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2012-12-03 10:38 AM

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Subject: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmM2jPH-II

I think it would be pretty interesting.


2012-12-03 10:45 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

TriRSquared - 2012-12-03 10:38 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmM2jPH-II

I think it would be pretty interesting.

Rugby is hardcore.  So is Aussie Rules Football.

Had a friend try to recruit me to play on their squad.  I went to watch a game with the then fiance now wife.  We both agreed I would be mince meat in 10 seconds.  I was only 160lbs at 6'3" at the time.

2012-12-03 10:52 AM
in reply to: #4519299

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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
It would solve a lot of the injury issues. No one is going to launch themselves head first at someone else's head with no helmet/pads.
2012-12-03 11:27 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

I played rugby for about 10 years. It isn't that tough.

The contact in rugby is way more "controlled" and the flow of the game is always in front of you. You can only make contact with an opposing player that has the ball or during a ruck or maul. The odds of getting blind sided in rugby is highly unlikely unless you do something really stupid.

American football was developed from rugby. The ivy league schools altered the laws of rugby to create the sport.

They have done studies that show american football has about 4 times the injuries as rugby.

Rugby takes all shapes and sizes. One of the better players on an old team was 5'7" and about 165lbs. It was amazing to watch him tackle guys 6'4" and 245lbs. The bigger guy would try to run him over and he would just drop them.

2012-12-03 11:29 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

JoshR - 2012-12-03 10:52 AM It would solve a lot of the injury issues. No one is going to launch themselves head first at someone else's head with no helmet/pads.

There is still an issue with head injuries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sports/rugby/24iht-rugby24.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

One of many with a simple search.

2012-12-03 11:30 AM
in reply to: #4519406

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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
bullyboy - 2012-12-03 11:27 AM

I played rugby for about 10 years. It isn't that tough.

The contact in rugby is way more "controlled" and the flow of the game is always in front of you. You can only make contact with an opposing player that has the ball or during a ruck or maul. The odds of getting blind sided in rugby is highly unlikely unless you do something really stupid.

American football was developed from rugby. The ivy league schools altered the laws of rugby to create the sport.

They have done studies that show american football has about 4 times the injuries as rugby.

Rugby takes all shapes and sizes. One of the better players on an old team was 5'7" and about 165lbs. It was amazing to watch him tackle guys 6'4" and 245lbs. The bigger guy would try to run him over and he would just drop them.

Problem I've seen is too many former American Football players (Pee Wee, HS, College) get into it and forget they don't have pads and try to hit like they did when they played. 



2012-12-03 11:58 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

Problem I've seen is too many former American Football players (Pee Wee, HS, College) get into it and forget they don't have pads and try to hit like they did when they played. 

I agree but i found it to be more the exception than the rule. Unfortunately, some people get into rugby thinking the game is about pummeling someone and not about the skill. [Don't get me wrong the game is PHYSICAL - that is part of the challenge]. It also seems to be the same individuals who think the sport is about getting drunk and doing stupid sh**. Sadly, I do think that american club players tend to rely on the physical side more than the skill set required to play.

I have played both abroad and here in the US. Some of the hardest tackles I have experienced were from Pacific Islanders [Tongan, Samoan, etc]. Totally legal. Just solid, hard, driving me off my feet tackles. Taught me to look harder for my support players to pass the ball to.

Oh, and tackling in rugby is generally done about the waist [the soft bit] and not the knees. High tackles [above the chest] are penalized. This is were the skill comes in [as shown in the video]... distributing the ball by passing, running, or kicking.



Edited by bullyboy 2012-12-03 12:01 PM
2012-12-03 11:59 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

There is a well-researched parallel in the world of competitive fighting. 

I heard a show about this on NPR many years ago. If you study the history of boxing, the early bare knuckle days were very different. Gloves were added to encourage a more "sophisticated" audience, thus increasing the betting, and eventually the prize purses. They didn't want to see the blood. It was gentrified. 

Fast forward decades. The long-term injuries for a professional boxer are for more dangerous than those of a typical bare knuckle fighter. They might have had uglier bruises, and more blood, which in the immediate term can look more violent, certainly more visceral. Yet these injuries tended to heal better. 

Our era has seen the huge increase in MMA fighting, which I would venture to guess is now a much bigger sport than gloved boxing. It looks brutal. It comes across as way more violent. But I would bet that the participants have a better long-term health picture than boxers.

2012-12-03 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
TheClaaaw - 2012-12-03 11:59 AM

There is a well-researched parallel in the world of competitive fighting. 

I heard a show about this on NPR many years ago. If you study the history of boxing, the early bare knuckle days were very different. Gloves were added to encourage a more "sophisticated" audience, thus increasing the betting, and eventually the prize purses. They didn't want to see the blood. It was gentrified. 

Fast forward decades. The long-term injuries for a professional boxer are for more dangerous than those of a typical bare knuckle fighter. They might have had uglier bruises, and more blood, which in the immediate term can look more violent, certainly more visceral. Yet these injuries tended to heal better. 

Our era has seen the huge increase in MMA fighting, which I would venture to guess is now a much bigger sport than gloved boxing. It looks brutal. It comes across as way more violent. But I would bet that the participants have a better long-term health picture than boxers.



I didn’t see the documentary, but as I understand it, gloves were added to boxing to protect the boxers’ hands, not to protect their opponents. In the old days, boxers fought regularly, sometimes several times a day. A broken hand could keep them out for weeks, costing them much-needed income. It was never really about protecting their opponents or limiting the amount of blood.
2012-12-03 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
bullyboy - 2012-12-03 11:58 AM

Problem I've seen is too many former American Football players (Pee Wee, HS, College) get into it and forget they don't have pads and try to hit like they did when they played. 

I agree but i found it to be more the exception than the rule. Unfortunately, some people get into rugby thinking the game is about pummeling someone and not about the skill. [Don't get me wrong the game is PHYSICAL - that is part of the challenge]. It also seems to be the same individuals who think the sport is about getting drunk and doing stupid sh**. Sadly, I do think that american club players tend to rely on the physical side more than the skill set required to play.

I have played both abroad and here in the US. Some of the hardest tackles I have experienced were from Pacific Islanders [Tongan, Samoan, etc]. Totally legal. Just solid, hard, driving me off my feet tackles. Taught me to look harder for my support players to pass the ball to.

Oh, and tackling in rugby is generally done about the waist [the soft bit] and not the knees. High tackles [above the chest] are penalized. This is were the skill comes in [as shown in the video]... distributing the ball by passing, running, or kicking.

Trust me, I know.  Love watching the game.  League, Union, Sevens, AFL.  I can appreciate the skill they have. 

BTW, the team I watched was in Iowa, very early 90's.   Most were ex-HS and College FB players.  And while the hits above the waist were illegal, they were plentiful in the match I watched.  Cedar Rapids Head Hunters.  Called that for a reason.

2012-12-03 1:02 PM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

 

Interesting thing I heard from one of the commentators yesterday. They said all this cracking down by the league on head to head hits and leading with the head and such has caused players to start tackling lower. Unintended consequence is players are getting more knee, ankle and general leg injuries than they were before.

Sometimes I wonder if the problem might just go away if the players were allowed to handle it. Police them and some will follow the strict rules and others will get blindsided when one guy decides to break the rules and get outta hand.

Leave it up to the players and you get some good righteous fear going on and maybe everyone would play nice. Linebacker comes in a bit too hot and nails your QB hard? Next play send the fullback full steam at him and put him down, bet he will play nicer next time. I suppose to favors the defense because it is harder to hit someone hard when you are playing offense. 

But perhaps a for tat, you lay our guys out we target your guys would cause everyone to calm down a bit. Or it could just lead to utter chaos, who knows.



2012-12-03 2:21 PM
in reply to: #4519640

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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
Aarondb4 - 2012-12-03 1:02 PM...

But perhaps a <missing word> for tat, ...

T1t is a naughty word here.

2012-12-03 2:42 PM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
The concussions still exist in MMA, and depending on how much the people spar, the micro-traumas are there, but you aren't going out on fight night in MMA and getting hit 150 plus times in the head.

I think its a risk these people take. If you make it to the big time in MMA, boxing, and obviously football, you are gonna make a sizeable income. To most people, the risk is worth it. Most of the NFL players suing now b/c of the NFL "hiding" concussion info are flat broke and they need some money.

If I were gifted enough to fight professionally, or play football professionally, would I do so? More than likely yes. You just have to weight the risks vs the reward.
2012-12-03 2:47 PM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
crowny2 - 2012-12-03 9:29 AM

JoshR - 2012-12-03 10:52 AM It would solve a lot of the injury issues. No one is going to launch themselves head first at someone else's head with no helmet/pads.

There is still an issue with head injuries.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sports/rugby/24iht-rugby24.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

One of many with a simple search.

Your risk level is also highly dependent on which position you play.

2012-12-03 2:47 PM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
Aarondb4 - 2012-12-03 2:02 PM

 

Interesting thing I heard from one of the commentators yesterday. They said all this cracking down by the league on head to head hits and leading with the head and such has caused players to start tackling lower. Unintended consequence is players are getting more knee, ankle and general leg injuries than they were before.

Sometimes I wonder if the problem might just go away if the players were allowed to handle it. Police them and some will follow the strict rules and others will get blindsided when one guy decides to break the rules and get outta hand.

Leave it up to the players and you get some good righteous fear going on and maybe everyone would play nice. Linebacker comes in a bit too hot and nails your QB hard? Next play send the fullback full steam at him and put him down, bet he will play nicer next time. I suppose to favors the defense because it is harder to hit someone hard when you are playing offense. 

But perhaps a for tat, you lay our guys out we target your guys would cause everyone to calm down a bit. Or it could just lead to utter chaos, who knows.

Either way, quite entertaining.

Want to spruce up the pro-bowl? End of year. Instead of selecting the best players, select the dirtiest ones (by player's votes). Let them go at it. Must watch TV.

2012-12-03 3:13 PM
in reply to: #4519299

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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

Why is "American Football" so popular in the US as compared to the perennial world favorite, footbal or "soccer"?  Because American culture really does have violence near its center.  Movies... TV shows... and yes, our favorite sport is nothing more than a modern-day gladiator battle.  The fans LOVE the intense hits and impacts.  They live to see the NASCAR crash where cars flip and roll.  "When the gloves come off" in hockey.  We have "professional wrestling".  Our culture glorifies violence.

So there's a conflict of interest here...

The "big hit" = fan entertainment = tix & TV renevue VS player safety & protecting children

When I was little, I asked mom if I could play football and she responded with a firm, "NO!  It's too dangerous."  She did let me wrestle though which became "my sport" and I went as far as becoming a high school state champion.  To this day, I'm thankful for her decision.  I wouldn't let my son play tackle football today.  The message about repeat and playing with concussions and the effects of brain injury on children aren't yet fully known and documented.

But certainly I wouldn't want myself or my son to develop Parkinson's disease or Early Onset Dimentia like so many retired football players have now.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-09-27/jim-mcmahon-dementia-would-have-played-baseball-nfl

 



2012-12-03 3:46 PM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

Why is "American Football" so popular in the US as compared to the perennial world favorite, footbal or "soccer"?  Because American culture really does have violence near its center.

Because our capitalist society can't handle a sport that never stops for advertisements.

2012-12-04 4:31 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

I always think that soccer is less possible here in Australia because of a few other reasons. Firstly, there is way too little scoring. WAY too little. Secondly, all the flopping and acting, I mean seriously, get up off the ground and man up. 

I played union and Australian rules. Union has MUCH harder hits, but is an easier game overall. Aussie rules is just crazy running. No stopping. Perpetual motion (some of the best players run over 20 km in a game), and you never know where the hits will come from. Both great games once you get to know them.

2012-12-04 8:39 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets
Rugby requires you to use your arms to tackle or its a penalty and they are very good at youth levels teaching technique. I played scrum half and regularly had to tackle the forwards twice my size. There was no fear because i knew how to do it and it was effective.

Watching AF - the players just create a collision most of the time and hope this knocks the other person down - tackling is a lost art - nowadays its about the force you can apply at contact. A simple change to those rules may make players use more form and less brutality to bring down opponents
2012-12-04 9:28 AM
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Subject: RE: For one week I'd like the NFL to lose the pads and helmets

I got hooked on footy when I was in Australia a few years ago.

It struck me as a faster paced football because they do not stop when the ball is downed.

Go Sea Eagles!

 

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