Chinese Carbon (Page 2)

Quality control and the risk of catastrophic failure, as was previously mentioned.

Williams or Boyd wheels are a good compromise if you're looking to save money yet have a warranty and service. I've got a set of Boyd carbon wheels that I'd recommend to anyone. He doesn't put money into design like Zipp or Enve, but he does have superb service and guarantees his work.

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I could not afford Zipps even used it seemed.  Didn't want the cheap Ebay wheels because you never know where they came from.  Bought a set of Boyd 58s, couldn't be happier and I have a warranty and a crash replacement option if "I" crash and damage the wheel.  Seems like a good marriage between "too high prices" and "too scary cheap".

Not to hijack the thread, but this whole marketing machine super high priced stuff isn't to pay for research.  It's to pay for profit, salaries, insurances, etc as they skyrocket.  Here's to a strong job market and economy.

Party true. Research IS expensive. So are obtaining and defending patents. Something that Chinese companies do not have a good track record of honoring.

You are assuming that because the wheels have good R&D and its an American company that the wheels are bullet proof.  All manufactured items can have defects that lead to blowouts, etc.  My line of work is manufacturing of medical devices here in the US and abroad.  Trust me, no matter how strong your processes and procedures are, you will have defects, and some will reach the market place.  Is it more likely with foreign made goods? Possibly, but defects are defects.

Theystand behind the warranty on their rim to an extent. Email them and ask them if you are in a race and something goes wrong and say spoke breaks or a bearing blows out on the hub causing you to crash with damage to the rim if they will replace the rim? I have first hand experience with  that and know the answer.

I agree that initial capital outlay is expensive. That money is made back and then on you go.  I also think brand exclusivity plays a major role here. I look at Lacoste as a case model.  The brand was the iconic prep symbol in the 70s when it was Izod-Lacoste. Died after they cheapened the brand and sold their products everywhere at discounts.  They've now become popular again as high end product where a $1.00 or less (cost) t-shirt runs you $40.00.  They choose to keep the prices high because of the mindset that you get what you pay for--and to a certain extent, this is true.  It's also because you have something (you can afford) that others cannot. Brands such as Under Armour and The North Face do the same sort of thing which is why store coupons often don't apply to them because they don't want the brand cheapened.  Luckily there are those that can bridge the gap between high end and garbage.

Just google one of the following wheel sets

Reynolds, Easton, American Classic, FFWD, Boyd, Williams, Planet X, 2Quik, Hawk Racing, Soul, Gigantex.

Also Try all of the above on eBay or simply just search with "Carbon Clincher"

Do an e-bay search for "carbon fiber bicycle wheels."  Pretty much everything that shows up for around $500/set is going to be your Chinese/Taiwanese stuff.

What makes you think they arent using the same molds? There are no knock off laws in China or Taiwan. These wheels are most likely made in the same exact factory as the expensive stuff. 

While I understand your wishes, in reality that's kind of impossible.

Whether you buy a toothbrush, a steak, a bike, a beer, or gasoline, every single purchase you make has major political implications close to home and far away. Many say that how you vote with your money gives you far more power than how you vote at the ballot box. And your purchases affect political repression, jobs, globalization, logistics, work rules, environmental degradation, you name it. It's just unavoidable. If you live and consume (and we all do), you affect the people on this globe.

I can say this, we could make a lot more money if we outsourced the manufacture of our tri products to Chinese factories. And that choice was definitely available to us. But, we thought long and hard about it and decided that it is worth it to keep things local, in the USA.

The buck has gotta stop somewhere, so why not with us?

Actually, there are intellectual property laws in both China and Taiwan. They're just very selectively enforced.

Also, not knocking the wheels (they might be great, or ... not), but just because something is made in the same mold as another carbon composite item does not in any way mean that the copied item is similar. There are at least a thousand variables in carbon materials, modulus, weaves, lay-ups, epoxies, void reduction, curing methods, the list goes on and on ...

See my response on page 1 of this thread. Likely they ARE made in the same molds.

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Although I think I might have been the one to point you to Hong Fu.

Their are significant differences in carbon fiber wheel construction from brand to band, not necessarily from region to region as some of the very best carbon fiber wheels are Asian and there are some marginal domestically produced ones.

Bottom line: Do your due dilligence when researching the product. That isn't always easy since many brands aren't very transparent about their sourcing and manufacturing. Usually, that is a clue...

The quality and technology leaders are transparent about their development, testing and quality. Zipp produces videos and cooperates with tech editors in providing insights into their design and manufacturing process. HED does too, same with Easton and Mavic. The better brands who actually do development and manufacturing spend a considerable time talking about it.

You can tell who the "sticker slappers" are who are simply branding a wheel or a bike. Even those are often good quality as the market cannot support really poor quality product.

Here are some import vendors I photographed recently and you can spot some familiar brand names in their booths:

This bugs me, for the reasons I stated. Developing intellectual property is expensive and these companies work hard to be best in class. I would not support any company that steals IP and illegally copies another product. If they are willing to do that, what other corners are they cutting?

They start with the ones you can't see, and go from there.

They'll enforce them if the company with the intellectual property asks them to.  You've only got to go to the 'knock off' malls in Shenzhen to see that some brands are on show and some aren't.  Mind you, they're all there if you ask for them.

I sat through three hours of someone walking me through Chinese IP law in Shanghai, not three blocks away from a bricks and mortar shopping centre selling fake western goods.  So annoying.

The majority of IP cases in China are as a result of someone stealing someones idea before they've patented it and then patenting it themselves, then the original guy has to prove his case (and rarely can).

Innovation and creativity are sold at an immoral premium by Western super marketeers and then stolen, copied and sold to the Western brand loving Chinese abroad.

And you and I and all the other consumers are stuck in the middle with the worst deal of all.