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2013-12-15 4:01 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: RE: Weekly Totals
gained half a pound. five w/o points...I think thats a ZERO for me on points this week.

Was watching the kids at the pool the other day. A bunch of newbies. High elbows, good cadence and rotation from what I could tell. Same coach as one that sent kids to the Olympics. EXCEPT....the forward momentum was NOT there for these young (high school age swimmers). I know they have not been swimming very long..but I cant figure out how something can look so correct but be missing key factors ! Scott ...??? please explain. Oh they swim three times a week for an hour I think.


2013-12-16 8:37 AM
in reply to: dustytrails

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Subject: RE: Weekly Totals
Hi James,

Another par week for me. No change in weight (+5) - dang, I thought I'd be down 1 this week - and 180 minutes of training (+6) for a total of +11. Been lax on the workouts recently, especially the runs, which is what I can least afford to lose. Ah well, hope springs eternal on Monday... plus, our daughter arrives today!

Stu
2013-12-16 8:46 AM
in reply to: juneapple

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Subject: RE: Weekly Totals
Hey James--

Wrong direction for me. That trip to New York did me in. Plus I'm starting to hit the gym again for focused strength training. I know from past experience that I'll gain water weight from these workouts. Hoping for a solid workouts over the next three weeks.

Net: Plus 1.5 on weight. 275 minutes of workout.

Steve
2013-12-16 1:08 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: Important 2014 Update
Hey Gang:

Sometime in the next couple of weeks (I think) Beginner Triathlete will again open the mentor program up. I hope to keep our forum rolling into the new year while adding some additional members to the conversation.

I'm not sure if BT will just allow me to open up our current group (currently closed to new members) or if I'll have to start over completely. Either way, I'll let you know. We've got a great core group with a lot of valuable experience that I think would be very beneficial to new triathletes trying to get better in the sport. And I've enjoyed to get to know each of you a little during the past year while sharing in your journeys.

So, hopefully you'll stay with me going into 2014 and we can continue to swap insights, goals and personal achievements as we advance our skills.

Best regards,

Steve
2013-12-16 8:47 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Weekly Totals

Originally posted by dustytrails

Was watching the kids at the pool the other day. A bunch of newbies. High elbows, good cadence and rotation from what I could tell. Same coach as one that sent kids to the Olympics. EXCEPT....the forward momentum was NOT there for these young (high school age swimmers). I know they have not been swimming very long..but I cant figure out how something can look so correct but be missing key factors ! Scott ...??? please explain. Oh they swim three times a week for an hour I think.

Obviously without seeing them swim I am speculating but I presume there are a number of things going on.

First, I imagine their stroke technique, while it may look nice above the surface, has some major flaws.  What we can't see is what's happening underwater.  The entry may look wonderful, but what does their catch look like?  If the first movement underwater is down or to the side, the stroke will be very inefficient.  You didn't mention where there entry or recovery was taking place.  Were they entering at near full extension and beginning the recovery at full extension?  Again, if they were not - and we are only talking about a couple inches here - their stroke would be very inefficient.  Obviously we don't know what there hand/arm position is underwater.  Combine poor catch with short entry, short recovery, and poor underwater positioning and you will have someone that may look like they are swimming well but will barely be moving through the water.

Next, you didn't mention anything about their kick.  I am one that does not advocate a strong kick as even the best swimmers get very little actual propulsion from their kick efforts (in freestyle).  That said however, a good kick is crucial to proper balance in the water and it supports proper technique.  In that sense, a good kick is critical to good stroke technique.  A poor kick on the other hand, can actually cause negative propulsion, can adversely effect stroke timing and have an overall detrimental impact on stroke technique.  End result being a slow, inefficient swimmer.

You indicated they were newbies and certainly swimming for an hour three times a week supports that observation.  Newbies don't have very much swim fitness and while they may be outstanding athletes outside of the pool, without a good swimming aerobic base, they will be slow.  Also, if they have little or no swim fitness, they are going to have little or no swim endurance.  As they fatigue, their stroke technique is going to break down and they will become even more inefficient - they will be slow and getting slower.

As newbies, they would not have developed a 'feel for the water.'  Having a feel for the water is difficult to define but unmistakable when a swimmer has it.  I suppose the best way to try and describe it is that swimming becomes second nature.  You don't have to think about it.  How about this, you become a fish.  I could spend an hour trying to describe 'feel for the water,' and probably be no closer to a definition then I am now.  I think the vast majority of triathletes, maybe 70% or more, don't have a true 'feel fo the water' so it is safe to say that the kids you saw didn't have it.

Finally, it takes hundreds of thousands of yards to truly get fast.  Pretty safe to assume the newbies you were observing have not put in anywhere near the requisite yardage to get fast.

Not sure if that answers your question or not.  Next time you get to see the kids swim, shoot some video on your phone, then I might be able to offer some better thoughts.

 



Edited by k9car363 2013-12-16 9:10 PM
2013-12-16 8:52 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Important 2014 Update

Originally posted by lutzman

I'm not sure if BT will just allow me to open up our current group (currently closed to new members) or if I'll have to start over completely. Either way, I'll let you know.

I know last year, they just rolled everything into archives and started all new groups.  Would be nice if they just let this one continue on uninteruppted.  Regardless, count me in, I have thoroughly enjoyed this mentor group and look forward to "next semester."



2013-12-16 10:23 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Important 2014 Update
Up 2 pounds and only 120 workout minutes - Not a good week - Hey look at the time 11:20 PM, wasn't I supposed to stop this late night working stuff.

After a crappy week of working out I was about to mail it in till the 1st of the year but with our fearless leader stating he is lookimg to kill it the next 3 weeks, his vigor has given me incentive to carry on.

I'll get the numbers up tomorrow guys.

BTW you can count on me for next year Steve, you and everyone else in the group have been absolutely great.

Meeting you guys this year is just another thing I am grateful for this Holiday season.

Thanks everyone!

James

Edited by JREDFLY 2013-12-16 10:24 PM
2013-12-17 11:59 AM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: need stuff for cycling?
Nashbar has free shipping and will waive over size or overweight charges today and tomorrow according to my live chat with customer service.
I am getting a new saris solo bike rack. Been unable to transport my bike for about a month. oh...the carrier was half price at thirty bucks.
2013-12-18 6:31 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Important 2014 Update

Originally posted by lutzman

I'm not sure if BT will just allow me to open up our current group (currently closed to new members) or if I'll have to start over completely.

Guess that question got answered since ALL the mentor group threads got moved to the archives!

2013-12-19 9:40 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: we finish our contest here ?
Scott u should writ a book on swimming. thx for ur answer...so comprehensive.
I dont think I can video the kids swimming. privacy issue. would need permission. etc.
I have been getting w/o's subbing athletics at the local public schools. too bad it doesnt count toward our contest !
2013-12-19 11:17 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Important 2014 Update
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by lutzman

I'm not sure if BT will just allow me to open up our current group (currently closed to new members) or if I'll have to start over completely.

Guess that question got answered since ALL the mentor group threads got moved to the archives!




Hey Scott--I submitted an application to run a new mentor group under the same name. So, hopefully that will be approved and we can get everyone over to the new site.

Steve


2013-12-21 8:09 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: New Gray Guy/Girls 2014 Forum
Hi Gang:

We're transitioning over to the new forum. It's now live, so you can sign up and be added to the list. H

Hope you'll join the new group!

Merry Christmas and Happy Training!

Steve
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