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2013-07-23 8:39 AM
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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by pga_mike

Signed up for Savageman. Went to SavageCamp. Failed to finish the bike course.

Was the hardest cycling I have ever done x 10. Mile 18-43 are the hardest 25 miles in triathlon, maybe the hardest thing on a bicycle.

Name Location "Savage" Category Length Avg Grade Max Grade
Toothpick 0.5 mi 4th Savagery 0.25 mi 9% 16%
Westernport 18.5 mi Hors Savage 1.2 mi 12% 31%
Big Savage Mtn 23.4 mi 1st Savagery 2.4 mi 6% 21%
Elk Lick 30.0 mi 4th Savagery 2.8 mi 4% 7%
McAndrews Hill 32.8 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 9% 19%
Otto Lane 35.1 mi 2nd Savagery 0.6 mi 8% 17%
Killer Miller 38.1 mi Hors Savage 1.3 mi 8% 22%
Maynardier Ridge 43.8 mi 3rd Savagery 0.25 mi 12% 23%

http://www.winthefight.org/savageman/Bike_Course.html



Hey Mike,

Congratulations on making the first step to commit to such a great race. It is no doubt a very challenging race. Nothing the human spirit or body can't endure with proper training and a lot of HTF. I have complete 3 Savageman 70.0 and I have 3 bricks in the "Wall". After Ironman Lake Placid this weekend I will most likely sign up for my 4th Savageman.

How did you like the SavageCamp? I had a friend that help out with the run part. Anyway good luck and hope to see you there. Maybe we can get a BT group meet up. Looks like several BT'ers are planning this race. The only Race Report I have done on BT is linked. It's long so enjoy.


http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...





Edited by BrotherTri 2013-07-23 8:44 AM


2013-07-23 10:24 AM
in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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Master
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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by rockymtnhigh

I'm doing SavageMan too, and it has been weighing on my mind. I have lots of sustained climbs around here for training, but nothing thats 31%. Probably 15%-20% is the most grade I can find. I'm also still sitting on the road-bike/tri-bike fence. I'm thinking of flying out a day early so I can get in some practice runs on the Westernport Wall.

At least the swim is flat.


I live in South Central PA and the steapest climb I did was a 1/2 mile 22% x2 in combination with a hilly ride. If you are ridding 15%-20% hills you should be fine. I think the biggest keys to a well prepared Savageman bike is; gearing and doing lots of hills in training. If you can do 4000 ft of climbing in 30 miles of ridding you should be ok. That's just imo. Just FYI the "Wall" and several block before is the start of a 7 mile climb up Savage Mountain. So getting in some long steady grades will also be good training.
2013-07-23 12:18 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by rockymtnhigh I'm doing SavageMan too, and it has been weighing on my mind. I have lots of sustained climbs around here for training, but nothing thats 31%. Probably 15%-20% is the most grade I can find. I'm also still sitting on the road-bike/tri-bike fence. I'm thinking of flying out a day early so I can get in some practice runs on the Westernport Wall. At least the swim is flat.
I live in South Central PA and the steapest climb I did was a 1/2 mile 22% x2 in combination with a hilly ride. If you are ridding 15%-20% hills you should be fine. I think the biggest keys to a well prepared Savageman bike is; gearing and doing lots of hills in training. If you can do 4000 ft of climbing in 30 miles of ridding you should be ok. That's just imo. Just FYI the "Wall" and several block before is the start of a 7 mile climb up Savage Mountain. So getting in some long steady grades will also be good training.

I agree with James.  I have a client who is training for Savageman this year as only his second HIM.  The bike focus from now until race day is more on learning how to pace well for sustained climbs rather than just increasing max power.

Given appropriate gearing, most reasonably fit triathletes can clear the wall without too much trouble.  Most people who fall did so because their wheel went into a crack in the concrete, or because they were trying to ride it with a standard crankset and something like a 25T sprocket for their easiest gear.  In my personal experience, I raced Savageman before I had a power meter, but I can tell you that my RPE going up the wall wasn't anywhere near a maximal effort.

2013-07-23 3:07 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Regarding Tri vs Road Bike.

I am extremely confident descending. So much that I gained caught up with the "lead group" at SavageCamp after the 8 mile Savage River Descent into Westernport, and they had been at least 5 minutes ahead.

That descent is technical with a tribike, but very manageable. I hit 48 mph twice on the winding road.

Later, the descending turns get WAY sharper. I rode with Gary who is an awesome cyclist. He believes that this portion is faster with a road bike, and after taking my tri bike, I concur. The descents in this section are 10x more technical than anything else in triathlon, and more technical than any ride that I have done. The roadie will allow me to take more aggressive lines and countersteer far more effectively than on my Tri.

Savageman will be the first race that I have done without my tri bike, which I adore.
2013-07-25 7:53 AM
in reply to: fubar44


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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by fubar44

I was thinking about doing Savageman but after talking to many of my tri friends they talked me out of it. They all told me that it was harder than many of the full IMs that they had done. However they did say that it felt more rewarding after finishing. Good luck and most of all have fun with it!


A tad ironic that your sig is "What doesn't kill me makes me stronger" but then you have allowed yourself to be talked out of SavageMan because it's hard. SavageMan is a different kind of triathlon, one where 95% of the people are competing against the course rather than each other or the clock. And, the result seems to be a different kind of triathlon that people love. After all, in the post-race survey last year, a full, unanimous 100% of respondents said they would recommend the race to their friends. How many other races do you know that would get that kind of unanimous commendation. http://www.winthefight.org/savageman/Testimonials.html

You should not be scared off because it is hard. Yes, it's hard, but a very different type of hard than 5 hours at threshold kind of hard of a typical HIM. Come prepared and with enough gearing and you will have a most enjoyable and unique triathlon experience that you will remember forever. And, maybe a brick laid in the road forever with your name on it.

Oh, and there's the SavageMan 30.0 Olympic distance option as well.

Mike, if you don't post the turtle wrangler video, I won't post the shotgun reaction photo.....
2013-08-25 5:55 PM
in reply to: knyost

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Its getting closer.....Bwahahaha


Turns out I had an 11-25 on my roadie so I just swapped it out for an 11-28. Much better. I guess I should do some run training. I've been so focused on the bike that I haven't really thought about the run.


2013-08-25 6:04 PM
in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!

Originally posted by rockymtnhigh Its getting closer.....Bwahahaha Turns out I had an 11-25 on my roadie so I just swapped it out for an 11-28. Much better. I guess I should do some run training. I've been so focused on the bike that I haven't really thought about the run.

Practice running downhill.......chasing your bike. Laughing

2013-08-25 6:18 PM
in reply to: trishie

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Wow, that was one heck of a day for you. Sounds like BRUTAL is still an understatement of that course!
2013-08-25 6:31 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by rockymtnhigh Its getting closer.....Bwahahaha Turns out I had an 11-25 on my roadie so I just swapped it out for an 11-28. Much better. I guess I should do some run training. I've been so focused on the bike that I haven't really thought about the run.

Practice running downhill.......chasing your bike. Laughing

Oh stop - spat coffee on my keyboard.

2013-08-25 6:44 PM
in reply to: jobaxas

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
you're not 'over your head' you are in deep and it's getting deeper, Mike...

I'll be there with you, so if there is a BT meet/photo op-please let me know. All we have to do it survive, right?

Heck, I can outrun my bike when it's going backwards and I'm rested (meaning, if it's early in the race...)

2013-08-26 1:26 AM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by dtoce

I'll be there with you, so if there is a BT meet/photo op-please let me know. All we have to do it survive, right?

I think that you should all get together and do a before the race and after the race photo, just so we can see who survived


2013-08-26 5:27 AM
in reply to: StaceyK

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
I finally got out to do the bike course about 10 days ago. I'm glad I got to see some trouble areas on the descents. 3 of the turns were very technical and had me on the brakes hard. The hills are what they are, with the later ones really pushing you to just keep the pedals ticking forward.
I also ran the first loop of the run course to see where I'll be sucking wind. Tower road will claim it's share of people, but it is smoothed out now.
I'm looking forward to this race as I know it will be epic!
2013-08-26 7:36 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by rockymtnhigh Its getting closer.....Bwahahaha Turns out I had an 11-25 on my roadie so I just swapped it out for an 11-28. Much better. I guess I should do some run training. I've been so focused on the bike that I haven't really thought about the run.

Practice running downhill.......chasing your bike. Laughing




HA!

Thats what flip turns are for -- to learn to tuck and roll when you fall!
2013-08-26 7:51 AM
in reply to: rockymtnhigh

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
I have signed up for that as my first Oly distance race. The closer it gets, the scarier it gets. I did the Garrett county gran fondo a couple months ago over many of the same roads, and it kicked my butt. I am going to talk to the bike shop about replacing my 11-25 cassette with an 11-28 so I can hopefully have a little bit left in my legs for the run.
2013-08-31 1:44 PM
in reply to: happyscientist

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
My roadie now has 12-30. I wonder how I ever lived without compact and 12-30. Brilliant for climbing, and I can get a little "push" up to almost 30 mph. After that, why would I push?
2013-08-31 1:50 PM
in reply to: pga_mike

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by pga_mike

My roadie now has 12-30.


Smart move.


2013-09-01 7:55 AM
in reply to: colinphillips


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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Without proper gearing and training, the course is going to kick your butt. I gotten kicked good a few years ago and I rode my road bike with a compact and 28 gear combo. I should have had a smaller gear.
2013-09-01 12:57 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by reecealan This race is definitely on my bucket list. I had a decent run after the Branson 70.3 course so that gives me some confidence with regards to Savageman. It's tough to find good hills in Kansas though. The locals pointed this one out so repeats on this one will certainly help. It was something to see my speed slow to 6 mph on this one. I wish I had words of wisdom fo ryou Mike. Chicks like guys that "go for it" and the scars that go with it. That's all I've got....

From what I know of the courses, Branson has loads of volume for hills, but aren't necessarily that steep. Getting over to the Appalachians is different, the hills can have multiple sections on them like what you posted. Some of the backroads stuff I get to in Wisconsin can do that as well. A strava segment had me putting out 358 (almost 4.5 w/kg) to average just over 6 mph. Within that section I was breaking 400 at times just to go 4.5. Those are the kinds of thing you need to both gear for and train for really hard hills like with Savageman. Do various lengths of hard intervals to work on that and you'll be ok. Going straight through at a fairly steady effort on 20' intervals does help your fitness, but also be able to vary your power within that. Know how to attack rather hard and recover in the middle to late parts of that. Also note the intervals the others mentioned earlier, basically VO2 intervals of 4-5 minutes. Like them, I also found those quite helpful for the steeper hills.

. I did the race in 2010 and your description of going over 400w just to barely not fall over is apt. One of the challenges of the race is that the surface of the Westernport wall is very poor so it's pretty easy on that climb to fall if your tire gets stuck in a groove or rut. There is another challenge which is that the riders around you on the climbs often are swerving into and out of other people as many struggle to make the grade. When people are not quite able to maintain power on a steep grade they usually try to swerve left and right to attempt to decrease the acuity of the grade. It's a VERY fun race, but its pretty tough on the bike and the run.
2013-09-01 1:00 PM
in reply to: Billyk

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
Originally posted by BillykWithout proper gearing and training, the course is going to kick your butt. I gotten kicked good a few years ago and I rode my road bike with a compact and 28 gear combo. I should have had a smaller gear.
. Agree. Almost everyone NEEDS a compact on this course with a 28. I did this poorly when I did the race 3 years ago and road a standard. This was a mistake. COMPACT.
2013-09-01 4:32 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: I am in, over my head!
I had a 28T put on my road bike yesterday and tested it today.
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