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2013-10-15 9:50 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Tom, if it was me I would lean toward following a similar plan that worked for you previously. I guess that would mean that using the Vineman...however I do like reading through the BT plans and I would probably plan to follow one and then refer to the other ones for ideas.

Speaking of which, would you mind sharing that 70.3 plan? I too, am preparing my training program. Right now, I'm kind of in "vacation" mode. I am training for a half marathon to run with my wife around Thanksgiving and following a run plan that Jesse mapped out for me. My intention was to run 4 days a week and then bike 2 during this period. I'm afraid to say that my "bike 2 days" plan has fallen by the wayside. I've been slacking a bit on the bike but right now I'm focused on my run and that is going well.

Immeditely after my half marathon (something I've never done) it will be time for me to jump into a 20 week plan for HIM. I'm targeting a 70.3 in April which means the training plan needs to start in mid-late November no matter what. I've been evaluating the plans provided by BT but have not settled on one.

Tom, If you get a plan from outside of BT, I've now figured out how to format it to be able to import into the BT training log.

Finally, I'm afraid I may need to put my grand bike plans on hold. I've had a bit of a household emergency involving a flood and suddenly I'm in the middle of an entire bathroom remodel and dealing with contractors. My bike purchase seems like something I may have to hold on ... just uncertain right now.

I'm not excited to hear about what you said about getting back into the pool. I haven't swam since mid September and doubt I will until late November.


2013-10-16 7:09 AM
in reply to: dprocket

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by dprocket


Finally, I'm afraid I may need to put my grand bike plans on hold. I've had a bit of a household emergency involving a flood and suddenly I'm in the middle of an entire bathroom remodel and dealing with contractors. My bike purchase seems like something I may have to hold on ... just uncertain right now.



Sorry to hear that! Maybe Santa Claus will be good to you this year? That's what I'm holding out for for myself.

Oh, I meant to post this too- remember a week or two ago we were all talking about bilateral breathing and I was
saying how hard it was for me and I'd temporarily given up on it? Anyhow, I had a breakthrough last week in the pool. I
am taking a weekly group swim clinic with a tri-coach and she was calling me out from the deck for being the only
one not bilateral breathing (in good humor) so
I just said "Fine" and went back to it- anyhow, we were doing different drills for an hour or so and I was focusing on whatever
drill we were on, and at the end of practice I realized I had been bilateral breathing the whole class and hadn't even noticed
I was doing it. Felt natural! I went back to the pool 2 days later and did a 2500 yd workout and did the same thing
and it was easy as could be. I guess all the work I put into it this summer paid off and it became part of
my "muscle memory" or something at some point without my even knowing it. Had the coach not got on me, I wouldn't have
even known, because I was convinced it was going to take a lot more work to master.

John
2013-10-16 1:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

Originally posted by dprocket Tom, if it was me I would lean toward following a similar plan that worked for you previously. I guess that would mean that using the Vineman...however I do like reading through the BT plans and I would probably plan to follow one and then refer to the other ones for ideas. Speaking of which, would you mind sharing that 70.3 plan?
The only thing I struggle with the Vineman plan is that 12 weeks seems incredibly short, but I will be doing a base/build prior to the actual implementation of the IM plan.  I'll try to attach the Excel spreadsheet I made to condense the size of the plan documents down and make it something I could put on my iphone and access from there easily. (Edit: Hey, looks like it worked!)  If you want more detail, I can email you the actual plan sheets - just let me know.  I would really like to get your method of importing an outside plan into BT, that would be really useful - please share!

I find it hard to find the time/focus/desire/whatever to train in a discipline I won't be using in my next event, so completely understand your struggle to get in your 2 bike days.  You might want to try a pattern where you jump on the bike right after your runs and do an easy 15-30 minute spin as your cool-down.  That'll serve both the purpose of letting the body slowly come down from the run exertion and will help keep the bike muscle memory in place.  Spend some time in aero if that's how you race to keep the back stretched out too.  Think of it not as bike training, but as a part of your HM training plan to stay healthy.  It's a bummer you have to put the bike plans on hold, but life does get in the way sometimes.  Fear not on the pricing, however, there will be dealers stuck with last year's models even into spring and summer (heck, I JUST got a 2012 version!), so you should be penalized financially for waiting.



Edited by TTom 2013-10-16 1:43 PM




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Vineman 70.3 Training Schedule.xlsx (20KB - 12 downloads)
2013-10-16 1:50 PM
in reply to: johnmoran

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

John, great to hear the bilateral breathing has become a part of your arsenal!  I've decided to get back some swim fitness before I try to get the weak side breathing going.  I'm of two minds on it.  On one hand, if I get some fitness back I'll have more aerobic swim capacity and it won't be as drastic in terms of oxygen deprivation.  On the other hand, if I just do it from the beginning, it'll be something I HAVE to do, but I'm afraid it'll be such an effort I'll find excuses not to do it (like I already have).  Swimming is getting better.  Today I did 4x400 intervals at a pace of about 1:50/100.  The pace is a bit slower than what I was doing during the HIM training, but that comes as no surprise.  And I was able to do the whole workout without having to resort to paddles to baby the healing finger - so I view that as a good sign.

2013-10-16 2:05 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Tom, that's a great to take a little extra time at the end of my runs to bike a little.

Part of my problem (among many) is that I tend to get into an "all or nothing" mode. Since I bike mainly on the trainer, I feel like when I bike it is either the Sufferfest or nothing. I have a hard time getting motivated to just relax on the bike. On the flip side, dragging myself out of bed on my current "off" day (especially on a morning that included dealing with a screaming 2 year old at 2am) to do a Sufferfest just for fitness is tough too. I think that's why I've been slacking.

Now...doing a little spin after my run could work...provided I get up early enough. I have a bad habit of allowing myself *exactly* *only* enough time to get my planned workout in. So, for instance tomorrow my plan calls for a 10 mile run that I'll pace at about 9:30 p/m or so. I just *know* that I'll be just getting out the door with zero minute to spare in order to be home and ready for work. So, I'll have to make sure I plan a 20 minute cool down or so. (ha).

Regarding the plan, I'll take whatever you have. I don't know how skilled you are with spreadsheets but basically it's a matter of extracting the data into a CSV format in the format that BT will accept. I've done this a few times and there are pitfalls to doing it, so if you're not good with spreadsheets send me what you have and I'll do it for you.
2013-10-16 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Tom,

It sounds like you have a pretty good idea about what you're wanting to do training wise. Did you have a specific question for me regarding the setup of your plan? Historically my "off" season is always a building time phase, but as a lifestyle sport (that's what I'll call it) instead of a super competitive sport the maintenance phase makes sense for a good chunk of time before you begin back into higher intensity workouts. I can't comment too much on the plan outside from general thoughts since I'd have to see actually distance/intensity progressions.

Regarding kicking in the pool triathlon actually does use kicking. The tempo of the 1500 or lower is going to be a sprint out for the first 2-400 meters which you need. Additionally those legs come into play when you need to make a surge on someone or around a buoy to get away so the off-season is used with legs on the swim because you aren't beating up the legs on the bike and run at the same time.

Also I strongly recommend not skipping drills. Look up drill videos to make sure you're doing them properly, but identifying your weak swim points regarding form be it bilateral breathing, high elbow recovery, high elbow pull, sagging legs, etc. and then working with the appropriate drill over time will increase your speed without a fitness gain. Swimming is very technique focused.

John great job on the bilateral breathing. True that during a race there's often not going to be a lot of bilateral breathing because of the intensity of the swim, however it serves a couple purposes. First, bilateral breathing helps keep you from being lopsided in terms of muscular development. I actually will change direction at the half way point every lap. So push off the wall breathing to the left then switch breathing to the right for the second half after 12.5 meters. Breathing to the right is my weak side so I spent some time getting that side worked on and my right side recovery also isn't great so its important to work on both sides for evenness. The second part is that you never know which side some guy is going to be on during a race. If you only breathe to your dominant side and there's a guy knocking water in your way every time you try to get a breath your options are to slow down and get out of the way, veer off course or switch to your weak side which will slow you down because of the weakness.

David no worries on dropping the bike sections. If you're keeping up with the 4 day run you're pretty much on track for your half. I actually had intended you only bike 1 day a week with that schedule not two. Additionally intensity needn't be high since I think we had discussed your goal being finishing the half comfortably, not yet being able to race it strongly? Sorry to hear about the flooding. I've had a lot of life's surprises keep coming up for me lately as well although nothing quite as big as a remodel so I understand to some degree the headache going on.



Edited by funkj25 2013-10-16 2:44 PM


2013-10-16 4:05 PM
in reply to: funkj25

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
What is everyone's opinion of strength training and its neccessity as part of a training plan?

Prior to starting triathlon, I did a lot of strength training stuff (P90x, cross fit, etc). I'm not opposed to it at all, and do enjoy it. However, as I look over my options for 70.3 training plans, each of them has a strength training component of between 1 and 3.5 hours per week. I know this may sound like I'm a weenie, but I can tell you right now that I'm very time pressed and I can see these sessions as being the 1st to go. 3.5 hours may not sound like a lot for some people, but for me it would be very tough to squeeze it in. AS a rule, Mon-Sat if all of my training sessions are not 100% finished by 7am, it does not happen. In my mind, I recognize that strength training has value (especially tubing type workouts specifically for swim) however if given a final option, I tend to think more S/B/R is best.

Thoughts?

(sorry if this is a bit of a rant...it's kind of frustrating looking at different training plans, and having certain objectives that I know ahead of time are going to be nearly impossible to complete as Rx'd).
2013-10-16 7:35 PM
in reply to: dprocket

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
I strength train but it is mainly just because I enjoy it, not sure how much if any it really helps me on race day. If I had to choose I would have to go SBR over any strength work.

John, good job on the breathing. I have to second what Jesse said. In a race I typically just breath to the right but it is good to be able to switch it up if for instance someone is right up on you on your strong side or you have waves coming in on your strong side in an ocean swim for instance.
2013-10-16 10:08 PM
in reply to: dprocket

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by dprocket

What is everyone's opinion of strength training and its neccessity as part of a training plan?

Prior to starting triathlon, I did a lot of strength training stuff (P90x, cross fit, etc). I'm not opposed to it at all, and do enjoy it. However, as I look over my options for 70.3 training plans, each of them has a strength training component of between 1 and 3.5 hours per week. I know this may sound like I'm a weenie, but I can tell you right now that I'm very time pressed and I can see these sessions as being the 1st to go. 3.5 hours may not sound like a lot for some people, but for me it would be very tough to squeeze it in. AS a rule, Mon-Sat if all of my training sessions are not 100% finished by 7am, it does not happen. In my mind, I recognize that strength training has value (especially tubing type workouts specifically for swim) however if given a final option, I tend to think more S/B/R is best.

Thoughts?

(sorry if this is a bit of a rant...it's kind of frustrating looking at different training plans, and having certain objectives that I know ahead of time are going to be nearly impossible to complete as Rx'd).



Go over to slowtwitch and read what people have to say about strength training in regards to triathlon training. I have and I've read the supporting studies too. I've dumped all my strength training except for some core work that I can do any time. I used to lift a lot and was following a 3 day/week plan for much of the summer. I'm 100% convinced it didn't do anything for me (triathlon performance wise) except impede on time I should have spent working on improving my bike. 3.5 hours/week is a HUGE commitment. If something has to go in your schedule, that should be what goes!

For myself, my strength training now consists of chinups and pushups when I feel like it and nothing else.
2013-10-16 11:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

Originally posted by funkj25 Tom, It sounds like you have a pretty good idea about what you're wanting to do training wise. Did you have a specific question for me regarding the setup of your plan? Historically my "off" season is always a building time phase, but as a lifestyle sport (that's what I'll call it) instead of a super competitive sport the maintenance phase makes sense for a good chunk of time before you begin back into higher intensity workouts. I can't comment too much on the plan outside from general thoughts since I'd have to see actually distance/intensity progressions. Regarding kicking in the pool triathlon actually does use kicking. The tempo of the 1500 or lower is going to be a sprint out for the first 2-400 meters which you need. Additionally those legs come into play when you need to make a surge on someone or around a buoy to get away so the off-season is used with legs on the swim because you aren't beating up the legs on the bike and run at the same time. Also I strongly recommend not skipping drills. Look up drill videos to make sure you're doing them properly, but identifying your weak swim points regarding form be it bilateral breathing, high elbow recovery, high elbow pull, sagging legs, etc. and then working with the appropriate drill over time will increase your speed without a fitness gain. Swimming is very technique focused.
Jesse, I don't really have a specific question, just looking for a sanity check.  I posted links to the plans I was going to focus on if you want more detail (The BT ones).  I guess in the winter maintenance I'm looking to maintain a good base of swim and run and try to improve on the bike as I think that's where I can make the biggest time gain on the course AND because I know that if I push the running too hard I could get into injuries, so will save the higher intensities/distances there until the actual IM training plan. 

On drills I worry that because I don't know what I'm doing, and I can't actually see what I'm doing, that I'll be doing things wrong and ingrain bad habits.  That being said, even those less than perfect habits would likely be an improvement on what I'm doing by not doing them.  Hmmmm.  I'm going to give that more thought.  Another issue in this area is that I think I don't really know how to feel I'm making progress.  When I swim an interval of a certain length, I can compare it to previous intervals in terms of SPL, time, etc.  If I do a high elbow recovery set of drills, the improvement comes further down the line and likely gradually as the drills are repeated.  This is an issue with how I view things I guess, and I've got to figure out how to deal with it.  I did see a post where you recommend the teeter totter drill, can you give more detail on that?

On the plus side had a productive day today with a swim, run, two dog walks, smoked a batch of almonds, made up a batch of Peanut Butter Beast recovery bars and dehydrated 20 lbs. of apples!



Edited by TTom 2013-10-16 11:40 PM
2013-10-17 8:36 AM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
The teeter totter drill is with hands at the side and you "push the T" as barb says. The T is the shape created when you draw a line across your shoulders and down your spine so you're pushing your chest into the water. Be careful not to stick or stretch your head downward since that's not what we want. The point of the drill is to elevate your legs so you're closer to flat in the water and creating less drag.

I was looking for a video of this drill and came across an online version of the book "100 more swimming drills."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/174707674/84/TEETER-TOTTER

That should give us all plenty of drills to do and at least the initial illustrations aren't too bad. My suggestion on trying drills you haven't seen in person or don't have someone watching you with is to do more research on finding what they look like. The book will give you some drawings to give you an idea, but video is always nice of course. The book is available for purchase at various retailers if you want a hard copy.

Different coaches call drills different things so sometimes it can be hard to find a video.

In this video below Coach Robb does a better job explaining body balance than I can and its of course a video so check it out. He's got a whole series of stuff explaining various swim drills, techniques etc. As a side note I don't like his head position when he breathes towards the camera since both of his eyes are out of the water and top of his head points up. As he mentions your hips will sink when you breathe, but I think that will actually exacerbate the issue but he probably addresses keeping one eye in one eye out in the following video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqeOdpBFATc


I'll take a look again at the previous post on your schedule. When I clicked the links previously I didn't recall seeing any actual workout sets written so I may have just scrolled too quickly.


2013-10-18 12:12 PM
in reply to: funkj25

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

I've struggled with balance, especially when I tire, so thanks for your advice and that link to Coach Robb.  I like his approach of stopping mid-lap when you feel your feet/hips sinking and do the pencil drill to get that lovin' feeling back.  I may get a chance to focus on this a bit more over the next week or so as I've managed to strain my left hammie.  Don't think it is too bad, but since it's off-season, I'm going to try and convince myself that it is OK to take extra rest time from the bike and run and let it heal.  It's a bit of a bummer though as I was feeling that I was making good progress in both areas. Yesterday was a 41 mile ride at an HR average of z2.1, only touching 3.0 for one brief second, and at an average speed of 20mph which is the best I've done on this particular training ride.   I'm not quite sure what brought it on as I've not been pushing it too hard on the workouts or stretching out the distances unreasonably.  Oh well, it is what it is and a wakeup call that I need to back off a bit.  Perhaps my 20-week winter plan will become a 19-week plan . . .

2013-10-19 1:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
I had an interesting opportunity today. I had the chance to run on a $150k treadmill. Yes, you read that right. It's part of a study being done at Georgia Southern University on minimalist shoes. Basically they put you on a 8min/ mile pace and tell you to run to exhaustion. The point is to see how your force, stride, posture, joints, etc. change as fatigue sets in. Today was basically collecting baseline data using my normal neutral running shoe. I will probably be called back at a later date to run in a more minimal shoe. The sensors on the treadmill pads measure the force of your step and all the cameras capture the joint movements and posture, etc. It was a lot of fun. I figure this is right up Jesse's alley.



Edited by Dominion 2013-10-19 1:31 PM
2013-10-19 1:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN




(DSCN0638.JPG)



(DSCN0647.JPG)



(DSCN0628.JPG)



(DSCN0630.JPG)



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DSCN0638.JPG (273KB - 20 downloads)
DSCN0647.JPG (249KB - 15 downloads)
DSCN0628.JPG (288KB - 16 downloads)
DSCN0630.JPG (280KB - 17 downloads)
2013-10-20 8:09 AM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by Dominion

I had an interesting opportunity today. I had the chance to run on a $150k treadmill. Yes, you read that right. It's part of a study being done at Georgia Southern University on minimalist shoes. Basically they put you on a 8min/ mile pace and tell you to run to exhaustion. The point is to see how your force, stride, posture, joints, etc. change as fatigue sets in. Today was basically collecting baseline data using my normal neutral running shoe. I will probably be called back at a later date to run in a more minimal shoe. The sensors on the treadmill pads measure the force of your step and all the cameras capture the joint movements and posture, etc. It was a lot of fun. I figure this is right up Jesse's alley.




That's pretty cool! how did you get selected for that???
2013-10-20 3:04 PM
in reply to: johnmoran

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Just luck. The mom of a guy I work with works in that department at the university. He runs a little and told me they need runners as test subjects, so how could I resist. Had a chance to talk briefly with the PHD who is doing the study. He has been involved with running shoes for 30 years he says and has been a consultant for NIKE, Saucony, and New Balance. Pretty cool stuff just listening to him talk about biomechanics and how the body copes with the shock and force placed on it from running, and some of the science behind how shoes help with that.


2013-10-21 9:22 AM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by Dominion

Just luck. The mom of a guy I work with works in that department at the university. He runs a little and told me they need runners as test subjects, so how could I resist. Had a chance to talk briefly with the PHD who is doing the study. He has been involved with running shoes for 30 years he says and has been a consultant for NIKE, Saucony, and New Balance. Pretty cool stuff just listening to him talk about biomechanics and how the body copes with the shock and force placed on it from running, and some of the science behind how shoes help with that.


Pretty cool opportunity. I'm interested to hear more about the study and any tidbits you learn.

My running plan has been going well and I've been steadily increasing mileage. Every once in a while I've had a mile split that was faster than I thought I could do. However I hit a snag on Saturday. I was doing 6 miles and at mile 2 mile Achilles started to hurt. I pushed through. The rest of the day I was really sore and have been sore since. I've got a lump on the tendon that is very sore. I'm pretty sure it's a case of Achilles tendinitis. I had this a little over a year ago when I was trying to go from zero to an 8 mile run for my first triathlon. From what I know, resting it is really the only way to get over it. I plan to take a few days off and maybe skip my long run this week and try to get my medium/short runs in at the end of the week.
2013-10-21 1:20 PM
in reply to: dprocket

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

Originally posted by dprocket
Originally posted by Dominion Just luck. The mom of a guy I work with works in that department at the university. He runs a little and told me they need runners as test subjects, so how could I resist. Had a chance to talk briefly with the PHD who is doing the study. He has been involved with running shoes for 30 years he says and has been a consultant for NIKE, Saucony, and New Balance. Pretty cool stuff just listening to him talk about biomechanics and how the body copes with the shock and force placed on it from running, and some of the science behind how shoes help with that.
Pretty cool opportunity. I'm interested to hear more about the study and any tidbits you learn. My running plan has been going well and I've been steadily increasing mileage. Every once in a while I've had a mile split that was faster than I thought I could do. However I hit a snag on Saturday. I was doing 6 miles and at mile 2 mile Achilles started to hurt. I pushed through. The rest of the day I was really sore and have been sore since. I've got a lump on the tendon that is very sore. I'm pretty sure it's a case of Achilles tendinitis. I had this a little over a year ago when I was trying to go from zero to an 8 mile run for my first triathlon. From what I know, resting it is really the only way to get over it. I plan to take a few days off and maybe skip my long run this week and try to get my medium/short runs in at the end of the week.
Sorry to hear about the AT.  Don't forget that ice will help too.  20 min on/20 min off for 3 cycles while you are watching TV or some such.  But as you say, rest is the key.  One other thing I've used (requires a prescription) is a gel called Voltaren which is like an Ibuprofen gel you slather over the inflamed spot.  It penetrates the skin there and the theory is that it gets more of the good med to the affected area and less to the general body.  A similar thing which does not require a prescription is called Traumeel and it got very good reviews on a running forum I used to participate in.  For me, I also found it important to keep it loose during the heeling process and did eccentric heel drop on a stairway (good description here http://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/achilles-tendonitis-and-insertional-achilles-tendinopathy-in-runners/). 

Injuries are a part of the game it seems, both traumatic and overuse.  In the past I've struggled mostly with the overuse, like you pushing through and sometimes getting away with it, sometimes not.  This year it has been a long list of non-overuse (broken toe, brain tumor, dislocated/broken finger, bruised heel, shingles) and only my current hamstring strain falling into the overuse category.  I find it interesting how much a part of my life, and me, my training has become - and the way it effects me when I have to back off.  Staying off the bike and off the running trail is hard to do, kind of like during a taper when you feel the energy bubbling up with no outlet.  Knowing it is the RIGHT thing to do doesn't seem to make it any easier.  Anybody have any tricks for dealing with this?

2013-10-21 1:22 PM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN

Originally posted by Dominion Just luck. The mom of a guy I work with works in that department at the university. He runs a little and told me they need runners as test subjects, so how could I resist. Had a chance to talk briefly with the PHD who is doing the study. He has been involved with running shoes for 30 years he says and has been a consultant for NIKE, Saucony, and New Balance. Pretty cool stuff just listening to him talk about biomechanics and how the body copes with the shock and force placed on it from running, and some of the science behind how shoes help with that.
That is really cool.  Did you learn anything about your running or yourself as you had to run to exhaustion?

2013-10-21 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Well, I'm not sure I actually ran to exhaustion. :o
I guess the definition of exhaustion can vary. So did I run till I fell down or just couldn't go another step? No. I have been fairly inactive as October has been a bit of a break for me, so I was a little off my game but ran until I could tell my stride was shortening, my posture was suffering and I was starting to have a little more side to side movement than normal. All in all I put in around 5 miles and shut it down. The hardest part was there was no clock and no odometer. I couldn't even wear a stopwatch because anything reflective would be picked up by the cameras. So it was mentally challenging to have someone tell you to run till exhaustion and you have no idea how far or how long you have been running. May not seem like anything, but I found that lack of information disconcerting. They did the time and all that on the computers but I couldn't see any of it from the treadmill. It must have been a good workout though because I have been sore the last 2 days.

Basically I get the notion that the professor is not a big fan of the minimalist movement in shoes. He was talking scientific stuff about Newton's 3rd law (force exerted by one object on another, the 2nd object exerts an equal force back) ie. the force of your step against the ground is exerted back from the ground through the body. The human body is designed to protect the brain at all costs, therefore the body (joints)are designed to take that force and disperse it before it reaches the brain. Most of this occurs in the knees, but if you have an injured knee for example you may overcompensate or change your stride and then then some or most of this force can bypass the knee and go to the hips or lower back and can then cause problems there. I know my version is over simplified but it was all heady stuff the way he was talking about it. I guess he knows what he is talking about.?!? :) He also said what many may already know in that the more expensive shoes cost so much because they usually have a lot more research behind them.

Edited by Dominion 2013-10-21 2:16 PM
2013-10-23 9:28 AM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Need some advice for dealing with this injury.

I took Monday and Tuesday off from running and biked instead. I took this morning off completely. I had considered doing a shorter run (~4-5 miles) today to test it but opted not to just yet.

Here's my dilemma: this Saturday I'm supposed to do one of those stupid mud run obstacle course things. I signed up for this with my wife (she couldn't find anyone to do it with her) way back in April thinking it would be post-tri season so no big deal. As it turns out, we now have a group of about 15 people we're doing this with.

I do not care about the mud run at all: my main objective is to not get hurt. However, I do want to do it as I don't want to "wimp out" and also my wife has been looking forward to doing this with me. I'm hesitant to go out and run Thursday or Friday and potentially aggravate it and find out I can't run at all on Saturday (mud run is only about 3.5 miles). If I take the additional days off, I'm pretty sure I'd be good to go on Saturday, but that will mean I've lost 3 runs in a row on my HM training. Probably not the end of the world, but not ideal either.

Thoughts?


2013-10-23 9:32 AM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
I just have one question.

Will they fly me out so I can run until exhaustion at 8 min/mile pace? Just curious how long that would be honestly, ha. Is there an upper bound limit on the time they'll allow you on the treadmill? I feel like if they took some of the university's runners and put them on the treadmill it could take a few hours for them to reach exhaustion at that pace.

Also I understand wanting to have a control in terms of getting good research, but I'd be happier with the control being based on V02 Max and adjusted easy/long pace running for each particular runner. Yes it adds some variables, but the way a runner strides who is faster or slower than 8 min/mile typically is going to change because of that pace so I feel like the data is somewhat invalid unless you get people who almost always run that pace.

2013-10-23 9:38 AM
in reply to: dprocket

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
David,

My first thought is to try putting some small lifts in your shoes (both, not just the injured one). It could be the tendinitis like you had mentioned or could be a strain of that Achilles. I figure it's worth finding out if the lift helps alleviate some of the pain. If it does then it quite possibly is the strain which will take some time to heal and then you'll have to spend time lengthening the tendon again, but you don't miss out on runs. If you have time and want to venture in that Avenue go see my friend Walter at New Balance in OP. He had a similar issue a while back and used this method so he'll know exactly what to do for you and what I'm talking about if you tell him I sent you in. He's there in the evenings every day besides Monday and Thursday.

Otherwise it's just a gut call on your part if you think rest is the only solution. Personally I'd just decide which is more important to me in the long run and go from there.
2013-10-23 11:15 AM
in reply to: funkj25

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by funkj25

I just have one question.

Will they fly me out so I can run until exhaustion at 8 min/mile pace? Just curious how long that would be honestly, ha. Is there an upper bound limit on the time they'll allow you on the treadmill? I feel like if they took some of the university's runners and put them on the treadmill it could take a few hours for them to reach exhaustion at that pace.

Also I understand wanting to have a control in terms of getting good research, but I'd be happier with the control being based on V02 Max and adjusted easy/long pace running for each particular runner. Yes it adds some variables, but the way a runner strides who is faster or slower than 8 min/mile typically is going to change because of that pace so I feel like the data is somewhat invalid unless you get people who almost always run that pace.




Those are good points. He said something about only wanting people who run between 10 and 15 miles a week, so that would rule out any of the collegiate runners here. So he is looking for people who run but not who run a lot. Not sure why.
2013-10-23 3:43 PM
in reply to: Dominion

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Subject: RE: Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - OPEN
Originally posted by Dominion

Originally posted by funkj25

I just have one question.

Will they fly me out so I can run until exhaustion at 8 min/mile pace? Just curious how long that would be honestly, ha. Is there an upper bound limit on the time they'll allow you on the treadmill? I feel like if they took some of the university's runners and put them on the treadmill it could take a few hours for them to reach exhaustion at that pace.

Also I understand wanting to have a control in terms of getting good research, but I'd be happier with the control being based on V02 Max and adjusted easy/long pace running for each particular runner. Yes it adds some variables, but the way a runner strides who is faster or slower than 8 min/mile typically is going to change because of that pace so I feel like the data is somewhat invalid unless you get people who almost always run that pace.




Those are good points. He said something about only wanting people who run between 10 and 15 miles a week, so that would rule out any of the collegiate runners here. So he is looking for people who run but not who run a lot. Not sure why.


Well at least its good to know he's keeping his test participants somewhat consistent with a little forethought. My half-educated guess would be he's trying to eliminate bias from people who have worked up a high level of resistance to fatigue through higher mileage. The higher mileage in turn ingrains the style of running a participant would have versus someone with lower mileage being affected more easily through fatigue. Just a shot in the dark though.
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