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2013-01-17 1:59 PM

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Subject: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

Boy is it a coin flip when I head out for a training session after work.

I try and train 5 days a week (Monday - Friday) early morning (biking on my trainer, or swimming) before work. 3 of those 5 days I also run after work. The runs are typically between 40min and 80min. 

Here is what I can't figure out - on many of my runs (about 40% of them, possibly more), when I am less than 5km into the run I will get an extremely weak feeling all over my body, sometimes light headed, sometimes my hands are a bit shaky. My run slows to a walk at best. I slam a gel, and walk for another 5minutes, then start jogging a bit. Before I know it, I am back to feeling okay again and back on pace. As I said above, I run for a total of 40-80min depending on the day.

I hate this weak feeling, this light-headedness, having to walk on an easy run at an easy pace. I need to figure out why it keeps happening. And I certainly shouldn't need to take a gel or any food in during these runs imo since they are 80min or less.

I am convinced it is must be related to my nutrition or hydration during the day. That being said I have made sure I drank plenty through the day, and it still happened. Other times I have had plenty to eat through the day, and it still happened. I typically eat 2 lunches (one at around noon, and another at around 3:30pm). I also snack in between. I start running typically at 5:30pm.

Anyone have any thoughts? Anyone experience this before? 

maybe I just need to eat more.... 



2013-01-17 2:50 PM
in reply to: #4582953

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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
What kind of snack at 3:30? Full of carbs? Thought maybe hypoglycemia, but with a snack within a relatively close time to your run, its puzzling. But, the gel does help.
2013-01-17 3:02 PM
in reply to: #4583067

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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

It certainly varies (the two lunches), but they are almost always leftovers from dinner the night before that have been split into two even meals.

My snacking between meals is first apple, banana, and then occasionally the treat of a rice crispy square or chocolate. 

 

2013-01-17 5:20 PM
in reply to: #4582953

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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
How much sleep are you getting?  With work, training, and real life it makes for a lot to deal with everyday.  Without adequate sleep, I find that I just get tired by the latter part of the day.
2013-01-17 7:35 PM
in reply to: #4583393

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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

Honestly, I fall asleep every night the second I hit the pillow. Probably 11pm or so. Three days a week I am up at 5:15am, and 2 days a week I am up at 5:45am. 

During the week ~ 6 or 6.5 hours/night

Weekend ~8-9 hours/night

Can sleep deprivation cause the symptoms I am having? Keep in mind I am good for the first bit of the run, then hit a really tough spot, then recover from it somehow and keep going for another 30min or more. 

I am usually averaging 7:30/mile (running comfortable), but when that feeling hits me, its like a brick wall.

2013-01-17 7:39 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

Do you eat enough and soon enough after your first workout? http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa081403.htm



2013-01-17 7:48 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
MichelleK - 2013-01-17 8:39 PM

Do you eat enough and soon enough after your first workout? http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa081403.htm

[... don't really pay attention to exact timing of eating after workout. Come to think of it, I usually grab a shower as quickly as possible and then hit the road (1 hr drive to work). From the looks of most articles, it would seem that I haven't been paying enough attention to my post workout nutrition. Perhaps a protein shake immediately after a workout would be a good idea?

2013-01-17 8:16 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

if you feel better after the gel, it might be a nutrition thing leading up to your workout. if you don't already do so, maybe keep a log for a week so you can sit down and analyze what seems to work and what doesn't. definitely work taking some notes on so you can determine the different between the good and bad days.

2013-01-17 8:44 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
crmorton - 2013-01-17 5:48 PM
MichelleK - 2013-01-17 8:39 PM

Do you eat enough and soon enough after your first workout? http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa081403.htm

[... don't really pay attention to exact timing of eating after workout. Come to think of it, I usually grab a shower as quickly as possible and then hit the road (1 hr drive to work). From the looks of most articles, it would seem that I haven't been paying enough attention to my post workout nutrition. Perhaps a protein shake immediately after a workout would be a good idea?

Some people swear by chocolate milk because of its mix protein and carbs for a post workout drink. Hey, Olympic swimmers seem to like it Smile http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/03/sports/la-sp-on-chocolate-milk-olympic-swimming-0120803  Good luck! 

2013-01-17 9:01 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
I don't know man, but that happens to me all the time. I don't really track my nutrition but I eat pretty much the same thing. I get the same sleep. Some days I kill that second (or third) workout and sometimes it kills me.
2013-01-18 8:14 AM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
Maybe try some protein with the snack before the second workout. I know I tend to get blood sugar spikes and then crash fairly quickly if my snack is just simple carbs (which it sounds like your are) esp. if I'm tired already. Might be as simply as adding a few nuts or some peanut butter with the fruit. That can help keep your blood sugar levels more stable and avoid an energy crash.

Edited by Hot Runner 2013-01-18 8:15 AM


2013-01-18 8:28 AM
in reply to: #4584050

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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

Sounds like a really good start. Thanks everyone.

#1 - nutrition log of what I eat and when I eat

#2 - Get some protein in my snacks and try to avoid just eating simple carbs

I hope my run tonight goes well.

2013-01-18 8:44 AM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

One more thing: Are you running on swim days or bike days?

I have no problem running on swim days, but bike days are hard. No surprise, in the swim I use mainly upper body, on the bike lower body, and on the run lower body. Consider alternating run and bike days.

2013-01-18 9:08 AM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
crmorton - 2013-01-17 2:59 PM

on many of my runs (about 40% of them, possibly more), when I am less than 5km into the run I will get an extremely weak feeling all over my body, sometimes light headed, sometimes my hands are a bit shaky. My run slows to a walk at best. 

 

If I were having symptoms like these I would not go for another run until I had seen a doctor.

2013-01-18 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
Doctor or nutritionist?
2013-01-18 3:05 PM
in reply to: #4584117

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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

2 weekdays (morning swim, evening run)

1 weekday (morning bike, evening run)

other 2 weekdays (just bike in the morning)

I am leaning towards nutritionist, but I have a feeling that a nutritionist will not be able to help unless I can tell her specifics of my diet (must maintain nutrition log first)

Perhaps by then I will already have an answer.

I guess the Doctor would be worthwhile if there was something more serious going on that I didn't realize. I just recently switched doctors (6months ago) and had a full set of blood work done. Everything checked out okay there. Also my blood pressure was norm and HR nice a low like usual (48 or so BPM resting HR).

 

 



2013-01-18 3:27 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

matcrawf - 2013-01-18 3:56 PM Doctor or nutritionist?

 

Doctor. Sorry, I should have said more. What the OP described (an extremely weak feeling that hits like a brick wall and slows him from a 7:30 pace to a walk) sounds pretty scary to me, especially since it's happening so regularly. Maybe it's just a nutrition issue, but I'd want to get checked out to make sure it isn't something more serious.

Is it something new that started since your last visit to the doctor?

 

2013-01-18 3:55 PM
in reply to: #4585189

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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

I had certainly happened many times over the past couple years (as far as I can recall), but it is happening more regularly now. Perhaps I am just working out 2x per day more often now. Also, back 2 years ago, I was a gel junkie (I felt like I always needed to have a gel before a workout, 45min into a workout, etc.). So it is likely that may have been a factor in my reduced frequency of episodes (the extra gels compensated for the supposed nutritional deficit I had been running with). 



Edited by crmorton 2013-01-18 3:56 PM
2013-01-19 5:06 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
The gel junkie issue suggests again that this is blood-sugar related. Symptoms seem very typical of hypoglycemia. But if the episodes put you in danger of passing out, yes, I'd definitely see a doctor.
2013-01-19 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
crmorton - 2013-01-18 4:55 PM

I had certainly happened many times over the past couple years (as far as I can recall), but it is happening more regularly now. Perhaps I am just working out 2x per day more often now. Also, back 2 years ago, I was a gel junkie (I felt like I always needed to have a gel before a workout, 45min into a workout, etc.). So it is likely that may have been a factor in my reduced frequency of episodes (the extra gels compensated for the supposed nutritional deficit I had been running with). 

I almost asked the same question. I've had this happen to me a few times. Light headedness during a run mostly. Really annoying. Maybe dumb question, but how's your overall hydration? 

2013-01-19 7:11 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

I would say track your nutrition as others have stated. Also go to bed earlier at night than you are. You should be getting at min 7 hours of sleep but closer to 8 from what I recall.  

I have noticed that my 2nd workouts during the day can at times not be as good and usually I find it because of food eaten and also because of lack of water. 

Also are you trying to do 2 hard workouts in the same day? Anyways  best of luck with things



2013-01-21 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good
Hot Runner - 2013-01-19 5:06 PM

The gel junkie issue suggests again that this is blood-sugar related. Symptoms seem very typical of hypoglycemia. But if the episodes put you in danger of passing out, yes, I'd definitely see a doctor.


See, that's what I was thinking... low blood sugar.

I get low blood sugar sometimes, which is directly related to me not eating enough, and I get light-headed, shaky and I start to sweat profusely. The quick fix is sugar in my system.

I can get episodes when I'm just sitting around or exercising. And typically I get them when I have dropped my calories to lose weight.

2013-01-21 2:01 PM
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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

Yeah, the blood sugar thing looks like the culprit. I am going to experiment this week focusing on more complex carbs for all snacks to avoid spikes in my blood sugar levels (essentially, instead of fruit and any sweets I may normally consume, I am going to have carrots + broccoli + cheese/crackers).

I hope this does the trick. If not, I am still going to be keeping a nutrition log (started yesterday) that I can analyse or take with me to a nutritionist. 

Thankfully I have never been in danger of passing out, and hopefully that will never happen.

Thanks everyone for the information and suggestions. 

2013-01-21 2:09 PM
in reply to: #4582953


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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

I don't think it's a big deal. If you're ramping up volume, your body will respond a bit awry for the first 1-2 weeks of doing doubles while it acclimates to the volume. Happened to me a lot at the beginning of last season, I HTFU'd up, and it went away.

 

For me, it definitely correlated with how hard workout #1 was. If I hammered #1 and then tried to hammer #2 but wasn't quite in shape for it, I got a big slowdown on #2. It went away as I got more in shape, and then could hammer even 3 SBR workouts in a single day.

2013-01-21 2:09 PM
in reply to: #4582953


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Subject: RE: the 2nd workout of the day, some days bad, some days good

I don't think it's a big deal. If you're ramping up volume, your body will respond a bit awry for the first 1-2 weeks of doing doubles while it acclimates to the volume. Happened to me a lot at the beginning of last season, I HTFU'd up, and it went away.

 

For me, it definitely correlated with how hard workout #1 was. If I hammered #1 and then tried to hammer #2 but wasn't quite in shape for it, I got a big slowdown on #2. It went away as I got more in shape, and then could hammer even 3 SBR workouts in a single day.

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