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2012-12-06 8:27 AM


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Subject: Kicktastic swimmer
Hey guys,

So I was looking through swim smooth's website and found the section on swim types. I'm 99% sure I'm a kicktastic.

I'm wondering if anyone else is or used to be a kicktastic and what types of things you are doing in the pool to correct the hard kicking. What I have been doing is a lot of sets with the pull bouy. I'm definitely slower with it and my arms/chest/everything get really tired pretty quickly when I do (from what I'm reading it sounds like that's because my catch sucks, body rotation is certainly part to blame too).

The one encouraging part of the pull bouy sets is that my heart rate is way lower when I'm done than without. Hopefully with reduced kicking my normal swim can get that way.

But anyway, what kinds of drills are the other kicktastics doing? I happy to do whatever and have as much time as I could ask for to work on things. I haven't bought the guide that swim smooth sells, although I'm thinking about it.


2012-12-06 9:31 AM
in reply to: #4524198

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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer
Ankle band.  Nothing settles down a spazzy kick as effectively as tieing your feet together.

Edited by Giant Tortoise 2012-12-06 9:31 AM
2012-12-06 9:48 AM
in reply to: #4524198

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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer

I sometimes see this type at the pool.

- Contrary to what you might expect: Have you considered practicing the kick? The "kicktastic" tend to kick from the knee, but in the kick you should maintain a straight leg. So, some kick sets focusing on this.

Kicking with straight leg it's hard to maintain the same kick frequency, so you consider doing 2-beat kick. 

- Work on your body position, such that it doesn't depend on the kick. You get your legs up by engaging the lower back muscles and core. 

- Use pull buoy and paddles to build upper body strength, work on getting a good grip in the water and better body rotation. I don't know if you're using the paddles, but they can help you build the strength and improve stroke technique.

2012-12-06 1:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer
I have never used paddles but I have seem others use them at the pool and have wondered what their goals were with them.

I do think I kick from the knees. I don't do many kickboard sets but I guess I should do more of them? I find them pretty exhausting, but I definitely have the capacity to do more. Are there other useful kicking drills that can help me know if I'm doing it right?

Also What kind of paddles would you recommend? I can start looking into them more tonight.

I know I need to focus on my body rotation more. I try to focus on it duringy pull bouy sets but I'm still trying to figure it out..

Thanks for your input.
2012-12-06 8:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer

I used to do this and would kick from the knee while my legs sank.  Kicking too much is a pretty common problem and can stem from the feeling that we are sinking.  What worked for me was figuring out balance.  If you press your chest into the water like you are swimming downhill and put your head in a neutral position (not looking too far ahead), your legs will rise.  Also you can work at kicking more from your hips and less from your knees.  There should only be a slight bend in your knee, about 30 degrees, and most of the power should come from your hips and quads.

2012-12-07 2:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer

bigmike3541 - 2012-12-06 8:52 PM I have never used paddles but I have seem others use them at the pool and have wondered what their goals were with them.

Also What kind of paddles would you recommend? I can start looking into them more tonight.

Get small paddles, the should only be slightly larger than your hand. If you have a large hand then your "small" may be medium. Small paddles are are better for technique, while they still build some strength. 

I have seen swimming gloves, but I will not recommend these as they require you to spread out your fingers unnaturally. 

They usually have 2 or 3 straps, one for the middle finger and one for the wrist. Remove all straps but that for the middle finger, which should be comfortably loose. When you pull correctly the paddle will stay put, the water push it on your palm, but if your hand position is wrong the paddle it will slide off. 

BR



2012-12-07 3:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer

I was also kicktastic when I started. I just thought that that was what you're supposed to do! My swim instructor had me practice kicking with a flutter board or doing a front float, and kicking while swimming on my back (note: I learned to swim from scratch as an adult so that's why the class focused on these beginner things, but I think they're useful). I never wore fins, but for some in my class she suggested fins and that helped them slow their kick and improve their ankle joint flexibility.

Over the course of about a few months I learned freestyle and developed a 6 beat kick. It wasn't until I joined Masters Swimming 6 weeks ago that I learned and quickly adopted the 2 beat kick.

One drill we do is to swim and kick with only one leg. It's hard, hard, hard and you're sinking like a rock, but it forced me to feel my body balancing in the water and using my arms more effectively. We'd do 100 yds broken, then switch to the other side for another 100 yds, then put the two together for a set of 2 beat kick. I picked it up quickly, others in the group seem to struggle with it or perhaps don't care to try a 2 beat kick. I think it's wonderful!

If I get any other tips from the coach about this topic, I'll be sure to post. Good luck!



Edited by GreenMtnLabbit 2012-12-07 3:33 AM
2013-10-14 10:49 PM
in reply to: #4524198


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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer
Saw that website today, and I have to admit that it was exactly what I was looking for. Recently I've been getting some personal training from my swim coach, so I'll just relay what I've been told.

It's very important to focus on the pull.

First and foremost would be the catch. Make sure that when you pull through your elbow is bent. The forearm provides much more pull that the palms; it's just that there are more nerves in the hand, so we tend to neglect the forearm. A good drill for this would be swimming with a clenched fist, or using tennis balls.

Pace is also very important. Make sure to keep the tempo high and slow down the kick. You want your arms to feel like they're doing work. Make sure that anybody looking at your swim can differentiate between your warm-up pace and your sprinting pace.

Another big thing is to be sure you arm extending your arms. Often coaches advise to have a bent elbow on recovery, but I've noticed that a bent elbow can often be taken too far; to the point where it is slowing down the stroke. Make sure to keep your arms extended and reach as far out into the water as possible. It's important that the arm isn't extending under the water, but rather, extended once it reaches the surface.

Along with the extended arms comes the rotation. Especially with freestyle, rotation is important. A majority of the swim should be spent on the side, but that doesn't mean to over-rotate. Ask someone to watch your swim and let you now whether your rotations are over-exaggerated.

Since the kick does engage a large amount of lower body muscles, it's important to have a good cardiovascular system. That also means that special attention should be made to breathing. Make sure that bilateral breathing becomes a habit. Every third stroke is generally an accepted rule. It helps keep rhythm, and is not breaking streamline too often. Bilateral breathing also helps eliminate shoulder strain and focuses and training both sides of the body evenly.

I also observed in the video that many of the swimmers tended to enter the water with their thumbs first. This is a big no. Be sure to enter the water with fingertips parallel to the surface of the water. The extra tilt of the hand wastes time and is not quite as efficient at pulling water.

Along with the hand position comes the catch pattern. Make sure that your catch isn't creating an S shape through the water. Your hand should be slicing a straight path until the recovery.

I know that's a lot to take in, and I recommend working one step at a time. I honestly still have a long way to go, but I thought I'd verbalize it for anyone else out there who was struggling. I honestly do hope some of what I said made decent sense.

Experience: Competitive Swimming Since Age 11

Hwaiting!
2013-10-14 11:10 PM
in reply to: bigmike3541


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Subject: RE: Kicktastic swimmer
I think that most kicktastic swimmers are that way not because their kick is inherently so terrible, but because they're using it to offset an imbalance in the upper body pull. Most newer swimmers have a signifiacnt imbalance in their pull and rotation and they don't even realize it because they're using an errant kick to offset the imbalance. Unfortunately, that means wasting a lot of energy and causing a lot of turbulence which slows you a lot.

It's worth learning to swim with a minimal 2-beat or zero kick, even if you prefer swimming with a kick. Pull-only sets with a buoy and no kicking are pretty standard fare for the competitive swimmers, who all can do this no problemo. If you find that no problem, add the ankle band for real refinement and balance.

I guarantee that once you learn had to swim with ankle band + no buoy, you will have lost your errant kickstastic ways, and if you do start kicking again, it'll be for propulsion, not to rebalance you.
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