cost us a ton of money (hilly/rocky area making install costs $$$, plus the total fence is nearly 300') we are getting estimates for a 6' cedar stockade fence. They nearly lost their minds when we told them this, and that barring a lottery win, its what we're going to do. They (the wife in particular) was getting a bit worked up saying they were hoping to keep it a 'green' fence, and asked if we'd do a 6' wrough iron type fence (they'd split cost) and they could grow vines on it so it would still be priviate, but wouldn't be, well, a cedar stockade fence. She actually had the cajones to say we shouldn't sign any contracts or get install dates until we speak to her about our final plans.  In the end, I just told her our plan is to do the stockade, and we'd think about it, but no guarantees. 

My wife & I think this not going to end well. Sure, they are going to get a fence stuck where they probably don't want it, but heck, I'm paying taxes on land they are currently using for their own purposes, and that time is up. I asked them 3 months ago to remove some planters they had in the corner closest to them (the over grown, ugly but-soon-to-be renovated section) but that hasn't happened yet. I did say we'd give them fair warning on when it was going to happen so they could take whatever plants they wanted.

Regardless, we'll likely just go with our plan and let the chips fall where they may. Oh, the joys of life in suburbia.


2012-07-30 9:27 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Champion
16743
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Somewhere I can be nekidd
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems

I live in the middle of nowhere, and most of my neighbors are related, so this is not a problem I should ever have.

I think you would most likely want to keep the fence back a few feet from the property line, instead of putting the fence right on it. That gives you clear ownership of the fence (neighbors do not have a say in it), and you have some area that is yours to be on to mow, and do repairs if necessary.

I believe there have been a few threads here about nasty fence and neighbor issues. You may want to do a search for them. You may also want to check what local laws and regulations are concerning ownership, boundaries, and such.

Good luck!



Edited by ironannekidd 2012-07-30 9:29 AM
2012-07-30 9:28 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Master
2504
2000500
Southwest Iowa
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
Good luck with that.  I put my fence in almost 4' inside the property line, so I could mow on the outside and take care of that part, so the neighbors wouln't have to deal with any of the trimming.  I didn't ask them about putting up a fence, I did it, because I needed to for my insurance purposes of my water feature and a planned above ground pool.  Much better for us
2012-07-30 9:33 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Pro
4313
20002000100100100
McKinney, TX
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems


Do you have a home owners association?

We do...and while it sucks sometimes, they might be one to go to in this.


2012-07-30 9:41 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Master
3195
20001000100252525
Just South of Boston
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
No homeowners assoc.

We've already checked w/ the building inspector, and the only requirements are keep it 6' or under, and on your own property, otherwise, do as you please.

We'll  likely put the fence at least a foot inside the line
2012-07-30 9:45 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Champion
16151
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Checkin' out the podium girls
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
I have an aluminum fence around our pool. Looks great after 8 years, but some of the paint is fading in color. DO NOT put this in yourself!!! Such a PIA because you must put those poles at 6 ft top dead center apart and, as you know, digging 42 inch deep holes in New England means hitting huge rock obstacles. That was a total PIA to get done. It's nice now that it's done, but it was a huge amount of work.

Also, some of the screws holding rails to posts have broken due to freeze / thaw cycles and contraction of the materials. And there's no easy way to replace the screws apart from drilling out the old ones, buying new, and painting them to match the fence color. Other than that, zero maintainence issues.

I bought mine from these guys. I did qualify for free shipping as mine was a big enough order. I imagine yours is too. http://www.discountfence.com/



Edited by pitt83 2012-07-30 9:48 AM


2012-07-30 10:43 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Expert
1544
100050025
Alexandria, MN
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
How much do you trust the survey that was done?  It sounds like this certainly has the potential to get ugly, so the first, easiest thing you can do is make 100% sure when the fence goes up it is well on your property.  We recently put up a fence a couple years ago at our old house, and we had severe problems before and after with the neighbor, so when I installed the fence I was sure that it was a good 6 inches on our side of the property line therefore neither the fence nor the post footings were close to their actual property.
2012-07-30 10:50 AM
in reply to: #4337162

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Champion
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Checkin' out the podium girls
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
Climbinggonzo - 2012-07-30 11:43 AM

How much do you trust the survey that was done?  It sounds like this certainly has the potential to get ugly, so the first, easiest thing you can do is make 100% sure when the fence goes up it is well on your property.  We recently put up a fence a couple years ago at our old house, and we had severe problems before and after with the neighbor, so when I installed the fence I was sure that it was a good 6 inches on our side of the property line therefore neither the fence nor the post footings were close to their actual property.


Many towns have GIS survey data available on-line. This is usually superimposable with a sattelite view. I wouldn't use that for first pass, but would cross check taht the surveyor was correct.
2012-07-30 11:02 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Elite
3277
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Minnetonka
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems

I think in the end, it's your yard and your fence.  Our neighbors have a fence running between our two side yards.  we are also all very friendly, but one day he calls me and asks if I want to have my side of the fence stained.  It would cost me about $750.00.  I just said that I wasn't aware that I had a fence...  Something else to think about, "Their" side of the fence..

 

Good luck..

2012-07-30 11:39 AM
in reply to: #4336953

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Resident Curmudgeon
25290
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The Road Back
Gold member
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
Your neighbors can have a say-so on the type of fence that gets installed only if they're willing to pay the additional cost, or, if you're feeling especially neighborly, half of the cost.
2012-07-30 12:02 PM
in reply to: #4336963

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
ironannekidd - 2012-07-30 10:27 AM

I live in the middle of nowhere, and most of my neighbors are related, so this is not a problem I should ever have.

I think you would most likely want to keep the fence back a few feet from the property line, instead of putting the fence right on it. That gives you clear ownership of the fence (neighbors do not have a say in it), and you have some area that is yours to be on to mow, and do repairs if necessary.

I develop projects in the middle of nowhere for a living (Transmission, Wind, Solar Energy, etc).  You'd be surprised what happens when we survey for a project and find out that 100 foot/10 foot corner actually belongs to the cousin who owns the plot to the north.  We see some huge fights break out.  Our leases usually resolve the issue pretty quickly.  The surveyors are almost never wrong.  They have to find a marker that was put in to identify the points.  Sometimes a tree, sometimes a metal marker.  Depending on where you live, the parcels could be irregular shaped or could be geometrically shaped and there's an absolute reason for the line to be where it is. 

If you allow them to keep "using" their 3 foot wide area, they may be able to claim some sort of "squatter's rights" over that section because you knowingly allowed them to use it. 

In my estimation, you can do one of three things:

1) Build the fence where the line is and p-off your neighbors.

2) they can buy the area in dispute from you for fair market value (otherwise, there's tax implications for you both). Or they can lease it at $1 per year.  They admit it's yours, they pay a nominal amount.

or 3) you can set the fence back and allow them to use the area.  Check with an attorney about the rules surrounding their "use" and some eventual claim.  You never know when someone's going to want to place a Natural Gas pipeline under your neighborhood and those 3-6 feet could be really important because the gas company was told to place the line 1/2 on one parcel and 1/2 on the other.  It happens enough to be aware of it.

Interesting off-topic-side-note on surveying...  There was a story when I lived in Maryland of a guy who we'll call Bill.  He wanted to put in a fence so he figured instead of hiring a survey company, he'd try to find the markers and use a plum line.  His property abutted some old-growth forest and was on the edge of the township so he figured this would be easy.  He found two markers buried in the ground, one that had markings identifying the Surveyor: George Washington, 1750.  "Bill" measured it out and went to a machinist to find a similar piece of metal that he could place in the ground and replaced the GW marker with a new one. The old marker now sits over the fireplace in his house... No idea the validity of that story, but the marker looks pretty cool...



2012-07-30 12:39 PM
in reply to: #4336953

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Veteran
1019
1000
St. Louis
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems

You should really try to negotiate with your neighbor for two reasons.  The first, good neighbors are priceless.  The second, while they can't "technically" stop you from building a fence one foot within your property, they basically can.  Pretty much every local code in the US will require that you build the fence with the clean side out (posts and rails on your side of the fence), and to build that you will need access to the outside of the fence.  If they really want to push the issue, they can deny you permission to step on their property to build the fence.  Then your only option would be to move the fence far enough in that you have a strip of your own property to stand on during construction.  Maybe 2'?  After that, as already mentioned, if they're ticked off enough they can turn that 2' of land in to a real headache for you.

Go out and get estimates of both a cedar fence and either a decorative steel or aluminum fence (wrought iron is way too expensive to build and to maintain) and show it to them.  Steel is going to cost about twice as much, so if they're willing to pay half of the whole fence then you're not out anything.  Conversely, they might understand how expensive what they asking you to do is, and come to the realization that cedar isn't so bad.

2012-07-30 1:06 PM
in reply to: #4336953

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Master
3205
20001000100100
ann arbor, michigan
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
This thread was an interesting read about fences and neighbor issues (at least for me).

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
2012-07-30 6:18 PM
in reply to: #4337465

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Elite
3972
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Reno
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
kevin_trapp - 2012-07-30 12:39 PM

You should really try to negotiate with your neighbor for two reasons.  The first, good neighbors are priceless.  The second, while they can't "technically" stop you from building a fence one foot within your property, they basically can.  Pretty much every local code in the US will require that you build the fence with the clean side out (posts and rails on your side of the fence), and to build that you will need access to the outside of the fence.  If they really want to push the issue, they can deny you permission to step on their property to build the fence.  Then your only option would be to move the fence far enough in that you have a strip of your own property to stand on during construction.  Maybe 2'?  After that, as already mentioned, if they're ticked off enough they can turn that 2' of land in to a real headache for you.

Go out and get estimates of both a cedar fence and either a decorative steel or aluminum fence (wrought iron is way too expensive to build and to maintain) and show it to them.  Steel is going to cost about twice as much, so if they're willing to pay half of the whole fence then you're not out anything.  Conversely, they might understand how expensive what they asking you to do is, and come to the realization that cedar isn't so bad.

I agree
2012-07-30 7:08 PM
in reply to: #4336953

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Master
2447
200010010010010025
White Oak, Texas
Subject: RE: Fence installations & neighbor potential problems
Sell them the 3 foot section they thought was theirs and then use the cash to help with fence costs.  With that said wood fences will become ugly in 2 years and you will be spending time and money to keep them up.  Good luck
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