910XT - Stroke recognition
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2013-07-03 10:51 AM |
Regular 316 | Subject: 910XT - Stroke recognition Submitted this earlier; have had my 910xt (thanks Ray!) for about 6wks now. It continues to record most of my swims as backstroke despite the fact that I'm swimming free. For the folks ready to chime in-these swims are all in a Masters class. I gotta think the coach would point out if my stroke was THAT waaayyy off!! |
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2013-07-03 10:54 AM in reply to: prieto539 |
Veteran 327 | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition I don't have a fix for you but I have had issues as well. Whenever I do a very hard sprint freestyle it will typically read some of my interval as butterfly. I don't think there is a way to fix it. |
2013-07-03 12:16 PM in reply to: prieto539 |
Extreme Veteran 929 , Kobenhavns Kommune | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Stroke recognition isn't perfect, and I think it's actually quite difficult to do in particular without calibration to the individual swimmer. I suppose they've recorded the stroke patterns of competition swimmers and done some analysis and calibration on those data, and well, most of us don't swim that well. Don't expect it should always be spot on. Of all the features of the 910xt I find this to be the least important, I write down my programs anyway when I get home to add info on intervals and drills. The accelerometers are also responsible for registering turns at the wall, this sometimes fails in slow open turns with a soft push off. BR |
2013-07-03 3:21 PM in reply to: prieto539 |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition I found that my recognizes my stroke (and counts laps) better as I have gotten faster over the last year. What is your pace? If you swim a couple faster laps, are those more likely to be recognized as free? |
2013-07-03 5:30 PM in reply to: prieto539 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by prieto539 Submitted this earlier; have had my 910xt (thanks Ray!) for about 6wks now. It continues to record most of my swims as backstroke despite the fact that I'm swimming free. For the folks ready to chime in-these swims are all in a Masters class. I gotta think the coach would point out if my stroke was THAT waaayyy off!! I've swam countless laps, meters and yards with both the 910 and Garmin Swim and I have never had even one lap misrecognized when doing freestyle.It could be something with your particular watch but I'd be willing to bet your stroke has some quirk to it where it's getting confused with the stroke style. Just trying to visualize what it might be... maybe you're not finishing off your pull and taking your arm out of the water way too early??? |
2013-07-03 5:40 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by GMAN 19030 My experience has been the same, and I also agree with Gman's thoughts on the cause.Originally posted by prieto539 Submitted this earlier; have had my 910xt (thanks Ray!) for about 6wks now. It continues to record most of my swims as backstroke despite the fact that I'm swimming free. For the folks ready to chime in-these swims are all in a Masters class. I gotta think the coach would point out if my stroke was THAT waaayyy off!! I've swam countless laps, meters and yards with both the 910 and Garmin Swim and I have never had even one lap misrecognized when doing freestyle.It could be something with your particular watch but I'd be willing to bet your stroke has some quirk to it where it's getting confused with the stroke style. Just trying to visualize what it might be... maybe you're not finishing off your pull and taking your arm out of the water way too early??? |
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2013-07-03 6:03 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by GMAN 19030 My experience has been the same, and I also agree with Gman's thoughts on the cause. Originally posted by prieto539 Submitted this earlier; have had my 910xt (thanks Ray!) for about 6wks now. It continues to record most of my swims as backstroke despite the fact that I'm swimming free. For the folks ready to chime in-these swims are all in a Masters class. I gotta think the coach would point out if my stroke was THAT waaayyy off!! I've swam countless laps, meters and yards with both the 910 and Garmin Swim and I have never had even one lap misrecognized when doing freestyle.It could be something with your particular watch but I'd be willing to bet your stroke has some quirk to it where it's getting confused with the stroke style. Just trying to visualize what it might be... maybe you're not finishing off your pull and taking your arm out of the water way too early???
I'm glad someone else was visualizing what part of the freestyle stroke when done incorrectly would sort of look like a backstroke. |
2013-07-04 8:35 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Regular 316 | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Spoke w/Garmin yesterday. They said the 910xt was calibrated on ONE individual's stroke. They also said they've issued a firmware fix recently; I just downloaded it; we'll see tomorrow how it works out. |
2013-07-04 8:35 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Regular 316 | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Spoke w/Garmin yesterday. They said the 910xt was calibrated on ONE individual's stroke. They also said they've issued a firmware fix recently; I just downloaded it; we'll see tomorrow how it works out. |
2013-07-05 12:00 PM in reply to: prieto539 |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition The 2.70 firmware has been out for quite awhile, but it was supposed to address lots of small issues. Does your watch record your laps fairly accurately? Stroke recognition is only a gimmick unless you do the other strokes. If the lap counter works fine, that is really all that matters. |
2013-07-05 1:23 PM in reply to: clemson05 |
Member 121 Los Gatos | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition All I can say is...I had exactly the same problem when I first bought my 910, when I was a newbie swimmer. My freestyle would frequently get identified as backstroke, butterfly or the dreaded "mixed"... But as I took lessons and my stroke improved, so did the Garmin's stroke recognition. Now it *always* recognizes my freestyle. Coincidence? I suspect not! :-) |
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2013-07-05 2:07 PM in reply to: smallard |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt |
2013-07-05 2:14 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt Indeed. If you tell it you are doing an ironman, at about 2.4ish miles, it should be looking for a running motion and switch sports autmagically. That would free up the lap button while in auto-multisport. |
2013-07-05 3:18 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt
It does do that when you hit the lap button. Goes from Swim to T1 to Bike to T2 to Run to Finish all with the push of the lap button. |
2013-07-05 3:19 PM in reply to: dfroelich |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Indeed. If you tell it you are doing an ironman, at about 2.4ish miles, it should be looking for a running motion and switch sports autmagically. That would free up the lap button while in auto-multisport. I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt There's numerous reasons why that's never going to work. |
2013-07-05 3:32 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt
It does do that when you hit the lap button. Goes from Swim to T1 to Bike to T2 to Run to Finish all with the push of the lap button. I wish. In that mode, with hitting the lap button at the right time, it does indeed switch. It's just that AFTER the race the data aren't there. It loses signal about half way through the swim and is all bollocksed up for the remainder - although it looks just fine DURING the race (grrrrrr), so you don't even know that it's messed up until you try to pull the data afterward. All the indications during the race are right (the little symbols match the activity - s/T1/b/T2/r - but the data don't afterward. Getting old... I know several people to whom this happens, and most now go with dedicated devices for each leg. WTF Garmin? |
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2013-07-05 3:39 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Extreme Veteran 929 , Kobenhavns Kommune | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. What? You want the watch to confirm your vague suspicion that you might be riding a bike? |
2013-07-05 3:44 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition A GPS watch is never going to be accurate on the swim because it basically loses it's signal every time your watch hand goes under water. That's just reality. It should pick up the signal and hold the signal once it's on land. Your issue is a faulty device or user error or not having the right settings or something with your data analysis software. I've done countless races with either the 310 or 910 on my wrist and my bike and run data has always been fine. |
2013-07-05 4:22 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by GMAN 19030 A GPS watch is never going to be accurate on the swim because it basically loses it's signal every time your watch hand goes under water. That's just reality. It should pick up the signal and hold the signal once it's on land. Your issue is a faulty device or user error or not having the right settings or something with your data analysis software. I've done countless races with either the 310 or 910 on my wrist and my bike and run data has always been fine. I know this is a little OT, but I've suspected the same thing, because I've never had a problem with mine. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I always turn on my 910 well prior to the start, and check the signal in the settings to make sure I have as many satellites as possible. I've often wondered if some of the problems occur when the device isn't turned on long enough in advance, and it doesn't have all the satellites before the start, so it doesn't have as many data points to determine location.
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2013-07-05 4:24 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Indeed. If you tell it you are doing an ironman, at about 2.4ish miles, it should be looking for a running motion and switch sports autmagically. That would free up the lap button while in auto-multisport. I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt There's numerous reasons why that's never going to work. Such as? I'd even settle for the watch switching sports when it detects the speed cadence sensor (or power), then again once it detects the footpod. Alternatively, I'd rather have the lap button still work as laps, but a long press would switch sports (would also eliminate accidental presses). It would only require that a long press of the lap button does not trigger a workout reset while the watch is in multisport mode. All I really want is to still use laps in multisport mode. It seems like there are several ways to accomplish this. |
2013-07-05 4:29 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Extreme Veteran 929 , Kobenhavns Kommune | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by GMAN 19030 It does do that when you hit the lap button. Goes from Swim to T1 to Bike to T2 to Run to Finish all with the push of the lap button. The only problem I have with the lap button is pushing it while running with the bike, worse yet, while doing a flying mount. Anyone able to hit the lap button AND fly mount at the same time? |
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2013-07-05 4:34 PM in reply to: dfroelich |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Such as? I'd even settle for the watch switching sports when it detects the speed cadence sensor (or power), then again once it detects the footpod. Alternatively, I'd rather have the lap button still work as laps, but a long press would switch sports (would also eliminate accidental presses). It would only require that a long press of the lap button does not trigger a workout reset while the watch is in multisport mode. All I really want is to still use laps in multisport mode. It seems like there are several ways to accomplish this. Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Indeed. If you tell it you are doing an ironman, at about 2.4ish miles, it should be looking for a running motion and switch sports autmagically. That would free up the lap button while in auto-multisport. I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt There's numerous reasons why that's never going to work. How would automatically switching sports handle transitions? Just out of curiosity, what would you use manual laps for during races?
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2013-07-05 6:23 PM in reply to: dfroelich |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Such as? Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Indeed. If you tell it you are doing an ironman, at about 2.4ish miles, it should be looking for a running motion and switch sports autmagically. That would free up the lap button while in auto-multisport. I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt There's numerous reasons why that's never going to work. 1. The distance measurement isn't remotely accurate when swimming because of the constant signal loss. 2. The course is probably not exactly 2.4 miles. Even if it was, you wouldn't be swimming the perfect line as most triathletes can't swim straight in OW. 3. How would it know that you're biking, and how would it know you were transitioning, then running? You mentioned the speed/cadence or power sensor... okay. Then you mentioned a foot pod. How many people race with a foot pod? 5%??? Even if you had a foot pod, how would it know the difference between T2 or running? 4. How would it know that you crossed the finish line or do we finally execute the absurdly simple task of hitting a button to stop the watch. Once again, we're talking about hitting a button four times during a race. |
2013-07-05 6:56 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Such as? Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Indeed. If you tell it you are doing an ironman, at about 2.4ish miles, it should be looking for a running motion and switch sports autmagically. That would free up the lap button while in auto-multisport. I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt There's numerous reasons why that's never going to work. 1. The distance measurement isn't remotely accurate when swimming because of the constant signal loss. 2. The course is probably not exactly 2.4 miles. Even if it was, you wouldn't be swimming the perfect line as most triathletes can't swim straight in OW. 3. How would it know that you're biking, and how would it know you were transitioning, then running? You mentioned the speed/cadence or power sensor... okay. Then you mentioned a foot pod. How many people race with a foot pod? 5%??? Even if you had a foot pod, how would it know the difference between T2 or running? 4. How would it know that you crossed the finish line or do we finally execute the absurdly simple task of hitting a button to stop the watch. Once again, we're talking about hitting a button four times during a race. Great points. I'll start with 'why'? Accidentally hitting lap in automultisport would really mess up your tracking. If you happen to notice it, then you skip hitting lap at the next point...and you are back on track. This is a minor point, I know. Many people say they race this way countless times without that error. I did not. Rolling down my wetsuit sleeve hit a button, either start or lap, and the watch beeped and buzzed. I got it sorted out before the start...but it just seems like an easy mistake to make, and something that would be just as easy to fix in the watch'es software. It could be solved by the two ways I already mentioned: A: using accelerometer triggers or B: using hardware sensing... A: accelerometer triggers If it can sense the difference between freestyle and breaststroke, it should be able to sense that you are now running and not swimming...cue T1, then it would sense your hand are more motionless, but your speed is going quick...cue bike leg. Now it senses slow speed, and arm swing: T2...after a pause of no distance, rapid arm swing and running pace, cue run leg. It could prompt for race distances, so it would autoexclude bathroom breaks if you are 30 miles into the bike leg of an ironman. Swim distance is of course sketchy, but instead of a trigger window of 112 +/- 5% miles on the bike, it would use 2.4 miles +/- 20% for the swim (or an appropriate value). The benefits of all this are: 2 buttons presses: start and stop. still have use of lap button don't have to worry about accidentally hitting lap button Obvious downside would be: What if the watches triggers at the wrong time. I have no clue if they could make this reliable or not. But I think it would a great option to have. B: using hardware sensing.. This could be completely independent, or in conjunction with above. If independent, it would not give you T1 or T2 times, but would be a nice addition which would act as a check point to false triggering (would reduce probability of the problem from above). As you mentioned, very few people run with the footpod, but the bike->run trigger could just as easily be: the power meter or speed/cadence sensor stops reporting. (bonus solution...) C: using location points You can already set auto-lap to mark coordinates to trigger the next lap. If you set these up before an automultisport, would that serve to trigger the switches? Depending on how the course is set up...You would just need points at the Transition gates. Downside here, is not being able to use the lap button during the race. So...those are my guesses of how this system could work and why this should be added (as an option to the current way). |
2013-07-05 7:05 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: 910XT - Stroke recognition Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Such as? I'd even settle for the watch switching sports when it detects the speed cadence sensor (or power), then again once it detects the footpod. Alternatively, I'd rather have the lap button still work as laps, but a long press would switch sports (would also eliminate accidental presses). It would only require that a long press of the lap button does not trigger a workout reset while the watch is in multisport mode. All I really want is to still use laps in multisport mode. It seems like there are several ways to accomplish this. Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Indeed. If you tell it you are doing an ironman, at about 2.4ish miles, it should be looking for a running motion and switch sports autmagically. That would free up the lap button while in auto-multisport. I just wished that it would recognize different SPORTS when in multisport. Not much use for looking at a race if it can't tell the difference between biking and running! Ugh. Matt There's numerous reasons why that's never going to work. How would automatically switching sports handle transitions? Just out of curiosity, what would you use manual laps for during races?
How would automatically switching sports handle transitions? I gave my best guesses in the post above. It seems like those should work, but I have no clue how reliable they would be! Just out of curiosity, what would you use manual laps for during races? Off the top of my head: A) ex: if the bike leg splits up into: climb, flat, decent (like my upcoming race at grand columbian). I would hit lap at each split so I can monitor my effort in those stages independently. B) I was chasing down my friend at a previous race, and I see him coming at me on an out and back. I wanted to hit lap, so then I could switch to a screen with a "lap time" field. Once I hit the turn-around, double that time to get how far back I am. C) I run my marathons keeping an eyes both on mile times, but I clump them into 10k's. So every ~quarter of the run, I hit the lap, reevaluate and readjust my pacing. D) 2 lap swim, hit the lap so you can quickly compare lap one to lap two? Of course...all of those things can be done mentally, but as you know, the mind gets a little weak after so many hours in the sun. |
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