For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program
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2012-10-31 8:41 AM |
Member 81 | Subject: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program Less than two weeks ago I finished my first half iron distance race. My winter plan includes getting more power/speed on the bike and increasing my running mileage primarily through adding additional running days. I have heard great things about Jorge's winter cycling program which I think has now been licensed/purchased by BT. I did the 30 minute threshold test capturing heart rate, speed and RPE. I have then done a few additional workouts using the data gathered from the test. When I look at the winter cycling program many of the days seem a little easy/short and I don't really see that changing as the program moves a long. For those who have done the entire 16 week program, did anyone double the main set or modify the program in a way to make each day a little longer/harder? I realize each week has a fourth day for a long ride at a steady state but I would rather increase the other three days by say 20 to 30 minutes. Thank you in advance for your feedback. |
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2012-10-31 8:52 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Pro 5123 Canandaigua NY | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program I believe if you follow the plan as written those short days won't seem so short! The intensity is there and the program works if you follow it as written. I took my CP from 225 to 250 following the plan. ETA: Congrats on your first half! Edited by kenj 2012-10-31 8:53 AM |
2012-10-31 8:56 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program I followed it 100% last winter. There weren't many workouts where I felt like I wanted to keep going for another 30 mins. If you feel like something isn't a challenge, I submit that you aren't going hard enough. IIRC, the first few weeks are just an intro/warmup. |
2012-10-31 9:02 AM in reply to: #4476473 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program axteraa - 2012-10-31 8:56 AM I followed it 100% last winter. There weren't many workouts where I felt like I wanted to keep going for another 30 mins. If you feel like something isn't a challenge, I submit that you aren't going hard enough. IIRC, the first few weeks are just an intro/warmup. Agreed. If you are feeling like you didn't work hard enough after a 4x10' set, then you weren't going hard enough. Make sure that you're going all out on that 30 min test too. If you're HR is too low because you didn't push yourself, then the workouts will definitely feel easy. I don't have power, but I can tell you that I went ~2MPH faster on most courses that I raced on last year after completing Jorge's cycling program. I'm a huge fan of the program, and I would have to be really convinced to switch to something different this coming offseason. Edited by msteiner 2012-10-31 9:08 AM |
2012-10-31 9:20 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program shy1 - 2012-10-31 9:41 AM Just do it! You will not wish any of the sessions were any longer once you start. Less than two weeks ago I finished my first half iron distance race. My winter plan includes getting more power/speed on the bike and increasing my running mileage primarily through adding additional running days. I have heard great things about Jorge's winter cycling program which I think has now been licensed/purchased by BT. I did the 30 minute threshold test capturing heart rate, speed and RPE. I have then done a few additional workouts using the data gathered from the test. When I look at the winter cycling program many of the days seem a little easy/short and I don't really see that changing as the program moves a long. For those who have done the entire 16 week program, did anyone double the main set or modify the program in a way to make each day a little longer/harder? I realize each week has a fourth day for a long ride at a steady state but I would rather increase the other three days by say 20 to 30 minutes. Thank you in advance for your feedback. BTW are you on a trainer and if so what model? I ask because I found it so much "easier" to do the plan using virtual power. No HR lag & no RPE issues. |
2012-10-31 9:37 AM in reply to: #4476517 |
Expert 1375 McAllen | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program Once you get a feel for your HRM though you can kind of account for the lag. For example I know my zones pretty well and can "mas o menos" my power output based off of perceived exertion to get my target heartrate and I'm within 5% accuracy usually. I don't have a power meter, but I know how hard I need to go to get my heartrate to the right zone. |
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2012-10-31 9:52 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program IMHO NONE of the workouts are "easy". If they feel that way, maybe you were not going all-out on the tests, or maybe you did the test when still fatigued from the race and now that you're recovered you've found you set the baseline too low? In my experience, the % are so hard I can just barely hit them throughout the workout, esp. for the short intervals of 5 minutes or less. But maybe that's just the way my body works; others might find the longer intervals at slightly lower effort harder. When I was training for a HIM last year, I sometimes did add another 20-30 minutes of easy to moderate riding after one of the workouts just to get in more ride time, but it was pretty exhausting. Edited by Hot Runner 2012-10-31 9:54 AM |
2012-10-31 10:07 AM in reply to: #4476473 |
Extreme Veteran 837 Wellesley, Massachusetts | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program axteraa - 2012-10-31 9:56 AM I followed it 100% last winter. There weren't many workouts where I felt like I wanted to keep going for another 30 mins. If you feel like something isn't a challenge, I submit that you aren't going hard enough. IIRC, the first few weeks are just an intro/warmup. x2. I did his program a couple of winters ago by HR (don't have gadgets to do CP), but there was a noticeable increase in my power and endurance the following season. If you put in the effort and do it correctly, you will see why many weekly workouts are sub 60 min. Also, you have to think about your goals. Do you want to increase critical power? Do Jorge's plan. If you want to increase endurance, look for something else. |
2012-10-31 10:10 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Elite 3088 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program Remember a few key things here:
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2012-10-31 11:09 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Royal(PITA) 14270 West Chester, Ohio | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program I have attempted his plan for 3 years and successfully completed it once. It is very hard and worth the effort. Made a huge impact on my bike pace and effort early season. Unfortunately, once I switched to run focus for my half marathon my bike speed slowly dropped.....but his program is good and definitely worth the work. |
2012-10-31 11:51 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Veteran 232 Charlotte | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program I am now working through it for the third time. FTP from ~220 to ~250 over last year, although some of that is probably due to getting better at taking the test. Went from ~20mph last season to ~22mph this season at sprint distance. The first two times I've had the same experience. Note that I'm doing the version from ~2 years ago, so if the basic structure is different, then what I describe might not make much sense. * The first ~3 weeks of 1-minute intervals always felt pretty easy. * The middle ~4 weeks of 4-8 minute intervals made me want to die. * The last ~4 weeks of 10-20 minute intervals are not mentally possible. I'm guessing this is 33% a function of my having a steep power curve, and 67% being mentally weak. I get halfway through those long sets and I just can't make myself keep going at that rate, so I back off 10% and limp out the rest. |
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2012-10-31 3:23 PM in reply to: #4476435 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program Also, you won't be able to improve your run while doing the bike program with integrity. You can maintain your run, even build a decent base, but you can inprove your run or your bike over the winter, not both (assuming you have decent fitness in both already). |
2012-10-31 3:28 PM in reply to: #4477430 |
Master 1858 Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program Baowolf - 2012-10-31 1:23 PM Also, you won't be able to improve your run while doing the bike program with integrity. You can maintain your run, even build a decent base, but you can inprove your run or your bike over the winter, not both (assuming you have decent fitness in both already).
I was decently fast going into last winter, and after following Jorge's plan and getting in 4 runs a week my run somehow improved almost 30sec/mile off my previous easy run pace. I'm not saying it would work that way for everyone, but for whatever reason it did for me. |
2012-10-31 7:31 PM in reply to: #4476435 |
Veteran 437 Pittsburgh, PA | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program I just finished the up the 7 week plan he has on TrainerRoad. Took my FTP from 240 to 299. I think it would be hard to follow without trainerroad or a PM. I have now started with some of the sufferfest videos to mix it up but I will go back to the 7 week plan again in a few weeks and see how much more I can improve before the new season. |
2012-11-01 8:19 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Extreme Veteran 821 | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program short, and easy days? lol just do the plan and after 4-6 weeks make sure you review this thread again |
2012-11-01 8:31 AM in reply to: #4476435 |
Member 81 | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program Thank you for the feedback everyone. Using everyone's suggestions I did another of his workouts today and agree that when done correctly they are plenty long enough given there purpose. Today, I tried pushing hard at much higher gears and that made a huge difference (duh!). I was still going all out before but I was doing so at gears too similar to my long HIM rides. So while they were clearly harder/more difficult they weren't enough to see the "plans" vision. I now see the vision and I will not be doubling anything! |
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2012-11-01 8:54 AM in reply to: #4477430 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: For those who have done Jorge's Winter Cycle Program Baowolf - 2012-10-31 3:23 PM Also, you won't be able to improve your run while doing the bike program with integrity. You can maintain your run, even build a decent base, but you can inprove your run or your bike over the winter, not both (assuming you have decent fitness in both already). I disagree with this. I was able to mix Jorge's Winter Cycling plan while doing a Jack Daniels based plan to improve my 10K and got below 40 mins for the first time last February as well as a sub 1:30 half in Rock n' Roll New Orleans. |