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2013-02-05 8:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
Quintillion - 2013-02-05 5:12 AM If the "car" is your body then why would you want your "wheels" to fall off? That potentially equals a popped joint, torn ligament, muscle or tendon. Potential hospital stay or having to give up sports altogether. Outrageous coaching session.

CF is to fitness what NASCAR is to motor racing!

 

Not exactly.  There are solid principles behind Crossfit.  The problem is the message out of home base and the fact many of the "boxes" practice it in a very distorted manner.  If you find a box that goes say heavy Oly lifts up front and then movements that are safe to do in a circuit for time after the Oly lifts you can see safe and quick results. 



2013-02-05 9:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
uhcoog - 2013-02-05 2:50 PM
Quintillion - 2013-02-05 5:12 AM If the "car" is your body then why would you want your "wheels" to fall off? That potentially equals a popped joint, torn ligament, muscle or tendon. Potential hospital stay or having to give up sports altogether. Outrageous coaching session.

CF is to fitness what NASCAR is to motor racing!

 

Not exactly.  There are solid principles behind Crossfit.  The problem is the message out of home base and the fact many of the "boxes" practice it in a very distorted manner.  If you find a box that goes say heavy Oly lifts up front and then movements that are safe to do in a circuit for time after the Oly lifts you can see safe and quick results. 

So it really depends on the trainer you have then? CF seems to be sort of franchised and I wonder what kind of qualifications these guys have if that is the advice they give

2013-02-05 7:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
Uhcoog is right - a good box with good trainers will provide workouts that are not so insane.
2013-02-05 8:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work

A good trainer is critical (for any program).  CF utilizes a certification system that they run.  From what I can tell, $1000/weekend course for a level 1 certification.  Same price again to do the level 2 certification, which IIRC, would qualify you to have the opportunity to franchise a box.  So I have serious questions about the quality of certification.  But that's a can of worms with the entire fitness industry.

The CF methods really aren't anything new - but it is marketed well.  

What I would look for (if I were going to do CF) - level 2 CF cert (because they would have to have their certification) + CSCS (certified strength and conditioning specialist) and/or USAW certification (USA weightlifting) + BS in kinesiology/exercise science + several years of experience.  I would also want to see a required beginners course with WODs posted with scaling recommendations.

2013-02-06 3:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
apglave - 2013-02-05 9:29 PM

A good trainer is critical (for any program).  CF utilizes a certification system that they run.  From what I can tell, $1000/weekend course for a level 1 certification.  Same price again to do the level 2 certification, which IIRC, would qualify you to have the opportunity to franchise a box.  So I have serious questions about the quality of certification.  But that's a can of worms with the entire fitness industry.

The CF methods really aren't anything new - but it is marketed well.  

What I would look for (if I were going to do CF) - level 2 CF cert (because they would have to have their certification) + CSCS (certified strength and conditioning specialist) and/or USAW certification (USA weightlifting) + BS in kinesiology/exercise science + several years of experience.  I would also want to see a required beginners course with WODs posted with scaling recommendations.

IME, any certification that only requires a one day or weekend course is going to be very limited in value. I've done 1-3 day clinics that have been awesome where I've learned a lot, but they cannot cover enough in that time to fully prepare someone to be a trainer. I agree with looking for other qualifications in a CF trainer, but feel that needing a CSCS and bachelor degree are overkill. A good nationally recognized cert, such as NASM, NSCA, ACE, or ACSM, practical experience and some common sense are adequate.
2013-02-06 6:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
CF cert requirements sure beat the requirement to be a BeachBody coach. Tongue out   But yeah...If that's all they've got... 


2013-02-06 6:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
Then again...it seems the basic programming is general fitness - almost like programming a group fitness class.  If you've had the individual techniques hammered into your head, then why not?  A software program could easily spit out the WOD you write on the board...or a one or two hour session on "pick something from each of these categories for each workout" might be enough.
2013-02-06 8:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
Zero2Athlete - 2013-02-06 6:50 AM

Then again...it seems the basic programming is general fitness - almost like programming a group fitness class.  If you've had the individual techniques hammered into your head, then why not?  A software program could easily spit out the WOD you write on the board...or a one or two hour session on "pick something from each of these categories for each workout" might be enough.


I've often wondered whether the WODs aren't just a product of an array of exercises matched with a random number generator. For the most part I think that's all it is.

As for the certifications, yeah, it seems like everyone and their brother is offering some type of fitness cert. Even the reputable certs need some improving. I do (did) Olympic lifting at a Crossfit box. The guy who runs it is really big on correctly teaching the right technique. He is USAW certified. There is a dedicated Olympic lifting coach (my coach) who is also USAW certified. Neither use the USAW teaching progressions because they both found something better. They also don't use the Crossfit Olympic teaching progressions, whatever that may be.
2013-02-07 6:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work

I agree - many certifications are pretty worthless.  I specify CSCS or USAW specifically because of the  Olympic and powerlifting moves often used in WODs.  These are technical lifts with high injury potential.  

NASM is great for general fitness (their OPT is awesome for beginning trainers because it helps them understand putting workouts together).  Their PES (performance enhancement specialist) gets more into the advanced lifting techniques, but isn't as extensive as CSCS.  ACSM certifications focus on general population (PT) to clinical (Clinical Exercise Specialist and Physiologist) and special populations but don't have much emphasis on Olympic or powerlifting.  ACE has similar issues.

I'm biased toward a BS because I am a college professor.  BUT there are a lot of things students coming out of college programs should get that you just can't get from certification programs.  I have just seen too many trainers with little to no understanding of basic exercise physiology, motor learning, and biomechanics prescribing workouts that range from harmless and ineffective to ineffective with high injury potential.

If you want to get right down to it, neither the certification nor BS are actually necessary, nor do they tell you much about the trainer other than they can jump through hoops.  The important thing is to evaluate the trainer very closely.  Unfortunately most people don't know what to look for, so saying look for these qualifications is the easiest thing to do.

(Sorry about the soapbox.  Since this is my field, I get kind of uppity.  I'm not saying people without college degrees in kinesiology/exercise science shouldn't be training.  I'm saying that it's an easy thing to look for.)

2013-02-07 6:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work

MikeTheBear - 2013-02-06 9:38 PM  I've often wondered whether the WODs aren't just a product of an array of exercises matched with a random number generator. For the most part I think that's all it is.

 

That certainly would support the crossfit "constant variation" thing that's in their basic doctrine.

2013-02-07 11:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
apglave - 2013-02-07 7:44 AM

I agree - many certifications are pretty worthless.  I specify CSCS or USAW specifically because of the  Olympic and powerlifting moves often used in WODs.  These are technical lifts with high injury potential.  

NASM is great for general fitness (their OPT is awesome for beginning trainers because it helps them understand putting workouts together).  Their PES (performance enhancement specialist) gets more into the advanced lifting techniques, but isn't as extensive as CSCS.  ACSM certifications focus on general population (PT) to clinical (Clinical Exercise Specialist and Physiologist) and special populations but don't have much emphasis on Olympic or powerlifting.  ACE has similar issues.

I'm biased toward a BS because I am a college professor.  BUT there are a lot of things students coming out of college programs should get that you just can't get from certification programs.  I have just seen too many trainers with little to no understanding of basic exercise physiology, motor learning, and biomechanics prescribing workouts that range from harmless and ineffective to ineffective with high injury potential.

If you want to get right down to it, neither the certification nor BS are actually necessary, nor do they tell you much about the trainer other than they can jump through hoops.  The important thing is to evaluate the trainer very closely.  Unfortunately most people don't know what to look for, so saying look for these qualifications is the easiest thing to do.

(Sorry about the soapbox.  Since this is my field, I get kind of uppity.  I'm not saying people without college degrees in kinesiology/exercise science shouldn't be training.  I'm saying that it's an easy thing to look for.)

I agree 100% with the bold part.  I actually prefer a BS when hiring a less experienced trainer, but have found that someone without the degree, but years of experience and continuing education can be equally, or even more, qualified.  I have both working for me, and honestly, both groups do an excellent job.

 



2013-02-07 7:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
Exactly.  And the continuing education part is critical.  I guess it comes down to being passionate about what you're doing.  People who really love this stuff are usually pretty good trainers.
2013-03-07 10:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work

Late to the party, and perhaps irrelevant to where the conversation went, but... of the 10 high level triathletes I know who have tried CFE for a season, 9 of them had average finishes 10-15% slower than previous seasons, and the 10th had to cancel season due to injury (not CF related).  

Also further food for thought- Brian MacKenzie, the CFE "founder", was a decent ultra runner before he started CFE himself, and since then has DNFed every ultra he's participated in.

This is all separate from my viewpoints on CrossFit itself (I personally hugely respect those who excel at the sport, and it truly is its own sport...  and a challenging one at that!), but says a bit about CFE.

2013-03-08 8:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work

I have agreed with all the benefits of cross fit but I find it very tough to do, there is no consistency in my workout.

2013-03-26 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
I have done a lot of different distance races from sprints to IM and 5k's to ultras and IMO and me personally, I think that CF (type) workouts can only help. The part that kills me is that people talk about CF as if no one had ever thought of that before. To a large extent that is how people are supposed to workout. Body weight movements, compound movements, oly lifts. These exercises have stood the test of time for a reason. They represent athleticsm. Some of the first people to ever race in the IM were Navy SEALs, which if you look at their workouts, are pretty similar to CF. I think in the end everyone wants to feel that their way is best. Endurance athletes think their way of training is best while Crossfitters believe that their way is best. For the people in contention I 100% believe in sport specific training, for the other 99% of us, I 100% believe in working on our neuromuscular systems for best results of pure body movements.
2013-03-26 3:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work
mpento17 - 2013-01-23 5:55 PM

I'm interested in adding in some Crossfit workouts, but never having done it, the roadblock is the cost of the CF gyms in my area.  They seem really expensive, and since I have to keep my current gym membership for access to the pool and treadmills, it's just cost prohibitive.  Any ideas/suggestions?  Am I missing something?

Thanks.



You can check out the website, they post what they call the WOD (Workout Of the Day). I check everyday, if the WOD looks like something I can do without killing myself, not typical, or something I can easily scale then I copy it to a word doc. Just pick one before I leave for the gym.

Few of my favorites...

Four rounds for time of:
Run 400 meters
50 Squats

Three rounds for time of:
Row 500 meters
21 Burpees
Run 400 meters

6 rounds for time of:
Run 400 meters
25 Burpees

"Kelly"
Five rounds for time of:
Run 400 meters
30 Box jump, 24 inch box
30 Wall ball shots, 20 pound ball

Ten rounds for time of:
135 pound Deadlift, 15 reps
15 push-ups

Linda
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1
1.5 BW Deadlift
1.0 BW Benchpress
0.75 BW Clean or Power Squat Clean


2013-03-28 9:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Crossfit Endurance - It May Not Work

jeff525w - 2013-03-26 2:17 PM I have done a lot of different distance races from sprints to IM and 5k's to ultras and IMO and me personally, I think that CF (type) workouts can only help. The part that kills me is that people talk about CF as if no one had ever thought of that before. To a large extent that is how people are supposed to workout. Body weight movements, compound movements, oly lifts. These exercises have stood the test of time for a reason. They represent athleticsm. Some of the first people to ever race in the IM were Navy SEALs, which if you look at their workouts, are pretty similar to CF. I think in the end everyone wants to feel that their way is best. Endurance athletes think their way of training is best while Crossfitters believe that their way is best. For the people in contention I 100% believe in sport specific training, for the other 99% of us, I 100% believe in working on our neuromuscular systems for best results of pure body movements.

 

CrossFit TYPE workouts, absolutely.  Well programmed incorporation of bodyweight movements, compound lifts, explosive training, etc. will absolutely make nearly anybody a more well-rounded athlete.  But CrossFit itself, I would not recommend for anybody OTHER than a CrossFitter.  The fact that their WODs are designed to be challenging and designed to NOT follow programming (i.e. "be ready for anything") means it is not ideal for incorporating into any other athlete's training.  Simply choosing a collection of movements at random to perform on a given day with no thought given to long term progression, weekly volume and intensity (of both the strength training and endurance component of the athlete's program) is the surest way to overtax certain systems and undertrain others.

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