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Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds (Page 5)
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 2013-06-11 9:07 AM in reply to: gr33n |
Pro  15655    |  Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to fedsOriginally posted by gr33n Here's the thing- If this is so not quite the big deal and terrorism suspects only, why all the secrecy ? Why not be upfront and say this is what we got and this is what we plan on doing with it ? I think everyone (mostly everyone) agrees catching terrorists before they can act is a good thing. Who's to say it will stop there though ? How do we know it won't be used to gather business information, inhibit competition, disclose meetings health records or sex lives ? Its the invasiveness thats the problem with no recourse and the potential for this to go way beyond what its one benefit may have been intended for. I can only speak from a law enforcement/security perspective. I can tell you 100% that it won't be used for any ot the things you mentioned on our end....because we don't give a rats arse. We catch bad guys....the NSA catches terrorism and tries to prevent further attacks. Why the secrecy? ,,,,because we have enemies who want to know how we know what we know so that they can change tactics. Again, Snowden is going to prison...watch and see. I saw a piece of an interview with him last night.....he's a piece of garbage as far as I'm concerned. he said, "I can tap into anyon'es phone......the president even if I get the right e-mail". What isn't said there is that the "right e-mail" will contain a signed search warrant from a Federal Judge. |
| 2013-06-11 9:15 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by Left Brain] You mean like having a FISA judge that grants almost every request given to them? As far as your second quote.....nowhere did I say that we could go back and listen to phone conversations you had that have nothing to do with the crime we are investigating. Sure, if we can show probable cause, and the conversation is available, we MIGHT be able to get it. Alot will depend on the judge. As for DNA....while you weren't paying attention the SCOTUS ruled that we can, indeed, collect DNA from people we arrest, just like fingerprints...and we do...."say ahhh" I'm going to say this one more time with regard to your other point......the Supreme Court has clearly stated that information you give to a 3rd party is no longer protected by the 4th amendment. Most of what you put on the internet is not protected...don't like it?.... Burn some cars or something. My biggest objection to the comments I see here and elsewhere is the idea that the NSA did anything illegal....you may not like it, and you may not agree with it, but the only person who did anything illegal here was Snowden....and if you really want to place you money on a bet, you should put it on the idea that he will end up in prison, where he belongs. Snowden is no hero....he's a traitor. I don't know any heros that run off to China to make their play. He's a disgrace. We absoutely have some common ground here. I have said for years that the type of information we have access to is REALLY dangerous if it falls into criminal hands. My biggest fear is that the technology to get the data will fall into the wrong hands. It's astounding to me that I can put a machine up on the side of the road that reads your license plate and then virtually give me a fairly complete picture of your entire life with a few key strokes. Our privacy was deluded years ago....now it's just a matter of getting the information.....and that's really the easy part. As for your last sentence......take out "they are still collecting it" and replace it with "we are still giving it to them". I just about laugh in their faces the last few days when I hear people decrying the "privacy invasion" by the Govt......people who I know are constantly posting intimate details about their life and their family, complete with pictures, etc. on facebook. You just can't make it up......it's hysterical to me. Edited by Left Brain 2013-06-11 9:27 AM |
| 2013-06-11 9:36 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
 Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds LB, I think the key here is that you think you know what's going on, but you don't. You're not an NSA spook or a CIA spook or any other kind of intel agent, you're a cop in who-cares-where. We don't really care about how you do it because you probably do have a lot of hoops to jump through, but clearly the NSA doesn't have to jump through those hoops. |
| 2013-06-11 9:51 AM in reply to: GomesBolt |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by GomesBolt LB, I think the key here is that you think you know what's going on, but you don't. You're not an NSA spook or a CIA spook or any other kind of intel agent, you're a cop in who-cares-where. We don't really care about how you do it because you probably do have a lot of hoops to jump through, but clearly the NSA doesn't have to jump through those hoops. No, actually, I've sat on Federal wiretaps and I currently have 2 of my guys (actually one is a gal) sitting on federal wiretaps that I get briefed on. I know quite a bit about how this works. You should stick to blowing up bridges. The NSA has the same Federal Judicial oversight as all agencies......what they have in their pocket is the Patriot Act....it gives them a broader scope, but no less oversight. |
| 2013-06-11 12:44 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/cnews-us-usa-security-ger... ..and now the Germans are comparing us to the Stasi. |
| 2013-06-11 1:03 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds LB, why do you have so much faith in the NSA and the Justice Dept. doing the right thing when both Holder and Clapper have lied to oversight committees during sworn testimony? Anyone willing to break the law in public forums would not hesitate to break the law when no one is looking. |
| 2013-06-11 1:24 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by NXS LB, why do you have so much faith in the NSA and the Justice Dept. doing the right thing when both Holder and Clapper have lied to oversight committees during sworn testimony? Anyone willing to break the law in public forums would not hesitate to break the law when no one is looking. My faith comes from the men and women doing the work. Over 28 years I've met and worked with hundreds/thousands of investigators from around the country and virtually every Federal agency. Policing in this country has changed dramatically since 9/11 and most of us are involved in task forces with members of all branches of law enforcement,including Homeland Security, which is now embedded in almost every large Police agency in the country. These are dedicated professionals who don't give a rip about anything, job related, but catching and bringing criminals and terrorists to justice. To run off saying that they are acting illegally or collecting information illegally without a clue as to how the system works or what they can do within the current law is a slap in the face to those people. Don't expect me to get on board with that. To hold Snowden up as a hero is an absolute joke. I'd like to see what Holder and Clapper said that were considered lies. Edited by Left Brain 2013-06-11 1:25 PM |
| 2013-06-11 1:42 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." |
| 2013-06-11 1:45 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by NXS LB, why do you have so much faith in the NSA and the Justice Dept. doing the right thing when both Holder and Clapper have lied to oversight committees during sworn testimony? Anyone willing to break the law in public forums would not hesitate to break the law when no one is looking. My faith comes from the men and women doing the work. Over 28 years I've met and worked with hundreds/thousands of investigators from around the country and virtually every Federal agency. Policing in this country has changed dramatically since 9/11 and most of us are involved in task forces with members of all branches of law enforcement,including Homeland Security, which is now embedded in almost every large Police agency in the country. These are dedicated professionals who don't give a rip about anything, job related, but catching and bringing criminals and terrorists to justice. To run off saying that they are acting illegally or collecting information illegally without a clue as to how the system works or what they can do within the current law is a slap in the face to those people. Don't expect me to get on board with that. To hold Snowden up as a hero is an absolute joke. I'd like to see what Holder and Clapper said that were considered lies. During a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on March 12 of this year, Ron Wyden asked Director of National Intelligence James Clapper a simple question: “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” “No, sir,” Clapper shot back without a pause. |
| 2013-06-11 1:54 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by NXS Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." I have no idea about the classification of information they were asked about. I agree that those statements appear to be lies.....many people with access to classified programs and information lie about it and their involvement....in fact, all of them will if asked by a person with a lesser clearance......especially in a public forum. I don't find it that damning. ETA - one thing is for sure....we'll all know about how classified that information is/was once the FBI gets their hands on Snowden. Edited by Left Brain 2013-06-11 1:56 PM |
| 2013-06-11 2:07 PM in reply to: 0 |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by NXS Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." I have no idea about the classification of information they were asked about. I agree that those statements appear to be lies.....many people with access to classified programs and information lie about it and their involvement....in fact, all of them will if asked by a person with a lesser clearance......especially in a public forum. I don't find it that damning. ETA - one thing is for sure....we'll all know about how classified that information is/was once the FBI gets their hands on Snowden. So its OK to lie to the people who are supposed to have oversight on what you are doing? If that's OK, then there is no way, that we, the American people, will ever be sure that our rights are not being violated. Edited by NXS 2013-06-11 2:08 PM |
| 2013-06-11 2:19 PM in reply to: NXS |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by Left Brain So its OK to lie to the people who are supposed to have oversight on what you are doing? If that's OK, then there is no way, that we, the American people, will ever be sure that our rights are not being violated. Originally posted by NXS Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." I have no idea about the classification of information they were asked about. I agree that those statements appear to be lies.....many people with access to classified programs and information lie about it and their involvement....in fact, all of them will if asked by a person with a lesser clearance......especially in a public forum. I don't find it that damning. ETA - one thing is for sure....we'll all know about how classified that information is/was once the FBI gets their hands on Snowden. The only people who can have oversight on a classified program are people with the same security clearance. So yes, it's ok to lie to those people who don't have the clearance and it's been done forever. The Courts decide if our rights are being violated. Can you tell me which of your rights have been violated? I'm as curious about your position as you are about mine. This seems like really easy stuff to me, but I know from reading and listening the last few days, to a number of people and outlets, that the opinions are very polarized. Let me ask you this.....do you feel this is an invasion of your privacy: An anonymous caller tell sus that you have a fairly substantial marijuana grow operation in your basement. (I don't really care if you do, but it's against the law so I have to deal with it) I go to a judge and ask for a court order for your eletric bill history so I can see how much electricity you are using compared to your neighbors with similar sized homes. I get 6 months worth of usage to your home and see that you are using 4 times the amount as your neighbors. For 2 weeks we grab your trash after you put it out near the curb. We find fertilizer bags, packaging material, and a few broken stems from marijuana plants. We apply for, and obtain a search warrant for your home. We break your door down and dismantle your grow. Do you feel like your rights have been violated under those conditions? Do you feel like we did anything illegal?
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| 2013-06-11 3:07 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by Left Brain So its OK to lie to the people who are supposed to have oversight on what you are doing? If that's OK, then there is no way, that we, the American people, will ever be sure that our rights are not being violated. Originally posted by NXS Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." I have no idea about the classification of information they were asked about. I agree that those statements appear to be lies.....many people with access to classified programs and information lie about it and their involvement....in fact, all of them will if asked by a person with a lesser clearance......especially in a public forum. I don't find it that damning. ETA - one thing is for sure....we'll all know about how classified that information is/was once the FBI gets their hands on Snowden. The only people who can have oversight on a classified program are people with the same security clearance. So yes, it's ok to lie to those people who don't have the clearance and it's been done forever. The Courts decide if our rights are being violated. Can you tell me which of your rights have been violated? I'm as curious about your position as you are about mine. This seems like really easy stuff to me, but I know from reading and listening the last few days, to a number of people and outlets, that the opinions are very polarized. Let me ask you this.....do you feel this is an invasion of your privacy: An anonymous caller tell sus that you have a fairly substantial marijuana grow operation in your basement. (I don't really care if you do, but it's against the law so I have to deal with it) I go to a judge and ask for a court order for your eletric bill history so I can see how much electricity you are using compared to your neighbors with similar sized homes. I get 6 months worth of usage to your home and see that you are using 4 times the amount as your neighbors. For 2 weeks we grab your trash after you put it out near the curb. We find fertilizer bags, packaging material, and a few broken stems from marijuana plants. We apply for, and obtain a search warrant for your home. We break your door down and dismantle your grow. Do you feel like your rights have been violated under those conditions? Do you feel like we did anything illegal?
No, not really. You went to a judge and showed probable cause that NXS was a grower. The prob I have is that there is no probably cause when the NSA grabs any and all of my electronic data and stores it for ever, just in case. Also what would happen if LB went to the same judge that gave you the warrant for me, and said you need a blanket warrant to collect anything on say everyone in California? My guess is that he would laugh at you (at least I hope so). the prob I have is with blanket searches and seizures with no probable cause. |
| 2013-06-11 3:29 PM in reply to: NXS |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by NXS Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." In regards to this topic... The AG himself actually had to sign off on a search warrant to get e-mail and phone records to investigate a possible breach of the law... yet "Leak Guy" say they can do that when ever and how ever they darn well please without any such search warrant. That part alone is pretty interesting to this topic. |
| 2013-06-11 3:39 PM in reply to: powerman |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by NXS Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." In regards to this topic... The AG himself actually had to sign off on a search warrant to get e-mail and phone records to investigate a possible breach of the law... yet "Leak Guy" say they can do that when ever and how ever they darn well please without any such search warrant. That part alone is pretty interesting to this topic. Snowden is a liar, by exaggeration, and piece of garbage....watch and see. Heroes don't run and hide. NXS - like I said earlier...the Patriot Act gives them a broader scope. I understand your concern, and I think, as McCain said, it warrants a closer look. However, storing data that may be useful is quite a bit different than looking at specific e-mails, texts, etc. This had been blown out of proportion by the media (go figure) and people with political agendas. I still find the silence from the Obama supporters to be hilarious. Man, this would be out of control if Bush was still in office. |
| 2013-06-11 4:16 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by NXS Holder was asked during a May 15 Judiciary Committee hearing if the U.S. Department of Justice could prosecute reporters and gave the following response: “In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material -- this is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy,” the attorney general said. Since Holder made that statement, NBC News reported that the attorney general approved a search warrant for the email account and phone records of Fox News reporter James Rosen. The Judiciary Committee members were unaware of the actions taken by the Justice Department when Holder testified. In March, Clapper said at a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing that he was not aware that the National Security Agency was involved in such large-scale efforts. "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Oregon Republican Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper at the March 12 hearing. "No, sir," Clapper responded. "It does not?" Wyden pressed. Clapper recanted and said: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect -- but not wittingly." In regards to this topic... The AG himself actually had to sign off on a search warrant to get e-mail and phone records to investigate a possible breach of the law... yet "Leak Guy" say they can do that when ever and how ever they darn well please without any such search warrant. That part alone is pretty interesting to this topic. Snowden is a liar, by exaggeration, and piece of garbage....watch and see. Heroes don't run and hide. NXS - like I said earlier...the Patriot Act gives them a broader scope. I understand your concern, and I think, as McCain said, it warrants a closer look. However, storing data that may be useful is quite a bit different than looking at specific e-mails, texts, etc. This had been blown out of proportion by the media (go figure) and people with political agendas. I still find the silence from the Obama supporters to be hilarious. Man, this would be out of control if Bush was still in office. I agree the silence is quite deafening. |
| 2013-06-11 5:31 PM in reply to: NXS |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Looks like now it's being taken to court http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/us/aclu-files-suit-over-phone-sur... Here's another interesting point up for debate Timothy Edgar, who recently left the government after serving as a privacy and civil liberties official on intelligence matters in both the Bush and Obama administrations and who worked on building safeguards into the phone log program, said the notion underlying the limits was that people’s privacy is not invaded by having their records collected and stored in government computers, but only when a human extracts and examines them. So LB, it sounds to me like they are doing exactly what Snowden said they were doing, which is collecting all of the data that they can possibly get their hands on and then storing it in case they need it later. To me, that doesn't seem right. This is almost quantum physics type stuff. Is it really a violation of the 4th amendment if they don't look aka the cat is still alive. |
| 2013-06-11 6:06 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds |
| 2013-06-11 6:27 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by JoshR Come on LB, tell me this isn't illegal! http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
LMAO That's excellent!!! |
| 2013-06-11 8:26 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by JoshR Looks like now it's being taken to court http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/us/aclu-files-suit-over-phone-sur... Here's another interesting point up for debate Timothy Edgar, who recently left the government after serving as a privacy and civil liberties official on intelligence matters in both the Bush and Obama administrations and who worked on building safeguards into the phone log program, said the notion underlying the limits was that people’s privacy is not invaded by having their records collected and stored in government computers, but only when a human extracts and examines them. So LB, it sounds to me like they are doing exactly what Snowden said they were doing, which is collecting all of the data that they can possibly get their hands on and then storing it in case they need it later. To me, that doesn't seem right. This is almost quantum physics type stuff. Is it really a violation of the 4th amendment if they don't look aka the cat is still alive. I watched the Snowden interview....what he said was that he could listen to anyone's conversations or read anyone's e-mails anytime he wanted if he got the right e-mail. What he left out was that the e-mail had to contain authority from the Judicial system. He's a scumbag.....he couldn't do anything without the authority of a United States Court and he knows that. What he did in going public with our Country's intelligence program is give our enemies a place to start in circumventing our efforts. There are mechanisms in place to report suspected abuses if someone feels they need to do that. Hero my arse. |
| 2013-06-12 1:27 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Regular 1023 Madrid | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by gr33n Here's the thing- If this is so not quite the big deal and terrorism suspects only, why all the secrecy ? Why not be upfront and say this is what we got and this is what we plan on doing with it ? I think everyone (mostly everyone) agrees catching terrorists before they can act is a good thing. Who's to say it will stop there though ? How do we know it won't be used to gather business information, inhibit competition, disclose meetings health records or sex lives ? Its the invasiveness thats the problem with no recourse and the potential for this to go way beyond what its one benefit may have been intended for. I can only speak from a law enforcement/security perspective. I can tell you 100% that it won't be used for any ot the things you mentioned on our end....because we don't give a rats arse. We catch bad guys....the NSA catches terrorism and tries to prevent further attacks. Why the secrecy? ,,,,because we have enemies who want to know how we know what we know so that they can change tactics. Again, Snowden is going to prison...watch and see. I saw a piece of an interview with him last night.....he's a piece of garbage as far as I'm concerned. he said, "I can tap into anyon'es phone......the president even if I get the right e-mail". What isn't said there is that the "right e-mail" will contain a signed search warrant from a Federal Judge. In a world motivated by quick profits and 15 minutes of fame there's no way anyone can make a 100% guarantee on that. Anything and everything is just a leak away from being public knowledge. |
| 2013-06-12 8:06 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds |
| 2013-06-12 8:12 AM in reply to: switch |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds |
| 2013-06-12 8:48 AM in reply to: gr33n |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by gr33n Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by gr33n Here's the thing- If this is so not quite the big deal and terrorism suspects only, why all the secrecy ? Why not be upfront and say this is what we got and this is what we plan on doing with it ? I think everyone (mostly everyone) agrees catching terrorists before they can act is a good thing. Who's to say it will stop there though ? How do we know it won't be used to gather business information, inhibit competition, disclose meetings health records or sex lives ? Its the invasiveness thats the problem with no recourse and the potential for this to go way beyond what its one benefit may have been intended for. I can only speak from a law enforcement/security perspective. I can tell you 100% that it won't be used for any ot the things you mentioned on our end....because we don't give a rats arse. We catch bad guys....the NSA catches terrorism and tries to prevent further attacks. Why the secrecy? ,,,,because we have enemies who want to know how we know what we know so that they can change tactics. Again, Snowden is going to prison...watch and see. I saw a piece of an interview with him last night.....he's a piece of garbage as far as I'm concerned. he said, "I can tap into anyon'es phone......the president even if I get the right e-mail". What isn't said there is that the "right e-mail" will contain a signed search warrant from a Federal Judge. In a world motivated by quick profits and 15 minutes of fame there's no way anyone can make a 100% guarantee on that. Anything and everything is just a leak away from being public knowledge. Yeah, 100% is too strong.....you're right. My point is that the investigators care about terrorists and criminal activity.....they don't have time to watch/listen to you and me......we're not the targets. Everybody likes to think their life is so important that someone will want to spy on it........sure it is. |
| 2013-06-12 8:49 AM in reply to: switch |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Verizon giving millions of U.S. phone records to feds Originally posted by switch LB, this one is for you: I think that guy posted here. |
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