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2013-03-03 11:10 PM

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Subject: Fair or am I just an A hole
Today was a great day for the local canyon.  Lots of people out, weather is perfect.  First 5 miles or so is mostly a climb, nothing huge at all, I generally use it to warm up if I haven't hit the trainer first.  Cruising along, few guys spaced apart, guy comes up next to me, like a foot away, doesn't say a word, kind of startled me.  Now mind you, this section has a 6' wide bike lane and I generally like to stay to the right on it as the cars fly through the canyon. And there has been a lot of debris lately, we have had some heavy winds the last week or so.  So the guy wants to just stay next to me, he's not bustin it or layin back. I at first kindly tell him it would be nice to hear him say something as he comes up on me, on your left would be cool. If I had to swerve left and had no idea he was there, we either crash or he gets pushed out into the traffic lane. He says are you serious, why would you do that? Answer, to miss some debris in the road thinking I am the only bike there. I don't look back when I am riding solo, and if I don't hear you coming up on me, I may not hold my line.  He gets all pissed off, gets an attitude and tells me to F off. I told him he probably needed to hustle his butt up this hill and stay out in front of me or he is going to walk really funny with his bike stuffed up his . I know, I lowered myself to his level, but, its just such an easy thing, and courteous to give a quick "on your left" as you're moving on someone.  I guess it's just not the macho thing to do.  I do it, more for me then anything else, as I think its just safer. Am I way off line here?  Maybe I am just getting to be an A hole in my old age!


2013-03-03 11:23 PM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

My response: "Eh."

Could have been better response from both sides, but once you get to that point I've always been a fan of just "turn the other cheek" kind of choices for most circumstances. It could also have been worse. People get angry at each other, it happens.

2013-03-04 12:31 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

I VERY much appreciate a quick on your left announcement, as even though I have a mirror on my left side, I have a tendency to get lost in my thoughts on long rides, and get startled when suddenly someone is right next to me.

Other than saying bless you, I probably would have been right there with you on the aggressive nature of your response. 

And yes you do get more impatient and mouthy as you age.  What is going to happen, they gonna beat up a 60 year old guy?

2013-03-04 2:16 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

If this was a road race, then your comments could be taken as a little A hole-ish.  No reason for the guy to drop the F bomb on you, but if you asked me to say "on your left" during a road race, I'd probably just ignore you.  It's just how road races are.  People expect you to be able to hold your line and ride in close proximity to others without freaking out.  Granted, I wasn't there, and am only trying to "imagine" the scenario in my head...but unless he was trying to impead your line, there is no reason for him to say anything. 

If this was a training ride, then the guy is a d-bag, and the use of his F bomb probably deserved your response...which I found pretty witty.

2013-03-04 5:13 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
I completely agree with you. If you're too our of air of open your mouth to utter those 3 words, then you shouldn't be passing. It's common courtesy and if you can't do that, then find someone else to ride with.

And that's if you pass on the left... if you try to pass on the right, then I will let you know in strong words what I think about it. There's nothing that is more dangerous in a group ride than erratic behavior like this.
2013-03-04 6:29 AM
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2013-03-04 7:12 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

In hindsight there are always better ways to handle things but honestly I would have more than likely said something similar.  Don't sweat it, today's a new day!

 

2013-03-04 7:13 AM
in reply to: #4644935


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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

audiojan - 2013-03-04 6:13 AM I completely agree with you. If you're too our of air of open your mouth to utter those 3 words, then you shouldn't be passing. It's common courtesy and if you can't do that, then find someone else to ride with. And that's if you pass on the left... if you try to pass on the right, then I will let you know in strong words what I think about it. There's nothing that is more dangerous in a group ride than erratic behavior like this.

There have been times though when I have had to pass on the right.  I always anounce it, but I won't cross the solid yellow line to pass another bike.  If you are going to ride slowly, ride to the right.  I have seen slow riders hug that center line and not let anyone pass on the left.

2013-03-04 7:19 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

You're not wrong that some alert would be in order, but I'm going to say that you were wrong for not just stooping to his level, but elevating hostilities.

There's a big difference in my world between "F*** off" and a verbal threat.  Call me all the names you want and I'll let it roll off - life to short to let one stranger harsh my mellow - but, make any threat or posture that indicates there is a possibility of physical violence, and I go into guard dog mode.  I start assessing the threat and the best way to diffuse the situation.  I'll try to avoid violence, but It's not the 50's where things end with a punch to the nose...the scuffle ends when one of us is incapacitated.  Maybe it's just that I from Detroit...but do NOT give me reasonable cause to think you may intend to harm me. 

2013-03-04 7:40 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

Hey some times you can never satisfy everyone, I got cursed at from one girl last year because I did called out passing on your left because it startled her because she didn't hear me comming up behind her, I was a good 8 feet back of her when I made the call as well.

Unfortunately I typically have the same responce as you and return ruddness and vulgarity in spades, I don't tend to do Calm well.

Sounds like its just one of those thing that tends to happen out there some days, he didn't really think about it and you reacted to his inapropriate comment s off the cuff so to speak.

2013-03-04 8:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
I find it strange that the guy comes up and sits next to you.  You should have given him a 4 minute penalty!  But I also find it strange that you say you never know what's behind you when solo.  Perhaps its just much more congested here that its part of my norm.  I don't recall ever being startled by a car, bike or moped passing me.  As far as the words...a little confrontation isn't always a bad thing...you're fine.


2013-03-04 8:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

Coach Gil - 2013-03-03 11:10 PM Today was a great day for the local canyon.  Lots of people out, weather is perfect.  First 5 miles or so is mostly a climb, nothing huge at all, I generally use it to warm up if I haven't hit the trainer first.  Cruising along, few guys spaced apart, guy comes up next to me, like a foot away, doesn't say a word, kind of startled me.  Now mind you, this section has a 6' wide bike lane and I generally like to stay to the right on it as the cars fly through the canyon. And there has been a lot of debris lately, we have had some heavy winds the last week or so.  So the guy wants to just stay next to me, he's not bustin it or layin back. I at first kindly tell him it would be nice to hear him say something as he comes up on me, on your left would be cool. If I had to swerve left and had no idea he was there, we either crash or he gets pushed out into the traffic lane. He says are you serious, why would you do that? Answer, to miss some debris in the road thinking I am the only bike there. I don't look back when I am riding solo, and if I don't hear you coming up on me, I may not hold my line.  He gets all pissed off, gets an attitude and tells me to F off. I told him he probably needed to hustle his butt up this hill and stay out in front of me or he is going to walk really funny with his bike stuffed up his . I know, I lowered myself to his level, but, its just such an easy thing, and courteous to give a quick "on your left" as you're moving on someone.  I guess it's just not the macho thing to do.  I do it, more for me then anything else, as I think its just safer. Am I way off line here?  Maybe I am just getting to be an A hole in my old age!

In my opinion, during the ride is never as time to discuss something like this.  Especially if safety is your main concern.

If someones riding style is bothering you, get away from them (even if it means stopping) and if you have to address it at a later date, do so.

2013-03-04 9:35 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
Few years back while training during the winter I had something like this happen. I was doing a long ride on my cyclocross bike. Busting down a local walking and biking trail. A recent storm had blown tress down. Doing around 18mph I bunny hopped some tree debris and hear a loud crashing sound behind me. Turns out some dude had been riding my wheel without me knowing it. I stopped when I heard the crash and he was pretty F'd up. Guy started yelling and swearing at me for not calling out hazards. He really pi#%ed. I started rationalize with him, gave up quickly, asked if he had a cell phone which he did, told him he was a wheel sucking dbag and to call someone for help. I put this people into the can't fix stupid category.
2013-03-04 9:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

Coach Gil - 2013-03-03 11:10 PM Today was a great day for the local canyon.  Lots of people out, weather is perfect.  First 5 miles or so is mostly a climb, nothing huge at all, I generally use it to warm up if I haven't hit the trainer first.  Cruising along, few guys spaced apart, guy comes up next to me, like a foot away, doesn't say a word, kind of startled me.  Now mind you, this section has a 6' wide bike lane and I generally like to stay to the right on it as the cars fly through the canyon. And there has been a lot of debris lately, we have had some heavy winds the last week or so.  So the guy wants to just stay next to me, he's not bustin it or layin back. I at first kindly tell him it would be nice to hear him say something as he comes up on me, on your left would be cool. If I had to swerve left and had no idea he was there, we either crash or he gets pushed out into the traffic lane. He says are you serious, why would you do that? Answer, to miss some debris in the road thinking I am the only bike there. I don't look back when I am riding solo, and if I don't hear you coming up on me, I may not hold my line.  He gets all pissed off, gets an attitude and tells me to F off. I told him he probably needed to hustle his butt up this hill and stay out in front of me or he is going to walk really funny with his bike stuffed up his . I know, I lowered myself to his level, but, its just such an easy thing, and courteous to give a quick "on your left" as you're moving on someone.  I guess it's just not the macho thing to do.  I do it, more for me then anything else, as I think its just safer. Am I way off line here?  Maybe I am just getting to be an A hole in my old age!

Hey you're not in San Antonio are you?  I know you're not, but this is funny to me because almost this exact scenario happened to me this weekend, only I was the guy who made the pass without calling "on your left" and the guy I passed got pissed and screamed at me when he caught up to me at the next stoplight for not saying anything when I passed.  I got pretty agitated because he was screaming at me and made some not so kind remarks back to him because of it.  But we weren't on a group ride or anything, and I gave him plenty of room when I passed.

I won't go into the whole story or anything, in hindsight I probably should have said something.  But it does go to show that there are always two sides to every story.  I'm sure that guy is on the interwebs somewhere saying the same thing to his buddies.

2013-03-04 10:20 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

For me, I always get a kick out of someone being mad because something did or didn't happen that MIGHT have caused an accident. 

Nothing bad happened, and you still felt the need to correct the guy? 

I don't think that necessarily makes you an A hole....but if you're going to correct someone for not doing something you think they should have done, when nothing bad happened from what they didn't do to begin with, you might as well expect to get told to f-off.  That's not necessarily the right response either.....but it's certainly one way to respond.

 

2013-03-04 10:26 AM
in reply to: #4645010

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
happyscientist - 2013-03-04 6:13 AM

audiojan - 2013-03-04 6:13 AM I completely agree with you. If you're too our of air of open your mouth to utter those 3 words, then you shouldn't be passing. It's common courtesy and if you can't do that, then find someone else to ride with. And that's if you pass on the left... if you try to pass on the right, then I will let you know in strong words what I think about it. There's nothing that is more dangerous in a group ride than erratic behavior like this.

There have been times though when I have had to pass on the right.  I always anounce it, but I won't cross the solid yellow line to pass another bike.  If you are going to ride slowly, ride to the right.  I have seen slow riders hug that center line and not let anyone pass on the left.



X2 - I passed a couple people on the right just this last weekend... in both cases there was a huge shoulder and the riders were riding on the left, close to the yellow line, where debris was minimal. Not wanting to cross into the vehicle lane to pass, I announced and passed right where there was plenty of room.


2013-03-04 10:29 AM
in reply to: #4645282

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Albuquerque, NM
Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
magic - 2013-03-04 8:35 AM

Few years back while training during the winter I had something like this happen. I was doing a long ride on my cyclocross bike. Busting down a local walking and biking trail. A recent storm had blown tress down. Doing around 18mph I bunny hopped some tree debris and hear a loud crashing sound behind me. Turns out some dude had been riding my wheel without me knowing it. I stopped when I heard the crash and he was pretty F'd up. Guy started yelling and swearing at me for not calling out hazards. He really pi#%ed. I started rationalize with him, gave up quickly, asked if he had a cell phone which he did, told him he was a wheel sucking dbag and to call someone for help. I put this people into the can't fix stupid category.


I'm sorry the dude went down - but, this is downright hilarious. I have no problem with someone drafting me on a ride as long as they announce their presence. If they don't, and I don't know they are there, then it's their fault if they go down because I suddenly brake, swerve, or whatever.

Edited by RockTractor 2013-03-04 10:30 AM
2013-03-04 10:41 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Memphis, TN
Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
Sounds like the guy was a total noob and got defensive.  Probably could have done without the threat but I'm sure you made an impression on him and maybe he'll think about it and call out "on your left" next time.  Sometimes we need that kind of lesson for it to stick.  I wouldn't worry about it OP.  I'm sure the guy was a bit of a jerk when you called him out so I can see why you "approached" it the way you did. 
2013-03-04 10:42 AM
in reply to: #4645414

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Memphis, TN
Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

RockTractor - 2013-03-04 10:29 AM
magic - 2013-03-04 8:35 AM Few years back while training during the winter I had something like this happen. I was doing a long ride on my cyclocross bike. Busting down a local walking and biking trail. A recent storm had blown tress down. Doing around 18mph I bunny hopped some tree debris and hear a loud crashing sound behind me. Turns out some dude had been riding my wheel without me knowing it. I stopped when I heard the crash and he was pretty F'd up. Guy started yelling and swearing at me for not calling out hazards. He really pi#%ed. I started rationalize with him, gave up quickly, asked if he had a cell phone which he did, told him he was a wheel sucking dbag and to call someone for help. I put this people into the can't fix stupid category.
I'm sorry the dude went down - but, this is downright hilarious. I have no problem with someone drafting me on a ride as long as they announce their presence. If they don't, and I don't know they are there, then it's their fault if they go down because I suddenly brake, swerve, or whatever.

 

I'm of the don't draft anyone you don't know rule.  Certainly don't draft if you don't announce you are back there.  Just not  smart.

2013-03-04 11:07 AM
in reply to: #4644867

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole

Coach Gil - 2013-03-04 12:10 AM Today was a great day for the local canyon.  Lots of people out, weather is perfect.  First 5 miles or so is mostly a climb, nothing huge at all, I generally use it to warm up if I haven't hit the trainer first.  Cruising along, few guys spaced apart, guy comes up next to me, like a foot away, doesn't say a word, kind of startled me.  Now mind you, this section has a 6' wide bike lane and I generally like to stay to the right on it as the cars fly through the canyon. And there has been a lot of debris lately, we have had some heavy winds the last week or so.  So the guy wants to just stay next to me, he's not bustin it or layin back. I at first kindly tell him it would be nice to hear him say something as he comes up on me, on your left would be cool. If I had to swerve left and had no idea he was there, we either crash or he gets pushed out into the traffic lane. He says are you serious, why would you do that? Answer, to miss some debris in the road thinking I am the only bike there. I don't look back when I am riding solo, and if I don't hear you coming up on me, I may not hold my line.  He gets all pissed off, gets an attitude and tells me to F off. I told him he probably needed to hustle his butt up this hill and stay out in front of me or he is going to walk really funny with his bike stuffed up his . I know, I lowered myself to his level, but, its just such an easy thing, and courteous to give a quick "on your left" as you're moving on someone.  I guess it's just not the macho thing to do.  I do it, more for me then anything else, as I think its just safer. Am I way off line here?  Maybe I am just getting to be an A hole in my old age!

I think I'm with you. Assuming you said all this stuff politely like you said, then this guy is an ahole. I do the same thing if I'm passing a solo rider. And I like when I'm alone to know if I'm about to get passed by a cyclist.  I probably would've reacted the same way as you to his attitude of you asking for basic cycling etiquette.

2013-03-04 11:17 AM
in reply to: #4645383

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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
Left Brain - 2013-03-04 11:20 AM

For me, I always get a kick out of someone being mad because something did or didn't happen that MIGHT have caused an accident. 

Nothing bad happened, and you still felt the need to correct the guy? 

I don't think that necessarily makes you an A hole....but if you're going to correct someone for not doing something you think they should have done, when nothing bad happened from what they didn't do to begin with, you might as well expect to get told to f-off.  That's not necessarily the right response either.....but it's certainly one way to respond.

 

So you prefer to wait until an accident actually does happen to correct dangerous behavior?  That's the whole point is that telling the guy that "on your left" would be cool could prevent an accident. That's like saying the police shouldn't ticket someone for dangerous driving if it didn't actually cause an accident.  



2013-03-04 11:35 AM
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Alpharetta, Georgia
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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
Left Brain - 2013-03-04 10:20 AM

For me, I always get a kick out of someone being mad because something did or didn't happen that MIGHT have caused an accident. 

Nothing bad happened, and you still felt the need to correct the guy? 

I don't think that necessarily makes you an A hole....but if you're going to correct someone for not doing something you think they should have done, when nothing bad happened from what they didn't do to begin with, you might as well expect to get told to f-off.  That's not necessarily the right response either.....but it's certainly one way to respond.

 

Yeah, prevention and preventative measures are worthless.

2013-03-04 11:40 AM
in reply to: #4644867


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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
The OP was not the one being an a-hole. I've voiced my opinion on bike etiquette before. The guy who came up on him was in the wrong and equally as impolite after being called on it.
2013-03-04 11:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Fair or am I just an A hole
RookieIM - 2013-03-04 11:17 AM
Left Brain - 2013-03-04 11:20 AM

For me, I always get a kick out of someone being mad because something did or didn't happen that MIGHT have caused an accident. 

Nothing bad happened, and you still felt the need to correct the guy? 

I don't think that necessarily makes you an A hole....but if you're going to correct someone for not doing something you think they should have done, when nothing bad happened from what they didn't do to begin with, you might as well expect to get told to f-off.  That's not necessarily the right response either.....but it's certainly one way to respond.

 

So you prefer to wait until an accident actually does happen to correct dangerous behavior?  That's the whole point is that telling the guy that "on your left" would be cool could prevent an accident. That's like saying the police shouldn't ticket someone for dangerous driving if it didn't actually cause an accident.  

Of course I see your point.....but you're still going to be told to f-off plenty of times.  If you want to be the "corrector", then expect to be told to f-off...it comes with the territory.

As for the part about "prevent an accident".....maybe, maybe not.  There are plenty of folks who break all kinds of rules and laws and never get involved in an accident.  The fact is, most accidents have absolutely nothing to do with "dangerous behavior"....they're just.....accidents.

I've been over the handle bars one time.....clipped the back wheel of a guy passing me when I looked back to see where my kid was and didn't hold my line very well.  He didn't say anything as he passed and I didn't hold my line.  We had a good laugh over it.

 



Edited by Left Brain 2013-03-04 11:54 AM
2013-03-04 12:04 PM
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