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2013-01-03 2:39 PM

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Subject: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
I've been swim training for a few months with a minimum of three workouts per week (1500 yards each session) , swimming 50 yards at a time with 1 minute breathers in between for the first few weeks, and have built up to 30 second breathers in between, but I cannot seem to cut any time off the 30 second breaks , no matter how much I try ! Getting frustrated that I should be swimming a continuous mile by now, but can't seem to get rid of the 30 second breaks ! I'm bi-lateral breathing, on every 3rd stroke which seems to be comfortable.My stroke analyzed by a good coach says that my stroke is pretty efficient, so what am I missing ??? I've only done 1 sprint tri so far, and struggled with the swim, and had to roll over on my back and kick numerous times, so I could catch my breath.


2013-01-03 2:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

If you can only swim 50 yards w/o needing a break and a coach said you stroke is ok I assume you are going to fast and sprinting. Slow down. Get a pace that feels like "walking". You may also want to consider breathing to one side every other stroke that would get you more breaths than every 3rd.

2013-01-03 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
Slow down a lot. My suspicion is that if the coach things your stroke looks good, but you can't do more than 50 yards without taking a break, he/she is not looking for the right things that are going to help you out.

If you can't slow down, then that means you are using energy just to keep from sinking. Do you feel like this describes you at all?
2013-01-03 2:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
Sidney Porter - 2013-01-03 3:43 PM

If you can only swim 50 yards w/o needing a break and a coach said you stroke is ok I assume you are going to fast and sprinting. Slow down. Get a pace that feels like "walking". You may also want to consider breathing to one side every other stroke that would get you more breaths than every 3rd.

Yeah, I agree. I would get a second opinion on your stroke efficiency.

Have you tried swimming 25's with less rest? Maybe doing some sets of 10 x 25 @ :10 Rest could help. Then do your 10 x 50 @ :30 Rest and back to 10 x 25 @ :10 Rest. 

2013-01-03 3:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

x whatever on slowing down.

Try an experiment.  Swim 25 yards as SLOW as you possibly can.  Then apply that same effort to 50 yards and see if you still need a 30 second breather at the end.  I also think you will be surprised at how "fast" your "slow" pace is.

2013-01-03 3:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

I swim about as well as an anchor.  Sp take my advice for what its worth, but it may be tension and nerves holding you back.  I have found that it isn't until about 100 yards in that I truly settle in to my stroke, and relax in the water and it gets a little easier.

Kind of like when I run, it seems the first half mile my body is fighting me over this whole running thing.  Sometimes  you just have to suck it up and not give your body the choice, cause its always going to choose the easy way.



2013-01-03 3:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
You might need to slow your pace and breathe more...... if you can't do 50 and you have a good stroke its got to be a lack of oxygen. I had the same problem when i started and my coach recommended that i take a breath every time i started my pull with my right arm... once i got that timing down i had more time to take a breath and it improved my endurance in the pool dramatically   
2013-01-03 3:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

Really sounds like you're sprinting.  Other than slowing down, remember to breathe out continuously under water, and to turn your head backward to breathe in to clear your mouth from the front wake.   Also play with breathing cycles.  Since you can breath bilaterally, you can choose when you want to breathe in.  No need to change sides or do it every 3rd stroke.   Keep going when you think you  can't, but turn on your back momentarily and take a breath instead of stopping at the wall.  That way you can choose exactly when you need the rest and not be bound by the "glass ceiling" of the end of the pool.

2013-01-03 4:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
assuming you are breathing correctly...slow down
2013-01-03 4:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

my coach and I thought it was pace, but if I swim any slower, my stroke goes to crap. I use a tempo trainer clipped to my goggles, so I'm staying at a consistant pace.I thought about going up for air every other stroke instead of third, but that means breathing to 1 side only, instead of bi-lateral, which I was really trying to avoid, because I really think it will negatively affect my form. I guess I will have to try this anyway and see what happens.The suggestion about flipping over on my back to catch my breath once in awhile is a good idea, and maintain swimming instead of stopping at the wall ,until I don't need to do it anymore. I know my form isn't perfect by any means, but the feedback I get from coaches,and other experienced swimmers is that it is decent. I've got a good carb-loaded diet,non-smoker, 6 ft. 4" 174 lbs. ,7% body fat, runner,do weights 1 or 2 times per wk.

I'm trying to gain some shoulder/upper body strength to help knock this prob out , but I don't think it is the direct problem.

2013-01-03 4:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

Force yourself to swim longer.  I had this issue, like a lot of beginner swimmers.  It was probably a combination of poor breathing technique and needing to slow way down.  I finally got over the hump after 5 days of swim lessons when I finally forced myself to swim 50, then 75, then 100 without stopping.  Within a couple weeks of plugging away at some point everything clicked and I swam 1000m without stopping.  For me looking back on my logs I did lots of swimming with a pull buoy and lots of kick drills with the kickboard.

Here are my logs from when I was going through it: 

 http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/index-weekly.asp?memberid=113919&year=2010&month=5&day=16

I swam 1000m continuously for the first time on 05/16/2010.  The swim lessons were 04/26/10-04/30/10.  Before that I had never swam more than 25m without taking a break in my entire life.



2013-01-03 4:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
JZig - 2013-01-03 2:32 PM

Force yourself to swim longer.  I had this issue, like a lot of beginner swimmers.  It was probably a combination of poor breathing technique and needing to slow way down.  I finally got over the hump after 5 days of swim lessons when I finally forced myself to swim 50, then 75, then 100 without stopping.  Within a couple weeks of plugging away at some point everything clicked and I swam 1000m without stopping.  For me looking back on my logs I did lots of swimming with a pull buoy and lots of kick drills with the kickboard.

Here are my logs from when I was going through it: 

 http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/index-weekly.asp?memberid=113919&year=2010&month=5&day=16

I swam 1000m continuously for the first time on 05/16/2010.  The swim lessons were 04/26/10-04/30/10.  Before that I had never swam more than 25m without taking a break in my entire life.

^^^^^^^THIS.

A little ways into my swimming, I was having similar problem.  On day, I was doing a set with XX rest intervals (can't remember the exact number of seconds).  I always took a few extra seconds because I still felt out of breath.  I just decided one time to just go on the correct time, no matter how I felt.  Did the entire set on the prescribed rest with no issues.  It was completely a mental issue for me.  Slow down, ease up on your kick, and just force yourself.

I also started out with breathing every 2 strokes until I was comfortable, then started to force myself to breathe bilaterally. 

2013-01-03 4:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
icemachineman - 2013-01-03 3:31 PM

my coach and I thought it was pace, but if I swim any slower, my stroke goes to crap. I use a tempo trainer clipped to my goggles, so I'm staying at a consistant pace.I thought about going up for air every other stroke instead of third, but that means breathing to 1 side only, instead of bi-lateral, which I was really trying to avoid, because I really think it will negatively affect my form. I guess I will have to try this anyway and see what happens.The suggestion about flipping over on my back to catch my breath once in awhile is a good idea, and maintain swimming instead of stopping at the wall ,until I don't need to do it anymore. I know my form isn't perfect by any means, but the feedback I get from coaches,and other experienced swimmers is that it is decent. I've got a good carb-loaded diet,non-smoker, 6 ft. 4" 174 lbs. ,7% body fat, runner,do weights 1 or 2 times per wk.

I'm trying to gain some shoulder/upper body strength to help knock this prob out , but I don't think it is the direct problem.




What tempo are you using and how many strokes does it take to get across the pool?

Swimmign is definately not a strength issue, at least not for the stage you are in. Mostly releaxing, balancing, staying streamlined and not panicking. (Not saying you are, but those are the common things)
2013-01-03 4:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
bcraht - 2013-01-03 3:41 PM
On day, I was doing a set with XX rest intervals (can't remember the exact number of seconds).  I always took a few extra seconds because I still felt out of breath.  I just decided one time to just go on the correct time, no matter how I felt.  Did the entire set on the prescribed rest with no issues.  It was completely a mental issue for me.   



This is a great point. If you think about when you bike or run at an easy endurance pace...if you were to suddenly stop you'd still be breathing rapidly for a few minutes. But that doesn't sstop you from resuming at hte pace you were just doing. In swimming it's a matter of getting your breathing mechanics sond so that it matches your breathing needs, then both can progress. But breathing quickly at the end of a 50 or a 100 doesn't necessarily mean you can't keep swimming.

Great point, Bcraht!
2013-01-03 5:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
when I have tried to keep pushing through, or cutting the time down, I can still swim, but it no longer looks like  a swim stroke, it looks like a sad attempt at the Freestyle stroke,and looks more like the drowning man stroke. The finis tempo trainer is set to 1:30 . I know some of this is a mental game, because the running training to me has a lot of the same challenges to overcome, and I've been able to get in a comfortable level of cardio with it, but got an eye-opener when it came to attaining swim endurance. I thought running cardio would transfer over pretty well to swim cardio, but I learned the answer to that is definitely NO !
2013-01-03 5:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

icemachineman - 2013-01-03 3:24 PM when I have tried to keep pushing through, or cutting the time down, I can still swim, but it no longer looks like  a swim stroke, it looks like a sad attempt at the Freestyle stroke,and looks more like the drowning man stroke. The finis tempo trainer is set to 1:30 . I know some of this is a mental game, because the running training to me has a lot of the same challenges to overcome, and I've been able to get in a comfortable level of cardio with it, but got an eye-opener when it came to attaining swim endurance. I thought running cardio would transfer over pretty well to swim cardio, but I learned the answer to that is definitely NO !

This is because compared to running swimming is very technique driven.  If you have the cardio to run for 30 minutes without stopping you also have the cardio to swim for 30 minutes without stopping, but only if your technique is good.



2013-01-03 7:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
I had the same issue about 8 weeks ago, I couldn't go more than 50 yards at a time without stopping for a rest. My problem was purely mental. One day I decided that if I was going to tackle this triathlon thing, I was going to have to swim a little bit further than 50 yards at a time. I challenged myself to just swim as long/far as I could without stopping. After the first 100 I thought I was going to die, but I kept going, by the next 100, I had gotten a lot more comfortable, and after about 500 yards I got bored and stopped. I have since completed the 0-1mile swimming plan. Like I said, for me it was completely a mental issue.
2013-01-03 8:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

In addition to what everyone else has said (good advice!) I'd suggest making sure you're relaxed in the water.  Being tense in the water will eat away at your endurance quite a bit.  I have personally experienced this and can share that as I've gotten more relaxed, my swimming and swim endurance have improved dramatically!

 

Note: relaxing does include controlling yourself when you feel like you need a breath but its not the 2nd/3rd stroke.  It takes practice and keeping your mind on it but it will help.

2013-01-03 8:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
DBGlobal - 2013-01-03 8:19 PM

I had the same issue about 8 weeks ago, I couldn't go more than 50 yards at a time without stopping for a rest. My problem was purely mental. One day I decided that if I was going to tackle this triathlon thing, I was going to have to swim a little bit further than 50 yards at a time. I challenged myself to just swim as long/far as I could without stopping. After the first 100 I thought I was going to die, but I kept going, by the next 100, I had gotten a lot more comfortable, and after about 500 yards I got bored and stopped. I have since completed the 0-1mile swimming plan. Like I said, for me it was completely a mental issue.


When I start pushing beyond 50 yards, especially at 100, my muscles feel really sore and tense which causes me to feel as if i have bad form and stopy swimming. This happen to anyone? Is this mental and I just need to HTFU? Or is it an acclimation thing and swimming more will work that out.
2013-01-04 2:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

It's all in your mind!

You don't need to catch your breath completely before starting on the next one, and you really don't need those 30sec breathers. If your technique is as good as your coach said, it's all in your mind.

Try using active recovery instead of breathers: Alternate crawl and back stroke every 50, no break, no breathers. When you can do, say 20x50, like this, try repeats of 75 crawl + 25 back stroke, no break no breathers.

BR

2013-01-04 8:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
I am certianly not an expert but I think you have balance issue's. If you can't swim slow without your "stroke falling apart", I think you need to be better balanced in the water. Do you kick alot to keep from sinking? If that sounds like you then you need to work on your stroke tech. I had a problem with breathing and this was the issue, also as stated you need to relaxe and try breathing everyother stroke. Keep at it and good luck.


2013-01-04 12:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

If you feel that endurance is your problem then try the 0-1650 program.  Do it.  

http://ruthkazez.com/ZeroTo1mile.html

 

2013-01-04 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

If you stroke breaks down at a pace slower than 1:30, I don't think you stroke is as good as your coach is letting you believe.

If it is a balance issue are you wearing jammers? Normal swim trunks and really mess up your balance.

2013-01-04 1:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)
Sounds like you're having the same problem I did early on; you're holding your breath.
Swim breathing should be the same as running or biking; you're either breathing in or out, NEVER holding your breath in between.
Exhales should be complete, not shallow. Inhales should also be full, not a quick gasp. Until you master this, I would suggest timing your stroke to your breathing; keep your head down until you've emptied your lungs (blow the air out!), then allow enough time when your head comes up to get a good lungfull of air.
I promise, you'll be able to swim as long as you want without stopping!
2013-01-04 2:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim training for continuous mile swim (no luck)

icemachineman - 2013-01-03 2:39 PM

I'm bi-lateral breathing, on every 3rd stroke which seems to be comfortable.

You're cheating yourself of the 50% more air you'd be getting if you'd breathe to one side.  You may seem to be comfortable, but the fact that you have to stop means you are driving yourself into oxygen debt (likely pace related, as well, but the breathing issue doesn't help).

The idea that bilateral breathing is somehow good for you is a myth.  

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