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2013-03-28 4:43 PM
in reply to: #4677650

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Calgary, AB
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

Jen -- since you are in Canada, I'll provide some Canada-specific thoughts -- I would heartily recommend investigating buying the car in the US.  It is amazing how much more a Canadian dealer will charge for the same make and model.  Particularly with the Canadian dollar being relatively strong -- and if you're in Toronto, it's easy to pop down to Buffalo or Detroit.

There's a little bit of heartache associated with importing the car into Canada -- paperwork, inspections, etc -- plus you need to pay GST.  But even taking this into account, my wife and I saved nearly $6,000 on our SUV buying in the US.   My parents live in Vancouver, they did the same thing buying cars in Washington state.

One caveat -- very difficult to do this with a new car, as most US dealers are banned from selling a car to be registered in Canada (as I understand it -- there was a lot of pressure from Canadian dealers who were ticked off at cross-border shoppers).  Hence we did this with a very lightly used car (less than 1000 km -- I think it was an early lease return).  



2013-03-28 7:57 PM
in reply to: #4677650

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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

Lots of great advice here.  I'll throw in my two cents of how we do it.

online research, and test drive cars around town to determine which one we want.  Always go in telling them we're 6 months away on the purchase to keep the pressure down.  If they ask why I'm waiting six months I'll come up with some "white lie" about waiting for an inheritance or something stupid.

Once I've decided make/model/color etc... I will look up every dealer in a 50 mile radius selling that car and send an email to their sales department like this...

Hello, My name is Tony and I'm going to be purchasing a Blue 2014 Honda XXX in the next 10 days.  I am emailing the following dealers and whoever gives me the best price over the internet will get my business. If you are unwilling to give me a price over the internet then I will be unable to purchase this vehicle from you.

The vehicle specifications and options I'm looking for are: XXXX

I am sending this email to the following dealers:

Dealer A
Dealer B
Dealer C
Dealer D

Then you sit back and wait for emails and compare the pricing.  Half of the dealers will want you to come in and "talk" to them, but just ignore those.

If you have a trade in then just add the line at the bottom telling them that you have a trade in and you will visit in person the top two bidders to let them give you a trade in quote.  Then whoever gives you the best overall price for car/trade of the two wins the deal.

You're completely up front and there's no haggling or stress in the process.  Also, it's best to have your financing lined up (if possible) before you go in the door to keep them from gouging you on that end.

Also, if you do want to get an extended warranty you don't have to get it when you buy the car.  Buy the car and then do the same thing with the extended warranty.  Shop it around, and you can go national on that one if you want.  We bought a 10 year Honda factory extended warranty online for something like $1400 when the dealers locally were trying to sell it for $4500.

Good luck

2013-03-28 8:02 PM
in reply to: #4677650

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Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
I'm not understanding the finance issue. I have taken dealer financing the last 3 times. They have always beat my credit union rate which I knew ahead of time. So, how have I lost by taking their financing versus taking outside loans?
2013-03-28 8:30 PM
in reply to: #4678640

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Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

pitt83 - 2013-03-28 8:02 PM I'm not understanding the finance issue. I have taken dealer financing the last 3 times. They have always beat my credit union rate which I knew ahead of time. So, how have I lost by taking their financing versus taking outside loans?

It depends on where you go and how educated you are on rates.  There are many ways a dealership can add fee's onto the contract or bump the rate up to make extra money.  My brother in law got rocked when he was younger by an unscrupulous dealer in the financing area.

2013-03-28 8:51 PM
in reply to: #4678666

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Elite
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Spokane, WA
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
tuwood - 2013-03-28 8:30 PM

pitt83 - 2013-03-28 8:02 PM I'm not understanding the finance issue. I have taken dealer financing the last 3 times. They have always beat my credit union rate which I knew ahead of time. So, how have I lost by taking their financing versus taking outside loans?

It depends on where you go and how educated you are on rates.  There are many ways a dealership can add fee's onto the contract or bump the rate up to make extra money.  My brother in law got rocked when he was younger by an unscrupulous dealer in the financing area.

While it's true that some dealerships can take advantage of people that are uneducated on vehicle financing, the financing contract must clearly indicate the interest rate. Your brother in law probably just got suckered and signed a contract that clearly disclosed the high interest rate.

It's a common misconception that credit unions can always beat the dealerships. Dealerships are often part of a large chain and have some real buying power with the banks. Because of course the dealerships are not carrying the loans, they're the middleman with the banks. The smaller lots will risk carrying their own loans, but the dealerships don't. 

I'm sure Pitt did just fine by taking the lower rates with the dealership's banks. I've seen it many times where the banks can beat the credit unions--they're just simply larger and sometimes more competitive on rates.



Edited by zed707 2013-03-28 9:03 PM
2013-03-28 9:47 PM
in reply to: #4678640

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Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

pitt83 - 2013-03-28 8:02 PM I'm not understanding the finance issue. I have taken dealer financing the last 3 times. They have always beat my credit union rate which I knew ahead of time. So, how have I lost by taking their financing versus taking outside loans?

 

It's actually fairly normal for a dealer to beat bank rates.  Indirect lending to dealers will typically be cheaper than rates offered directly by the bank to their customers.  

 

Even my wife who's a manager of a local bank can't get as good a deal on financing with her discounts as she did going through the dealer on her Expedition.



Edited by RussTKD 2013-03-28 9:48 PM


2013-03-29 1:42 AM
in reply to: #4677650

Subject: ...
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Edited by UrsusAdiposimus 2013-03-29 1:50 AM
2013-03-29 9:53 AM
in reply to: #4678690

Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
zed707 - 2013-03-28 8:51 PM
tuwood - 2013-03-28 8:30 PM

pitt83 - 2013-03-28 8:02 PM I'm not understanding the finance issue. I have taken dealer financing the last 3 times. They have always beat my credit union rate which I knew ahead of time. So, how have I lost by taking their financing versus taking outside loans?

It depends on where you go and how educated you are on rates.  There are many ways a dealership can add fee's onto the contract or bump the rate up to make extra money.  My brother in law got rocked when he was younger by an unscrupulous dealer in the financing area.

While it's true that some dealerships can take advantage of people that are uneducated on vehicle financing, the financing contract must clearly indicate the interest rate. Your brother in law probably just got suckered and signed a contract that clearly disclosed the high interest rate.

It's a common misconception that credit unions can always beat the dealerships. Dealerships are often part of a large chain and have some real buying power with the banks. Because of course the dealerships are not carrying the loans, they're the middleman with the banks. The smaller lots will risk carrying their own loans, but the dealerships don't. 

I'm sure Pitt did just fine by taking the lower rates with the dealership's banks. I've seen it many times where the banks can beat the credit unions--they're just simply larger and sometimes more competitive on rates.

I should clarify my point on the financing portion.  I do agree that you can typically get better rates and quite frankly it's a lot easier to get dealer financing.  When I bought my last car I went to my bank and to a local credit union and the rates were OK, but it would have been a bit of a pain to finance through them with a lot of driving back and forth.

I took my "approved" bank financing with me to the dealer and after our negotiating on the vehicle they brought up financing to which I said sure, let me see what you have.  They came back with a better rate, and a lower payment so it was obviously a better deal and I just signed and drove.  So, it's not that I'm advocating not using dealer financing it's more that I'm advocating to make sure you know what's available to compare against the dealer financing.

The incident with my brother in law happened in the early 90's and I don't think the consumer protection laws were in place yet.  It was a typical sheister dealer outside a Navy base.  He bought a car that was worth $13k for $20k and they financed him at something like 30% on the loan.  He got rocked to put it mildly and I don't think those types of encounters really happen anymore.

2013-03-29 9:56 AM
in reply to: #4678837

Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

UrsusAdiposimus - 2013-03-29 1:42 AM I am actually in the same boat - looking to buy a new bike transportation apparatus sometime in May. I will be paying cash - going for the subcompact class, which has a lot of good, reliable cars that all meet my needs just fine, so it's just going to be a matter of where I can get the best deal. I have read differing opinions on when is the best time to disclose that you will be paying cash. Some say to wait until the last possible second since dealers make a good chunk of their profit off of upselling features and add-ons, and it's much easier to upsell to someone who is financing, since "$10 more a month for 60 months" sounds like a lot less than "$600." So the dealer will spend more time with you if they think you are financing. Others say it's best just to say you will be paying cash up front because then you won't have to waste time saying "no" 300 times to all of their pitches since they'll know you're a cheap SOB and a lost cause. In my case it will probably make the dealer's life a little easier too if I am up front about it because I become very....challenging.....when I have to say "no" more than once. I meant it the first time I said it, dude Although I imagine I will have to get over this if I ever have kids....

I don't know the best approach, but I have always gone with the assumption to let them assume I'm going to finance it through them no matter what and keep options open for warranties and addons.  This way I can get them to be aggressive on the price of the car.   Once the price of the car is set, then I'll come in and no out on all the upsells.  I have no clue if it makes a difference or not, but it sounds good. 

2013-03-29 10:02 AM
in reply to: #4679107

Champion
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Checkin' out the podium girls
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
tuwood - 2013-03-29 10:53 AM

zed707 - 2013-03-28 8:51 PM
tuwood - 2013-03-28 8:30 PM

pitt83 - 2013-03-28 8:02 PM I'm not understanding the finance issue. I have taken dealer financing the last 3 times. They have always beat my credit union rate which I knew ahead of time. So, how have I lost by taking their financing versus taking outside loans?

It depends on where you go and how educated you are on rates.  There are many ways a dealership can add fee's onto the contract or bump the rate up to make extra money.  My brother in law got rocked when he was younger by an unscrupulous dealer in the financing area.

While it's true that some dealerships can take advantage of people that are uneducated on vehicle financing, the financing contract must clearly indicate the interest rate. Your brother in law probably just got suckered and signed a contract that clearly disclosed the high interest rate.

It's a common misconception that credit unions can always beat the dealerships. Dealerships are often part of a large chain and have some real buying power with the banks. Because of course the dealerships are not carrying the loans, they're the middleman with the banks. The smaller lots will risk carrying their own loans, but the dealerships don't. 

I'm sure Pitt did just fine by taking the lower rates with the dealership's banks. I've seen it many times where the banks can beat the credit unions--they're just simply larger and sometimes more competitive on rates.

I should clarify my point on the financing portion.  I do agree that you can typically get better rates and quite frankly it's a lot easier to get dealer financing.  When I bought my last car I went to my bank and to a local credit union and the rates were OK, but it would have been a bit of a pain to finance through them with a lot of driving back and forth.

I took my "approved" bank financing with me to the dealer and after our negotiating on the vehicle they brought up financing to which I said sure, let me see what you have.  They came back with a better rate, and a lower payment so it was obviously a better deal and I just signed and drove.  So, it's not that I'm advocating not using dealer financing it's more that I'm advocating to make sure you know what's available to compare against the dealer financing.

The incident with my brother in law happened in the early 90's and I don't think the consumer protection laws were in place yet.  It was a typical sheister dealer outside a Navy base.  He bought a car that was worth $13k for $20k and they financed him at something like 30% on the loan.  He got rocked to put it mildly and I don't think those types of encounters really happen anymore.



I live in the Submarine Capitol of the world. Our dealers are terrible for this. One family owns 6 of the dealerships and you get the same attitude at the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Acura or Ford dealerships. It's brutal...

The guys get off the boat after being underwater for 6 months with their pay for all of that time and no expenses. Dealers are ravenous when they come home.

Edited by pitt83 2013-03-29 10:04 AM
2013-03-29 11:27 AM
in reply to: #4677650

Master
2435
200010010010010025
Close to Memphis
Silver member
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
Don't forget to negotiate the interest rate if you're financing. We went in with a number from USAA, Audi beat it, we called USAA and they went lower. Audi went lower and USAA went even lower. Don't be afraid to get up and make some calls or search the Internet if you need more info. It's your money, you choose when to spend it. We also recently dealt w three dealerships when buying my explorer. I had a specific request. All three dealers showed me the Same car. Same VIN number, so I just went with the best price. Research is the best ammo. I walked out of an Acura dealership years ago when they tried to charge me an extra $100 for locking nuts for the wheels.....stick to your budget.


2013-03-29 11:34 AM
in reply to: #4679107

Kansas
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
tuwood - 2013-03-29 9:53 AM
zed707 - 2013-03-28 8:51 PM
tuwood - 2013-03-28 8:30 PM

pitt83 - 2013-03-28 8:02 PM I'm not understanding the finance issue. I have taken dealer financing the last 3 times. They have always beat my credit union rate which I knew ahead of time. So, how have I lost by taking their financing versus taking outside loans?

It depends on where you go and how educated you are on rates.  There are many ways a dealership can add fee's onto the contract or bump the rate up to make extra money.  My brother in law got rocked when he was younger by an unscrupulous dealer in the financing area.

While it's true that some dealerships can take advantage of people that are uneducated on vehicle financing, the financing contract must clearly indicate the interest rate. Your brother in law probably just got suckered and signed a contract that clearly disclosed the high interest rate.

It's a common misconception that credit unions can always beat the dealerships. Dealerships are often part of a large chain and have some real buying power with the banks. Because of course the dealerships are not carrying the loans, they're the middleman with the banks. The smaller lots will risk carrying their own loans, but the dealerships don't. 

I'm sure Pitt did just fine by taking the lower rates with the dealership's banks. I've seen it many times where the banks can beat the credit unions--they're just simply larger and sometimes more competitive on rates.

I should clarify my point on the financing portion.  I do agree that you can typically get better rates and quite frankly it's a lot easier to get dealer financing.  When I bought my last car I went to my bank and to a local credit union and the rates were OK, but it would have been a bit of a pain to finance through them with a lot of driving back and forth.

I had a way different experience. 
I knew the dealer rate, my bank's rate and my credit union's rate. The credit union rate was something like 2.5 or 3% lower than the other two - even the dealership was like oh, we can't compete with that! It was so quick and painless to set it up - I did it over my lunch break at work. Just had to get the VIN # and the dealership's fax number and let them know my paperwork was on it's way.  

2013-03-29 2:08 PM
in reply to: #4677650

Expert
1255
10001001002525
Marin County, California
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
One thing not mentioned that worked really good for me when I bought my car a few years ago: Along with knowing how much you're going to pay, when they come back with offers that are higher than what you want, just say "Wow, since I have XXX credit score, I'm sure in this market there are plenty of dealers who would LOVE to make this happen for me."

I did this and it was funny how fast they gave me everything I wanted for what I was willing to pay.

I also got 0.9% interest which my bank couldn't touch.

Zanne

Edited by LittleCat 2013-03-29 2:10 PM
2013-03-29 7:55 PM
in reply to: #4677650

New user
61
2525
Green Bay, WI
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
I figure out exactly what I want, then research who has what I want online. Then I call every dealer that has it within 50-100 miles and negotiate over the phone. I tell them I don't care about anything but price. Give me your best shot now....or I won't even come look at it. Has worked well for me with some great buys. At the end of the day any dealer will service it so my suggestion is buy on price and then have service done by the dealer you like /trust.
2013-03-29 9:52 PM
in reply to: #4677684

Silver member
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
moondawg14 - 2013-03-28 9:21 AM
juniperjen - 2013-03-27 10:03 AM

So, we're looking at buying a new car with a baby on the way in the next two months. There seems to be some good deals out there as well as awesome financing.  Neither my husband or I have ever owned or bought a car before - we're pretty settled on a couple of models and I would love some tips on what we can negotiate and what we can't - and even how much negotiating room we have.  What can you teach me COJ?

 

1.  Set a budget, and stick to it.   DO NOT BUDGET ACCORDING TO YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT.  Figure out the total amount of money you're willing to spend.   Make sure you have financing available from a bank before you set foot on the lot.

2. Figure out the car you want, with the options you want, and see if it fits your budget.  Use edmunds.com to figure out EXACTLY how much that will cost.

3. Go to the lot and drive the car you're interested in.  Since you've got a baby on the way, figure out what stroller/car seat you're going to get, and get them.  Take them with you to make sure they'll fit in the car comfortably.  (allow me to recommend the Britax Marathon or similar seat.  We had 2 of them that survived our 3 kids, and we've since passed them on to friends and family and they are still serving after 8 years.)

4. Once you've decided the car fits your life, show the salesman a paper with the amount you're willing to pay.   Basically, if they say anything other than "OK, we can do that, let's go draw up the paperwork" ... it's time to walk.  You need to be confident.  If the salesman sees that you're standing your ground, they're likely to not mess around with trying to bargain you up a few bucks.

5.  You've got to be prepared to walk if you're not getting the price that fits your budget.  The financing or sales guy might try to shift the discussion to monthly payments in an attempt to divert your attention from "total cost"   This almost always entails financing the vehicle for a longer period of time.  Don't fall for it.

Good luck.   If you find a good dealer and a good salesman, it can be a really painless process.  If not, walk.  There's lots of places to buy a car.

Totally off topic from car buying but taking the car seat is a great idea. In my years as and early childhood educator one of the trainings I had to attend was a car seat safety. 3 days, 8 hours a day if you can believe that. We had to know how to install all different types of seats with all different types of cars and seat belts though. Nothing can make me cuss like installing a car seat into an older model vehicle that only has a lap belt Yell.

Anyway, here is a link with lots of car seat safety info:

http://www.safercar.gov/parents/RightFit.htm

I will second the Britex seats! Loved ours and easy to install nice and snug.

2013-03-29 11:54 PM
in reply to: #4677650


369
1001001002525
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

Here is a tip, don't expect a quick process.  If it ends up being quick, then that is a bonus (but it makes me wonder if I got the best deal).  They will try to wear you down.  I've never been at the dealership for less than 4 hours when buying a new car. 



2013-03-30 10:22 AM
in reply to: #4677650

Master
4006
20002000
Orlando
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?
Another tip, especially when negotiating with the dealerships' Internet sales dept is to make sure that the quoted price is the out the door price, eg, tax, tag etc is included.
2013-03-30 5:35 PM
in reply to: #4677650

Master
2535
200050025
Albuquerque
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

If you are looking for a Chrysler product, go to TreadLightly.org and become a member at $100 or greater. You'll get a Chrysler Affiliate code that gets you invoice minus 1% and no market adjustment BS that they have out here.

I just bought a 2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and saved over $6k off of what they go for locally. 

2013-04-03 11:01 AM
in reply to: #4677650

Master
3117
20001000100
Toronto
Silver member
Subject: RE: Buying a car - negotiations?

Thanks for everything!

We ended up buying a car this past weekend and inadvertently played two dealers off one another (which did follow your advice).  I didn't actually participate in the car purchase but we are both satisfied with the deal with go and all this info will be locked all away for future reference!

We are picking up our new Mazda 5 tomorrow.

(I loved the article about the guy who went under cover as a car salesman - very interesting!)

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