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2013-07-06 11:55 PM

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Subject: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you

Over at Yahoo! Health they tell me apparently all this cardio is making me fat, destroying my lungs, and depressing me, among other things.

The author is Jim Karas, who is apparently a big deal (according to him and the article anyways).  Among many things in the article I take issue with, I *really* don't like the end, the self-titled Jim Karas challenge: "Go to your gym, and look at the people performing cardio. More than likely, they are not in shape, hanging over the machines, frowning, and burning nothing but their precious time, which all but guarantees that they will continue to “live life large,” and that’s not “large” in a good way. Then look at the people performing strength training. What do you see? People who are long and lean with flat abs, great posture, and sexy bodies. Which person would you rather be?"

What a terrible argument, and what a ridiculous thing to say.  This guy seriously comes across like a bully.  Like one of the douchebag sales guys at the gym who bully you into a lifetime membership and personal trainer and gym bag and whatever else they can guilt you into.

I know there's already a bunch of threads on here about this sort of thing, but this article really bothered me for some reason.  All the runners/bikers I encounter when I'm out doing the same seem like a cheery, friendly sort, and I have no idea what he's talking about with them looking out of shape compared to the gym rats on the bench press.

At the time I posted this thread, this article was the first article on the Yahoo! main page.  It seems irresponsible to me to present that as it is, without at least maybe encouraging people to just get out and exercise one way or another.  Maybe don't go straight to the weights without talking to somebody, don't go injure yourself, or something.

WALKING IS A WASTE OF TIME, YOU COULD GET TO THE GYM MUCH FASTER BY DRIVING AND THEN DOING A CIRCUIT WORKOUT AND DRIVING BACK.  DONT RUN, YOU MIGHT INJURE YOURSELF, GO DO SOME DEADLIFTS INSTEAD. BIKING IS STUPID IT WILL JUST RUIN YOUR POSTURE.

I'm going to wake up early tomorrow and go for a 3 hour bike ride, and I'm going to smile the whole time.  Well, most of the time.



2013-07-07 12:11 AM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Although there is a lot of hyperbole in the article, there is also quite a bit in your response.

Different people have different reactions to different workouts. I think the article and your response put a stake at each end of the spectrum, whereas the truth is in the middle. Different people's bodies react differently to different exercises.

My wife is a body builder. She has an amazing body. She began training for a half mary and although she has seen many benefits to it, she has also seen her body behave in ways that are also fairly negative. Needless to say, she is looking forward to this thing being done so that she can have her body back.

I believe TriMarni Training found that some women's metabolism does not allow them to get "a bodybuilder's body" with endurance sports. Many women actually put on a few pounds.

Although it would be foolish to say cardio is bad for you, I also believe that (as the article suggested) interval training and weight training is better for many people who are trying to "look their best".

Ultimately, different exersize affects people in different ways and it would be foolish to say "one sport fits all"....triathlon included.
2013-07-07 12:40 AM
in reply to: lifejustice

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you

Originally posted by lifejustice Although there is a lot of hyperbole in the article, there is also quite a bit in your response.
Mine has plenty of hyperbole, but I think when you make exaggerated claims expressed as fact instead of simply trying to evoke emotional response it doesn't really count as hyperbole, so I'm not sure his has that much.  That having been said, I'm not being paid by Yahoo to give health advice to the world.  
Originally posted by lifejustice Different people have different reactions to different workouts.
Agreed completely.  I tried to make clear in my response that I think better advice would include encouraging people to get out and exercise "one way or another".  By which I mean cardio, circuit workouts, strength training, whatever strikes your fancy and motivates you.  
Originally posted by lifejusticeI think the article and your response put a stake at each end of the spectrum, whereas the truth is in the middle.
I guess my response was unclear, I was and am not saying tri/cardio is the answer for everyone.  It works for me, but I didn't say it had to work for everyone.  I'd think I would take just as much issue with that argument (particularly if it was presented in such a way as to alienate people who thought otherwise, a la Mr. Karas), as I do with the article I linked to. 
Originally posted by lifejusticeAlthough it would be foolish to say cardio is bad for you, I also believe that (as the article suggested) interval training and weight training is better for many people who are trying to "look their best". Ultimately, different exersize affects people in different ways and it would be foolish to say "one sport fits all"....triathlon included. 
But that's exactly what the guy is saying, that cardio is in no uncertain terms bad for you.  The article didn't really *suggest* that interval training was just better for many, what it says very clearly is that interval training is *the answer for everyone*.  "...what should you be doing? Only interval-based strength training."  "without strength training, you are all but doomed to fail."

 

I didn't mean to come across as trying to argue the polar opposite point of what Karas is saying.  Not only do I agree completely that there are different exercise solutions for different people, that's exactly what I was trying to say the article should have pointed out.  

2013-07-07 4:58 AM
in reply to: #4797405

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
I read that and that article is ridiculous. In my opinion.
2013-07-07 5:17 AM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Terrible article with many misunderstandings of exercise physiology. However, this is really no different than most mainstream fitness articles that are trying to sell a product or concept.

Shane
2013-07-07 7:53 AM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Don't take what this guy has to say seriously. He has a degree from a business school, and is selling a book and workout program so he knows how to market bullsh*t. Also he has talked about his workout plan and book on Dr. Oz who is notorious for promoting people to sell their magic pills which will help lazy customers lose weight/look years younger without putting in any actual effort.


2013-07-07 8:02 AM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
The best part of articles on yahoo, are the comments people make about them.
2013-07-07 8:36 AM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Who the hell cares?


Do what you believe you need to do to make your life happier. As long as it doesn't hinder someone else, have at it.

Needing external affirmation shouldn't be a factor beyond your immediate family and idiots like that article writer are to be ignored utterly.

2013-07-07 9:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
I stopped reading after: " There truly is only one reason to exercise: To increase your metabolism in order to burn more calories 24 hours a day, seven days a week."

That statement indicates he has narrowed down his "population", for convenience, in an attempt to strengthen his argument, or possbly to sell something.

Whatevs. I'll keep running & riding because I enjoy them. Swimming I'll keep doing to increase my metabolism to burn more calories 24 hours a day, 7 days a week ....oh wait, crap!
2013-07-07 10:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Go to your gym, and look at the people performing cardio. More than likely, they are not in shape, hanging over the machines, frowning, and burning nothing but their precious time, which all but guarantees that they will continue to “live life large,” and that’s not “large” in a good way. Then look at the people performing strength training. What do you see? People who are long and lean with flat abs, great posture, and sexy bodies. Which person would you rather be?"


Can't help but question someone whose method of study is to check out the "sexy bodies" in the weight room.

Balance is everything. Swim, ride and run but don't neglect your strength too.

Edited by BikesOfALesserGod 2013-07-07 10:44 AM
2013-07-07 10:44 AM
in reply to: Shop Cat

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by Shop Cat

I stopped reading after: " There truly is only one reason to exercise: To increase your metabolism in order to burn more calories 24 hours a day, seven days a week."

That statement indicates he has narrowed down his "population", for convenience, in an attempt to strengthen his argument, or possbly to sell something.

Whatevs. I'll keep running & riding because I enjoy them. Swimming I'll keep doing to increase my metabolism to burn more calories 24 hours a day, 7 days a week ....oh wait, crap!


Agreed. What a load of hooey that article was. The problem is that for most people who are looking for any excuse at all not to exercise, this is going to encourage them. There is no discussion of cardio-pulmonary fitness, which in the end, if you don't have it won't matter how much muscle you have, you will statistically likely live a shorter less healthy life. It also implies that people who do aerobic exercise have no muscle, which of course is a crock. Should you have a balanced workout, yes, but that isn't what this moron is advocating. I've been running for around 33 years, doing Tri's for 4, and I am the leanest and healthiest woman over 55 that I know.


2013-07-07 11:23 AM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe


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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Fine I'll stop doing cardio.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to give up cigarettes, binge drinking, fried food, watching too much TV, and pizza with strangers too.
2013-07-07 1:55 PM
in reply to: skibummer

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
All I have to say is f**** the haters and know your own body. That article did sound antagonistic and misinformed. Training for tri has been what got me into the best shape of my life. I actually gave up on the weights, and now I just do body weight conditioning exercises between cardio.
2013-07-07 3:06 PM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
As someone who likes weight training and who believes that for fat loss, weight training is valuable, I can also say that this is BS. Join me as I pick apart all of the flaws in logic.


Better heart health than classic cardio because exercising in intervals enhances what is called heart rate variability, and by doing so, you reduce your risk of heart disease much more than classic cardio.


I have read something about this, but I'm no expert. How about combining long, slow distance training with some intervals thrown in to optimize heart health?

A maintenance and increase in your lean muscle tissue. A diet without strength training results in a diminished metabolism. I bet you always wondered why you couldn’t keep the weight off. It’s simple, without strength training, you are all but doomed to fail.


Some truth here, which is why for those looking to lose fat, adding in some resistance training is generally a good idea. But the difference in metabolism only becomes significant if you're talking several pounds of muscle.

An enhanced after burn. You never want to worry about the calories you burn during exercise. More important are the calories burned after exercise, called EPOC (Excess, Post-Exercise Oxygen Consumption). You get up to 38 hours of EPOC from interval-based strength training. That is the key to long-term weight loss success. (You get maybe two to three hours of EPOC from classic cardio training.)


Lyle McDonald, who can be a self-righteous azzhole but who is nonetheless very knowledge in the area of fat loss and has kept up with the research in the area, wrote an extensive article on this. Basically, the EPOC from interval training amounts to less than 100 extra calories, and usually much less, burned per day (Lyle calculated it was 14). Lyle mentioned another practical point in his article: because interval training is more intense most people cannot do it as long. So, a person who exercises at a longer duration but at a lower intensity may actually burn more calories than the interval trainer even if EPOC is factored in.

Optimized posture. When you properly balance your interval-based strength training, you immediately see improvement in your posture.


Please provide evidence of this "immediate" improvement. From what I've read, if someone has truly serious postural issues and/or muscle imbalances, weight training can make things worse. But for someone who sits behind a desk all day, why would't going for a run also improve posture?

Flat abs. Honestly, most abdominal exercises are a complete and utter waste of time. Want to burn abdominal fat? Strength train your upper and lower body, blast off that fat, and reveal defined abs.


I do agree with this to a point. Most so-called "core training programs" are, indeed, a waste of time. But there are a few ab exercises that will actually increase ab strength which will lead to improved core strength. If this statement is meant to say that you cannot spot reduce fat from your stomach with ab exercises, this is not news to most people. Spot reduction has been debunked as a myth since the early '80s. It's 2013 Jim, tell us something we don't know.

Results. If you don’t believe me, take the “Jim Karas Challenge.” Go to your gym, and look at the people performing cardio. More than likely, they are not in shape, hanging over the machines, frowning, and burning nothing but their precious time, which all but guarantees that they will continue to “live life large,” and that’s not “large” in a good way. Then look at the people performing strength training. What do you see? People who are long and lean with flat abs, great posture, and sexy bodies. Which person would you rather be?


Hospitals are filled with sick and injured people. Therefore, if you don't want to get sick or injured, don't go to a hospital. This is the logical fallacy of assuming that correlation equals causation. Enough said.
2013-07-07 4:45 PM
in reply to: DanielG


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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by DanielG

Who the hell cares?


Do what you believe you need to do to make your life happier. As long as it doesn't hinder someone else, have at it.

Needing external affirmation shouldn't be a factor beyond your immediate family and idiots like that article writer are to be ignored utterly.




+1!
2013-07-07 9:02 PM
in reply to: Fresno_Joe

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Oh sh*t! I'd better quit all this cardio so I can get lean! No one will love me with cellulite!


2013-07-08 5:21 AM
in reply to: lifejustice

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you

Originally posted by lifejustice  I also believe that (as the article suggested) interval training and weight training is better for many people who are trying to "look their best". Ultimately, different exersize affects people in different ways and it would be foolish to say "one sport fits all"....triathlon included.

I agree. I didn't lose one ounce training for my 70.3. Since then, I've started to integrate a couple of combination aerobic/strength interval trainings into my overall workout week and I think that has been key to weight loss. It takes up training time though..

I only have an olympic on my tri-calendar for the fall..

2013-07-08 7:22 AM
in reply to: KateTri1

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
I dunno guys, this guy might have a point. Just look at this guy and tell me he doesn't look healthy. Not an ounce of fat.





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2013-07-08 7:39 AM
in reply to: KateTri1

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by KateTri1

Originally posted by lifejustice  I also believe that (as the article suggested) interval training and weight training is better for many people who are trying to "look their best". Ultimately, different exersize affects people in different ways and it would be foolish to say "one sport fits all"....triathlon included.

I agree. I didn't lose one ounce training for my 70.3. Since then, I've started to integrate a couple of combination aerobic/strength interval trainings into my overall workout week and I think that has been key to weight loss. It takes up training time though..

I only have an olympic on my tri-calendar for the fall..

How did your eating habits change when you started that integration?

2013-07-08 9:25 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by KateTri1

I agree. I didn't lose one ounce training for my 70.3. Since then, I've started to integrate a couple of combination aerobic/strength interval trainings into my overall workout week and I think that has been key to weight loss. It takes up training time though..

I only have an olympic on my tri-calendar for the fall..

How did your eating habits change when you started that integration?



x2 - it is very easy to overestimate caloric expenditures when training for long and ultra distance and therefore eat more calories than you are burning.

Shane
2013-07-08 11:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you


Edited by lifejustice 2013-07-08 11:11 AM


2013-07-08 12:47 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by brigby1
Originally posted by KateTri1 I agree. I didn't lose one ounce training for my 70.3. Since then, I've started to integrate a couple of combination aerobic/strength interval trainings into my overall workout week and I think that has been key to weight loss. It takes up training time though..

I only have an olympic on my tri-calendar for the fall..

How did your eating habits change when you started that integration?

x2 - it is very easy to overestimate caloric expenditures when training for long and ultra distance and therefore eat more calories than you are burning. Shane

They really haven't. I've pretty much eaten the same for a long time. I don't gain, I don't lose. I lost about 10 pounds when I first started doing triathlon, but gradually that weight came back. It just seems to make good sense to me that changing up one's workout routine throughout the year would some how take more energy and burn more fat. 

2013-07-08 12:59 PM
in reply to: KateTri1

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by KateTri1
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by brigby1
Originally posted by KateTri1 I agree. I didn't lose one ounce training for my 70.3. Since then, I've started to integrate a couple of combination aerobic/strength interval trainings into my overall workout week and I think that has been key to weight loss. It takes up training time though..

I only have an olympic on my tri-calendar for the fall..

How did your eating habits change when you started that integration?

x2 - it is very easy to overestimate caloric expenditures when training for long and ultra distance and therefore eat more calories than you are burning. Shane

They really haven't. I've pretty much eaten the same for a long time. I don't gain, I don't lose. I lost about 10 pounds when I first started doing triathlon, but gradually that weight came back. It just seems to make good sense to me that changing up one's workout routine throughout the year would some how take more energy and burn more fat. 

I'm with you Kate.  My body is definitely leaner when I do a more moderate amount of cardio plus weights versus a high level of cardio and less weight training.  My body looked and felt its least healthy training for HIM with marathon training a close second--and I also kept a very clean diet adding very little extra food to account for the extra calories burned.

My body looks and feels its best with sprint or oly training allowing for at least 2 sessions of strength training per week.

Having said that, I think this article is full of poo.  To say that a NO cardio plan is going to help someone shed body fat is ridiculous.

 

2013-07-08 1:17 PM
in reply to: noelle1230

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by noelle1230 

Having said that, I think this article is full of poo.  To say that a NO cardio plan is going to help someone shed body fat is ridiculous.

 

I agree with you on that. His gym analogy is ridiculous. I read once that the gym is usually filled with two types of people. Those who have been training for less than 3 months, and those who are gym rats. Most people join a gym, and don't keep at it.

I also can't believe that those in great shape doing strength training in the gym only do that. I think most people who stay fit for the long term, end up taking most of their cardio out of the gym. 

2013-07-08 1:17 PM
in reply to: noelle1230

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Subject: RE: Yahoo! Health says all that cardio is terrible for you
Originally posted by noelle1230
Originally posted by KateTri1
Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by brigby1
Originally posted by KateTri1 I agree. I didn't lose one ounce training for my 70.3. Since then, I've started to integrate a couple of combination aerobic/strength interval trainings into my overall workout week and I think that has been key to weight loss. It takes up training time though..

I only have an olympic on my tri-calendar for the fall..

How did your eating habits change when you started that integration?

x2 - it is very easy to overestimate caloric expenditures when training for long and ultra distance and therefore eat more calories than you are burning. Shane

They really haven't. I've pretty much eaten the same for a long time. I don't gain, I don't lose. I lost about 10 pounds when I first started doing triathlon, but gradually that weight came back. It just seems to make good sense to me that changing up one's workout routine throughout the year would some how take more energy and burn more fat. 

I'm with you Kate.  My body is definitely leaner when I do a more moderate amount of cardio plus weights versus a high level of cardio and less weight training.  My body looked and felt its least healthy training for HIM with marathon training a close second--and I also kept a very clean diet adding very little extra food to account for the extra calories burned.

My body looks and feels its best with sprint or oly training allowing for at least 2 sessions of strength training per week.

Having said that, I think this article is full of poo.  To say that a NO cardio plan is going to help someone shed body fat is ridiculous.

 

I agree with you and Kate on this based on my experience and my wife's experience. Her version of cardio is a very slow stair climb for 30 minutes a day as well as our morning 30 minute dog walk, other than that she just does weights and she got very lean for a bikini show. I lost a decent amount of weight doing the same, I just don't really like doing that.

I like to go fast on a bike, I like to be able to run. She never gets her heart rate up very high so running is very short and hard for her and biking not much better. So I choose to ride my bike and run but I also lift with her 3 times a week. Seems to work pretty well. 

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