General Discussion Gear Reviews & Questions » Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it? Rss Feed  
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2013-07-03 4:52 PM

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Subject: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
I am toying with idea of upgrading to a new tri bike. Something in the vein of Shiv (Rival or Expert) , Speed Concept 7.5, P3 ... Looks to be several nice bikes in the 3k ballpark.

Assuming fit works out, I am wondering,,, how much of an improvement might i see in terms of watts savings/ mph if I were upgrading from an Specialized Transition LE (entry level tri).

I've got decent wheels already ,dt suisse. Those definately feel faster, don't regreat the purchase.

Not looking for exact, just a finger in the air guesstimate of tangible speed improvement.


2013-07-03 5:12 PM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
What is your current FTP?
How good is your current fit?
Are you getting a new fit with the bike?
How well is your drivetrain maintained?

Overall I would guess your improvement will not be measurable.

2013-07-03 7:30 PM
in reply to: timf79

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Ftp - , indoor trainer , cogan protocol put me at 192 , I use an I bike (sucks) so I am no sure of accuracy by I am sure I've got plenty of room to improve
I weight about 138 -140

been 3 yrs since fitted , got freeby with bike, so expensive ... do you guys do annuals?

Thanks for responding

2013-07-05 8:18 AM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
first question... whats a transition LE? the aluminum or the carbon bike?

If it's the carbon transition... you aren't buying a whole lot. Most tests show the Transition pretty neck and neck with the P3. The Shiv and SC are probably a little faster than that. If it's the older Transition then you're probably buying a bit more.

If you're wondering if your bike is holding you back... the answer is no, considering you have a good position/fit on the bike.

Is it worth it to upgrade? Depends. If your fit sucks on the current bike and you upgrade to a bike that fits well... yeah, it's worth it. If your fit is fine... What are a few watts "worth" to you.

2013-07-05 9:54 AM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
My transition LE is aluminum , with carbon fork.... 2010 model I believe...kinda old school, but nice bike for the money (1150 USD new)

Recurring theme I'm hearing "fit trumps ", if I do get something, I'll try out several comparable makes/models for optimal fit

Thanks!

2013-07-06 8:06 AM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Depending on fit there are many other good optons out there. Maybe get a $2,000 bike and add some wheels? Instead of a P3, maybe look at a P2? The QR Carbon Kilo and a Slice are nice bikes also for around $2,000. You have some options. Are you doing just sprints and oly's or are you doing or planning on doing HIM and longer races? If doing shorter races you don't really need carbon and can easily get by on an aluminum bike. All things to consider.


2013-07-07 11:03 AM
in reply to: #4795545


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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
New bikes are always fun!! I've found that the specialized is overpriced. I love my specialized mountain bike! But since getting into tris I have found that the specialized line carries a jump in price due to branding. You missed some other good brands: felt, QR, cannondale isn't bad to name a few. No offense to specialized riders! I love what the brand has done, just way higher price than comparable bikes.
2013-07-07 3:06 PM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?

In the "watts saved per dollar spent" calculation, new equipment is almost never worth it.  Assume everything else is equal, and you can save 10 watts (which is what a zippy new bike might get you), is 10 watts worth $3000?  probably not.  But, that said, you want a new bike.  New bikes are great toys.  they're fun, beautiful and you'll enjoy the hell out of it.  So, get a new bike.

my rule of thumb is:  You get to spend on your bike, the number of miles you ride it in a year.  So, if you ride that bike $3K mi/year (this assumes that you'll keep the bike many years), then you can 'justify' your purchase.

On a '$/second saved' calculation, an aero helmet, a good slick tri onesey, an integrated aero setup for your water bottles, Fast tires/latex tubes, FLO wheels and a good fitting- all will come out more cost effective in getting you speed than a new bike.  That said- let us know which bike you buy and you get to post a picture so we can ogle.  

2013-07-08 1:07 PM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Originally posted by morey000

In the "watts saved per dollar spent" calculation, new equipment is almost never worth it.  Assume everything else is equal, and you can save 10 watts (which is what a zippy new bike might get you), is 10 watts worth $3000?  probably not.  But, that said, you want a new bike.  New bikes are great toys.  they're fun, beautiful and you'll enjoy the hell out of it.  So, get a new bike.

my rule of thumb is:  You get to spend on your bike, the number of miles you ride it in a year.  So, if you ride that bike $3K mi/year (this assumes that you'll keep the bike many years), then you can 'justify' your purchase.

On a '$/second saved' calculation, an aero helmet, a good slick tri onesey, an integrated aero setup for your water bottles, Fast tires/latex tubes, FLO wheels and a good fitting- all will come out more cost effective in getting you speed than a new bike.  That said- let us know which bike you buy and you get to post a picture so we can ogle.  




I really like your rule of thumb. That is awesome... I currently ride about 4K mi per year , so the math adds up! lol

Came across an article on the watts per dollar (link below in case someone hasn't see it)...Grabbed a spaceman helmet for next race.... No brainer, As for aero bike frame, I think I'll wait til I hit my FTP goal , it'll be my reward.

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/
2013-07-08 4:39 PM
in reply to: Mtthwprc45

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
One benefit of the specialized Shiv lineup is that you get the same aerodynamics from the Comp through the S-Works (and the exact same frame minus paint from Comp to Pro). Other companies will give you an older design, change the fork, change the headtube design, etc. for their less expensive models. However, the parts on the Specialized bikes typically seem to be a bit lower end than what other companies offer for the same price (once you get to 105 I don't really think it matters much).

Disclosure: I bought a Shiv Comp frame and built it myself, best able to balance the cost and aero benefit.
2013-07-09 11:53 AM
in reply to: bobrentz1

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Originally posted by bobrentz1



Disclosure: I bought a Shiv Comp frame and built it myself, best able to balance the cost and aero benefit.


Interesting point you bring up...Too bad I have no mechanical skillz, barely replaced my chain last week


2013-07-09 9:28 PM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Most of building and maintaining a modern bike can be accomplished with $50 in tools and you browser directed towards Park Tools instruction guides or Youtube. Many companies even have product specific installation videos.

You can always spend more on tools (torque wrenches are nice) in the end you will be saving money and time over bringing your bike in for any little adjustments over the course of ownership.
2013-07-11 5:32 AM
in reply to: bobrentz1

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
I agree with bobrentz1 except for one thing, torque wrenches are a little more than just nice, they're pretty much essential if you wrenching anything a little delicate. Carbon components, Ti bolts, etc. really need to have the correct torque or you could damage them (under torquing can be just as damaging as over torquing).

Start off with the essentials, metric hex key set (2-10mm), a flat head and a philips screwdriver, cassette tools (whip and lockring tool), and a cable housing cutter. That's about all you need to start with and will allow you to clean and maintain the bike, swap components, make adjustments, etc.

There's lots of excellent resources online, ParkTools website is great, but you can also find quite a few detailed videos on youtube. If you feel unsure, leave it the LBS to take care of, or better yet, find a buddy that has done some wrenching (a six pack as a bribe always helps) and watch carefully so you learn.
2013-07-14 3:22 PM
in reply to: audiojan

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
FWIW: Field testing with the spaceman-aero-helmet went well... Got one last week, noticed a slight difference right away. Best aero investment I've made thus far for the $$,this weekend's best bike split I've recorded as well...If anyone is on the fence about purchasing one...I gotta emphatically recommend!
2013-07-14 3:25 PM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Oh and by the way..don't put it on backwards in transition...arguably my most embarrassing moment in triathlon to date ...Thanks to nice lady who corrected me before I exited transition ....That would've been a sweet race photo
2013-07-15 8:33 AM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
I'm in a really similar situation. I'm new to triathlon(first year) and only little over a year on the bike. I bought a specialized alum. transition as well. I've done several sprints so far and one Olympic distance. My "A" race is the B2b full this fall, and I'm getting fitted for a new Shiv in a few weeks. I know my bike fitness is improving by my results. I did purchase a set of zipp 404 for my races. I have tested them on my regular training courses around my home. I have one route that is 17mi. and is a moderate rolling course as compared to the sprints I've done and how they were rated. I don't have a power meter, but just tracking cadence, HR, time and speed. I've found by just changing the wheels and tires, I picked up a avg. 1mph and just over 3 minutes on this course. HR,cadence, and effort were almost Identical. I am looking to upgrade my helmet next as well to see those results. I'm looking at the LG vortices, But my only concern right now is that I have a habit of dropping my chin, which puts the back of the helmet up in the air. Let me know what bike and results you find, and I'll keep you posted on my end.


2013-07-16 12:28 PM
in reply to: dpg31

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
dpg31 - let me know how you get a long with the shiv, am curious to hear about your real world result/comparison to the transition elite
2013-07-24 8:38 AM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Update: Went ahead and got the LG vorttice helmet and tired it this morn with my stock transition bike. First time out on my TT route and was .3mph quicker than my fastest stock setup (regular road helmet) It was 22 seconds quicker over 10mi with everything else being close to =. I'll take it. Also getting fitted for my Shiv comp this w/e. I'll keep you updated
2013-07-29 9:35 AM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Shiv update: Finally got on the new bike this morning and thought I'd let you know how things were. My lbs set my shiv up off of my transition #s Which they setup originally. I'm scheduling a Retul bike fitting with Biomechaniks now. They did set the shiv up for long course, so my stack height is a little higher. Did about 7mi warmup to just feel things out. First thing you notice is the shiv is ALOT more" twitchy" in the front end, took a bit to get use to that. I don't think it accelerates as fast as the transition, kind of hard for me to tell right out of the box.Then the BIG difference starts to unfold. Once you start getting above 16mph the bike starts to wake up. So at this point I got to my 10mi TT course. The first 5 mi has the heavier rollers and the second 5mi is almost all flat. Once you get it rolling you really know where your money went, I don't think it climbs as well as the transition but its so much easier to maintain your speed everywhere else, I think the energy savings on a long course will be huge. My times stack up like this: Fastest Transition first 5mi 16:10 @ 18.6mph Shiv: 15:23 @19.5 next 5mi Transition- 14.08@21.2mph Shiv-13.06@22.9mph Total 10miTT Transition 30:18@ 19.8mph Shiv 28:29@21.06mph. I'm REALLY happy with the way it is right out of the box especially for a long course bike. Now with that said I don't think I'll be as happy with it on a course with a lot of climbing. I did take to a part of my route, after I did my TT, that has some pretty good hills. (I was pretty spent at this point(just did the 10 mi TT, Sunday Ran 15mi, Sat Did Olympic Tri)But for some reason it just didn't feel that good @ 10-12mph on a climb, felt sluggish. I'll let you know more when I hit some hills with fresher legs. All in all I think this was the right purchase for me, I will continue to use my Transition for training and maybe some hill work, but really think the shiv is going to be my go2 bike for a while. Hope this helps you with your choice.
2013-07-29 1:32 PM
in reply to: dpg31

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
Congrats, that's awesome....! I appreciate you sending me your detailed impressions comparisons - that really does help.

You'll hafta post the obligatory pic. for folks to drool over.
2013-07-29 3:06 PM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?




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2013-07-30 12:42 PM
in reply to: dpg31

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
looks great,, you are really built for speed now!
2013-07-30 4:15 PM
in reply to: dpg31

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?

Originally posted by dpg31

er... excuse me.  but are your arm-rests higher than your saddle?

you must be built like a t-rex

2013-07-30 6:32 PM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
lol.... pic phone and funny angle the way its leaning against the wall, front wheel looks bigger than the back. Easier for riding wheelies...
2013-07-31 11:51 AM
in reply to: Stuckinthemiddle

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Subject: RE: Upgrade to ~3K Bike ...Worth it?
one more shiv review: Did my 20mi hill course this morning. Its a out and back route with most of the climbing the first 10 mi. To start the shiv ends up 2# heavier than my transition with the same wheels.Didnt think that would even matter, but you can kinda tell on the climbs. Granted these aren't HC climbs but for a flat lander like me its enough. This route does have 2 rated climbs on is one just over a mile The shiv does feel really sluggish for me going up. Hills I could maintain 9mph on the Transition, I was at 7-8 on the shiv, some of the rises that I could stay in the big ring on the Transition I was having to drop to the small ring. So I was working a little harder on the shiv to get up the climbs, BUT something funny happened when I got to the turn around.I was almost a minute faster at 10mi. due to the downhill bits and the brief flats. Now on the way back I just have a general rule to stop pedaling going down hill when I get over 25-27mph, cause I don't think the extra work for a mph or two is worth it. So on the way back I have to say the Shiv was awesome. I hit speeds of 45-47mph on winding roads and it felt like I was driving a corvette. On the transition42-43 was as fast as I got before and it seemed a little white knuckle at that. By the time it leveled out and I had finished I was just over 5 minutes faster and avg right at 2mph quicker.I know there is better bikes out there for the money, but I couldn't be happier with spending mine on the Shiv. Let me know in the future which way you end up going and your reviews.
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