General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable. Rss Feed  
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2012-09-19 1:53 PM

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Subject: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

I just watched this and e-mailed it to a friend.

I was amazed by it. Take a look at Michael Phelps Freestyle stroke on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax77_hHq9Dc

Perhaps the single most remarkable thing, other than his incredible kick, is the unusual "1,2.....1,2....1,2...." cadence of his arm movement. It seems like the proulsive phase of his arms is at a much lower frequency than that of his kick; the thrust from his kick is constant- the thrust from his freestyle stroke is intermitant.

Fascinating.

 



2012-09-19 2:01 PM
in reply to: #4418925

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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
The last 2 lengths with the simultaneous above and below water are pretty interesting...there is an assymetry in the timing of his left vs. right stroke.

He strokes much earlier with the right arm for each breath, and part of that stroke pops him up a little in the water for clearer breathing.

his coach has a video discussing his breathing as an ongoing improvement project...

This completely explains the source of the loping stroke, and his 6 beat kick is perfectly timed without missing a kick anywhere.
2012-09-19 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

Pretty cool video but I read some of the comments and this one cracked me up.

Ever notice how Michael? Phelp's dad is never at the olympics cheering him on?

That's because his dad is a dolphin, and that's not what dolphins do

2012-09-19 2:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

AdventureBear - 2012-09-19 3:01 PM there is an assymetry in the timing of his left vs. right stroke. He strokes much earlier with the right arm for each breath, and part of that stroke pops him up a little in the water for clearer breathing.

I noticed that during the Olympics with him and a number of others. Seems to work though

2012-09-19 2:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
iruptacopula - 2012-09-19 2:03 PM

Pretty cool video but I read some of the comments and this one cracked me up.

Ever notice how Michael? Phelp's dad is never at the olympics cheering him on?

That's because his dad is a dolphin, and that's not what dolphins do

LMAO!!

2012-09-19 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
o..........m..........g..........


2012-09-19 2:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
I've heard the kids at swimming refer to it as a "gallop".....and then I've seen a few playing around with it.....it's interesting.
2012-09-19 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

He makes it look wayyy too easy. I hate that! At least make it look hard!

 

His kick alone though looks like it could blow me flat out of the water. That's some serious kick power there.

2012-09-19 3:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
yazmaster - 2012-09-19 12:52 PM

He makes it look wayyy too easy. I hate that! At least make it look hard!

 

His kick alone though looks like it could blow me flat out of the water. That's some serious kick power there.

I heard a great comment on the radio this morning about athletes (they were talking football and basketball but it applies across the board) - "If it looks easy, you know they are really, really, good".

 

2012-09-19 3:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

I'm amazed by the flexibility of his feet, if you watch the slo-mo sequence they have the exact look and flex of scuba flippers.

I'm pretty sure my feet don't do that when I swim.

2012-09-19 4:00 PM
in reply to: #4419196

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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
Tom, you missed a great entertainment opportunity here.  You should have posted the video under the scenario that this was some MOP age grouper that wanted us to critique his stroke.  It would have been humourous to see the swimming "experts" come out of the woodwork, pointing out his many flaws!


2012-09-19 4:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
mrbbrad - 2012-09-19 1:13 PM

AdventureBear - 2012-09-19 3:01 PM there is an asymmetry in the timing of his left vs. right stroke. He strokes much earlier with the right arm for each breath, and part of that stroke pops him up a little in the water for clearer breathing.

I noticed that during the Olympics with him and a number of others. Seems to work though



Yes, I've known about it for quite some time, but just now was the first I'd noted the timing of the strokes as contributing to the appearance of the 'gallop'. The early stroke on the breathing side provides lifting which means that when this propulsive force is done, he sinks deeper as the right arm recovers than when the left arm recovers.

It seems more clear to me that this is a compensatory way of getting a breath even more frequently than by trying to retain a 100% symmetrical stroke...At the speeds and efforts he is swimming, and noting that his lactate threshold is quite high, he's probably consuming way more oxygen than most.

I don't think it's a style to emulate on purpose as the style is a result of the breathing...most people have other improvements to make in their breathing before having to worry about looking like phelps, and most people using the same side arm stroke to assist with breathing are losing a significant amount of propulsion in the process. Michael doesn't seem to have this problem.
2012-09-19 5:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

Here is an article form the great mind of Dan Empfield I consider an iconic insight:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/General_Training/The_High_cost_of_good_form_947.html

In it, Empfield likens swim speed and stroke performance to aircraft performance, an analogy I liked because I like reading about airplanes.

In a nutshell Empfield points out that for a stroke to be truly efficient the swimmer must first acheive a minimum velocity. Getting to that velocity takes some baseline fitness, training and and technique.

To a degree- but not entirely- this flies in the face of slower swimmers doing endless drills, like Total Immmersion espouses. It speaks to an approach where you first have to acheive a basic level of speed and its corresponding velocity.

I believe Empfield is right. Once you "brute force" your way up to a certain swim speed then, when you clean up your stroke, you do seem to swim at a better velocity with less work. Again- a visceral feeling, nothing scientific here.

When I watch Phelps' stroke and try (quite feebly) to emulate that... I sink. I'm not moving through the water fast enough. I do a 100, flat out, in about 1:10-1:15. Olympic Gold Medalist Nathan Adrian does it in 47:52, a staggering 23% faster than me. His velocity through the water would complete an Ironman swim in... 33:58.

2012-09-19 5:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
Tom Demerly. - 2012-09-19 4:00 PM

To a degree- but not entirely- this flies in the face of slower swimmers doing endless drills, like Total Immmersion espouses. It speaks to an approach where you first have to acheive a basic level of speed and its corresponding velocity.



Hey, quit pickin' on TI. In fact, if you head over to the TI forum right now, you'll see a user who posted about doing "endless drills", who was quite hastily chastised. Criticisms based in misconceptions are as bad as rumors. All of our Centrally run workshops for the past several years have always included whole stroke quite early in the weekend's events. In private lessons, unless the swimmer is completely at a loss in the water, we are doing a balance of drills & swimming in lesson 1. If the swimmer is 'pretty good', it may be 20% drill, 80% swimming. The drills are corrective for whole stroke, so without whole stroke the drills have no context. We have in fact nearly eliminated one "old standby" drill that simply was not functional for learners.

We are constantly updating our coach's knowledge through webinars, coaching seminar updates and an annual coaching summit.

Edited by AdventureBear 2012-09-19 5:08 PM
2012-09-19 5:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

AdventureBear, FWIW, total immersion techniques, videos and drills are pretty relevant to me. The "swimming downhill" concept is a golden nugget from their doctrine.

I think a good athlete pulls together relevant excerpts from a lot of resources, and T.I. and Terry Laughlin are huge resources in swimming doctrine.

No examination of swimming freestyle is complete without a detailed survey of the Terry Laughlin/Total Immersion swim philosophy. It's relevant.

2012-09-19 5:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
I commented on the TI forum a few weeks ago how it's easy for criticisms to remain entrenched because Terry has a published book...the best selling book on swimming I believe...and as everyone knows, hardcopy publishing is out of date before it goes to the printer.

If you know Terry, he's constantly changing and evolving both his teaching methods and his outlook...partly as he continues to learn about teaching swimming (you'd think 40 years would be enough) and partly because as each decade passes, his personal interests in swimming and how it fits in his own life changes.

So what is TI? IS it what Terry is thinking today? Is it what the majority of TI certified coaches are coaching? Is it what people interpret from a book that was first published in 1996 and last updated in 2004 ? When Terry finishes his latest version of the book there will be many of the same fundamental principals and drills that remain. But what's changed is how and when we implement these things depending on the needs of the swimmer.

It's always in evolution, which is generally a healthy thing.

BTW thanks for Dan's link, interesting thoughts.


2012-09-19 5:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
His seat is too high.
2012-09-19 6:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
Yeah, but his elbow's not.
2012-09-19 6:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
Tom Demerly. - 2012-09-19 1:53 PM

I just watched this and e-mailed it to a friend.

I was amazed by it. Take a look at Michael Phelps Freestyle stroke on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax77_hHq9Dc

Perhaps the single most remarkable thing, other than his incredible kick, is the unusual "1,2.....1,2....1,2...." cadence of his arm movement. It seems like the proulsive phase of his arms is at a much lower frequency than that of his kick; the thrust from his kick is constant- the thrust from his freestyle stroke is intermitant.

Fascinating.

 

A majority of swimmers follow this pattern. Specifically, any great distance swimmer ive ever seen swims exactly like that. A lot of it has to do with breathing to one side rather than rotating. I only breathe to my right side and never alternate. Switching would disrupt this pattern. There's no mistaking that it is faster. It's almost a hybrid butterfly/freestyle combination. It's stronger, takes less effort and increases your distance per stroke. At 1:30 is a good illustration of Ian Thorpe doing the same http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=mm-vSqlWmgs

Edited by MFConlon 2012-09-19 6:41 PM
2012-09-19 6:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.


Edited by MFConlon 2012-09-19 6:42 PM
2012-09-19 6:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
The violent dolphin kick and kick in general blows me away


2012-09-19 7:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

My coach says all swimmers have their own strengths and own techniques - Ian Thorpe for example - has flippers not feet, he can touch his shin with his toes!

What I noticed most with this one was the ferocity of the kick - my HR would be - well probably flatlining at that pace!  And how much splash!

I barely kick at all when swimming as it seems to slow me down according to my coach!  It certainly doesn't propel me along any faster!

Contrary to that in a kick drill with board - I blow everyone out of the water, if only I could translate my kickboard drill into my freestyle!  Just doesn't happen!

Truly he is a freak of nature - or indeed a dolphin.

2012-09-19 7:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
Turnin2 - 2012-09-19 5:45 PM

I'm amazed by the flexibility of his feet, if you watch the slo-mo sequence they have the exact look and flex of scuba flippers.

I'm pretty sure my feet don't do that when I swim.

This is what I noticed too. crazy flexible feet.

2012-09-19 9:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.

I just wish I could do 100yards OWS in under 3minutes... *sigh*

The time between breathing for Phelps, I can't even do while sitting on the couch.

Or holding my breath as long as he is underwater...

2012-09-19 10:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Michael Phelps Freestyle Video. Quite Remarkable.
I'm pretty amazed at how much he moves up and down in the water throughout his stroke, it's like his head gets completely submerged by a few inches at times. 
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