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2013-08-01 12:56 PM
in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by DanielG

It's only an issue if the plane is stopped at half full of fuel. Otherwise, if it's voluntary, so be it.



So do you see it half fuel or half empty?


It's a dirty plane that somebody, probably me, is going to have to wash.

I see the damned glass the same way.



2013-08-01 12:57 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by Evergreen

I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. 

Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much.

Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it.

Look harder.  These men and women are everywhere.  It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it.  When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job.  When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment.  Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street.  One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. 

I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii.

Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own.

i'm sure we have all made bad decisions in our lifetimes - i know i sure have.  some people just don't get a happy ending.  the man i'm speaking about above was an engineer, had to quit work to take care of his dying mother as he was the only family member left, and then the economy collapsed. 

have the tiniest bit of compassion and be grateful for what you have.

I am very grateful for what I have, which has nothing to do with my capacity for compassion, and that might very well come into question when I suggest that this man did not "have to" quit his job, he chose to. My kids better dump me off in a municipal nursing home before they quit their job to take care of me while I die, only to be left homeless.

2013-08-01 1:13 PM
in reply to: mrbbrad

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by mrbbrad

Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by Evergreen

I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. 

Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much.

Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it.

Look harder.  These men and women are everywhere.  It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it.  When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job.  When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment.  Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street.  One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. 

I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii.

Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own.

i'm sure we have all made bad decisions in our lifetimes - i know i sure have.  some people just don't get a happy ending.  the man i'm speaking about above was an engineer, had to quit work to take care of his dying mother as he was the only family member left, and then the economy collapsed. 

have the tiniest bit of compassion and be grateful for what you have.

I am very grateful for what I have, which has nothing to do with my capacity for compassion, and that might very well come into question when I suggest that this man did not "have to" quit his job, he chose to. My kids better dump me off in a municipal nursing home before they quit their job to take care of me while I die, only to be left homeless.




The thing about this is that you, I, and pretty much everyone else we know have a safety net of family and friends that would catch us if we fell. Throw mental health issues into that mix and see what would happen without that support system.
2013-08-01 1:19 PM
in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by Evergreen

I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. 

Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much.

Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it.

Look harder.  These men and women are everywhere.  It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it.  When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job.  When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment.  Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street.  One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. 

I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii.

Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own.

i'm sure we have all made bad decisions in our lifetimes - i know i sure have.  some people just don't get a happy ending.  the man i'm speaking about above was an engineer, had to quit work to take care of his dying mother as he was the only family member left, and then the economy collapsed. 

have the tiniest bit of compassion and be grateful for what you have.

I am very grateful for what I have, which has nothing to do with my capacity for compassion, and that might very well come into question when I suggest that this man did not "have to" quit his job, he chose to. My kids better dump me off in a municipal nursing home before they quit their job to take care of me while I die, only to be left homeless.

The thing about this is that you, I, and pretty much everyone else we know have a safety net of family and friends that would catch us if we fell. Throw mental health issues into that mix and see what would happen without that support system.

Exactly! 

2013-08-01 1:22 PM
in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by Evergreen

I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. 

Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much.

Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it.

Look harder.  These men and women are everywhere.  It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it.  When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job.  When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment.  Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street.  One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. 

I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii.

Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own.

i'm sure we have all made bad decisions in our lifetimes - i know i sure have.  some people just don't get a happy ending.  the man i'm speaking about above was an engineer, had to quit work to take care of his dying mother as he was the only family member left, and then the economy collapsed. 

have the tiniest bit of compassion and be grateful for what you have.

I am very grateful for what I have, which has nothing to do with my capacity for compassion, and that might very well come into question when I suggest that this man did not "have to" quit his job, he chose to. My kids better dump me off in a municipal nursing home before they quit their job to take care of me while I die, only to be left homeless.

The thing about this is that you, I, and pretty much everyone else we know have a safety net of family and friends that would catch us if we fell. Throw mental health issues into that mix and see what would happen without that support system.

Yup, but apparently the guy in mehaner's story didn't which to me calls into question his decision to quite working to care for his mother. God bless him, that's a noble choice, but it was a choice. Every homeless person has a story, and they are responsible and accountable for it.

2013-08-01 1:39 PM
in reply to: mrbbrad

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by mrbbrad

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by Evergreen

I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. 

Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much.

Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it.

Look harder.  These men and women are everywhere.  It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it.  When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job.  When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment.  Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street.  One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. 

I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii.

Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own.

i'm sure we have all made bad decisions in our lifetimes - i know i sure have.  some people just don't get a happy ending.  the man i'm speaking about above was an engineer, had to quit work to take care of his dying mother as he was the only family member left, and then the economy collapsed. 

have the tiniest bit of compassion and be grateful for what you have.

I am very grateful for what I have, which has nothing to do with my capacity for compassion, and that might very well come into question when I suggest that this man did not "have to" quit his job, he chose to. My kids better dump me off in a municipal nursing home before they quit their job to take care of me while I die, only to be left homeless.

The thing about this is that you, I, and pretty much everyone else we know have a safety net of family and friends that would catch us if we fell. Throw mental health issues into that mix and see what would happen without that support system.

Yup, but apparently the guy in mehaner's story didn't which to me calls into question his decision to quite working to care for his mother. God bless him, that's a noble choice, but it was a choice. Every homeless person has a story, and they are responsible and accountable for it.



Yes, everyone bears personal responsibility for their situation. We also don't know 100% of anyone's story, either.

Living in the city has made me both more sympathetic and more callous to the situation. When I see families with kids waiting in line at the shelter on Spring Garden my heart breaks. How can a country of this much wealth allow that to continue? When I am trying to walk through Love Park in the very center of down town, just a couple blocks from Rittenhouse Square (and some of the most expensive property in Philly), I am disgusted by the "bums on the benches" and wish the city would just make them go away.

And here I sit, in my nice little brownstone by the Art Museum, safe, warm, and well-fed...


2013-08-01 2:07 PM
in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii

It isn't one size fits all. For every regular Joe that fell through the crack, I can put up a guy that chooses to live off the scraps handed to him. Scavenging is a very legitimate survival strategy... there are those among the population that have been doing it for a very long time.

A large percentage of homeless have substance abuse problems... that is a choice, and there is more than enough help available.

A large percentage indeed have mental health issues. That one is not an easy fix. Many end up homeless, or in the criminal "justice" system.That isn't a homeless problem, that is a mental health problem.

There are indeed hard luck cases, and chosen lifestyle cases alike. And sometimes the reality is some folks were just not dealt a winning genetic hand.

I do think compassion needs to be given to those that truly need it. ESPECIALLY in a country as wealthy as ours. But a boot to the rear is also due many... that suck the resources from those that can not fend for themselves.

If Hawaii wants to hand out tickets, and homeless want to accept them... then it sounds like a win win.

2013-08-01 2:08 PM
in reply to: mrbbrad

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by mehaner
Originally posted by mrbbrad
Originally posted by Evergreen

I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. 

Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much.

Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it.

Look harder.  These men and women are everywhere.  It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it.  When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job.  When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment.  Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street.  One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. 

I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii.

Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own.

i'm sure we have all made bad decisions in our lifetimes - i know i sure have.  some people just don't get a happy ending.  the man i'm speaking about above was an engineer, had to quit work to take care of his dying mother as he was the only family member left, and then the economy collapsed. 

have the tiniest bit of compassion and be grateful for what you have.

I am very grateful for what I have, which has nothing to do with my capacity for compassion, and that might very well come into question when I suggest that this man did not "have to" quit his job, he chose to. My kids better dump me off in a municipal nursing home before they quit their job to take care of me while I die, only to be left homeless.

The thing about this is that you, I, and pretty much everyone else we know have a safety net of family and friends that would catch us if we fell. Throw mental health issues into that mix and see what would happen without that support system.

Yup, but apparently the guy in mehaner's story didn't which to me calls into question his decision to quite working to care for his mother. God bless him, that's a noble choice, but it was a choice. Every homeless person has a story, and they are responsible and accountable for it.

Yes they do. And I am sure there are some sorry individuals who consciously decided to quit their day job just because they could to stand on a street corner and make $1000 a day in hand outs from people like you because it seemed easier. What percentage of the homeless do you think they account for?

 What about the guy who was raped by his dad and never got over it? Is he responsible and accountable for that or does he just need to HTFU? What about the Vets that fought for your freedom if you are in the US and cant seem to get over PTSD? Just who is responsible and accountable for them? What about the young girl who was raised by parents who lived like this and street life is her normal. What about the girl who has has been ignored and looked down on for so long she does not believe 'a better life' is for someone like her? Who is responsible and accountable for her?

2013-08-01 2:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by Evergreen

Yes they do. And I am sure there are some sorry individuals who consciously decided to quit their day job just because they could to stand on a street corner and make $1000 a day in hand outs from people like you because it seemed easier. What percentage of the homeless do you think they account for?

 What about the guy who was raped by his dad and never got over it? Is he responsible and accountable for that or does he just need to HTFU? What about the Vets that fought for your freedom if you are in the US and cant seem to get over PTSD? Just who is responsible and accountable for them? What about the young girl who was raised by parents who lived like this and street life is her normal. What about the girl who has has been ignored and looked down on for so long she does not believe 'a better life' is for someone like her? Who is responsible and accountable for her?

Are those rhetorical questions or do you really want answers? You won't like mine.



Edited by mrbbrad 2013-08-01 2:19 PM
2013-08-01 2:23 PM
in reply to: Evergreen

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by Evergreen

Yes they do. And I am sure there are some sorry individuals who consciously decided to quit their day job just because they could to stand on a street corner and make $1000 a day in hand outs from people like you because it seemed easier. What percentage of the homeless do you think they account for?

 What about the guy who was raped by his dad and never got over it? Is he responsible and accountable for that or does he just need to HTFU? What about the Vets that fought for your freedom if you are in the US and cant seem to get over PTSD? Just who is responsible and accountable for them? What about the young girl who was raised by parents who lived like this and street life is her normal. What about the girl who has has been ignored and looked down on for so long she does not believe 'a better life' is for someone like her? Who is responsible and accountable for her?

The real answer is, "they" are. Ultimately, the person is responsible for the person's life. Period.

How about the guy that has been to rehab 20 times? How about the Vet that has been to the VA hospital 50 times. How about the bipolar guy that refuses to take his meds once he leaves the hospital? How about the guy that turns down honest job offers so he can pan handle on the corner?

"Society" is not RESPONSIBLE for them. Society has a duty to help others. That is certain. And a society as wealthy as ours, can afford a lot of "help". But "responsible... no.

2013-08-02 11:41 AM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Just send all of the homeless to Detroit. Seventy eight thousand vacant houses, and the average cost of a house there is $6,800. Seems to me everyone wins.


2013-08-02 3:05 PM
in reply to: Evergreen

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii

As someone who has lived in Hawaii my entire life, I thought I'd chime in.

I will start by saying that I don't know what the answer is.  I can completely understand why this is being proposed though.

1.  Hawaii's #1 industry is BY FAR (and it's not even close) tourism. 
2.  There is a decent (not overwhelming though) homeless population in Waikiki.  If I was homeless...that's where I would pitch my tent.  The grass is always cut, there are public showers and bathrooms at the beach, and it's just generally clean there. 
3.  A good portion of the homeless population that inhabit the tourist areas do have jobs.  Or have kids that go to school.  They are generaly good people that just can't afford the cost of living in Hawaii or have fallen on hard times.  If you saw many of them at McDonalds, or their kids playing with your kids at school, you may not even know they are homeless.
4.  The other chunk of homeless are the mentally ill/unstable or drug addicts.  Crystal meth is HUGE in Hawaii and it destroy's lives.  However, these people generally don't inhabit the tourist areas.  They're more likely living under highway bridges or lower income areas where they have better access to attaining drugs...or dealing them.  You also have those suffering from schizophrenia and they just generally wander around...sometimes in tourist areas, and sometimes in the middle of nowhere.

I do actually think that many of the homeless in Hawaii could benefit from moving in with friends or family whether it be here in Hawaii or on the Mainland.  The job market is extremely tough here and cost of living is high.  Also, if you could get those who are on drugs a support system of friends, and provide them an environment where attaining drugs is much harder, I think that could benefit them as well. 

2013-08-02 3:17 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by Jason N

As someone who has lived in Hawaii my entire life, I thought I'd chime in.

I will start by saying that I don't know what the answer is.  I can completely understand why this is being proposed though.

1.  Hawaii's #1 industry is BY FAR (and it's not even close) tourism. 
2.  There is a decent (not overwhelming though) homeless population in Waikiki.  If I was homeless...that's where I would pitch my tent.  The grass is always cut, there are public showers and bathrooms at the beach, and it's just generally clean there. 
3.  A good portion of the homeless population that inhabit the tourist areas do have jobs.  Or have kids that go to school.  They are generaly good people that just can't afford the cost of living in Hawaii or have fallen on hard times.  If you saw many of them at McDonalds, or their kids playing with your kids at school, you may not even know they are homeless.
4.  The other chunk of homeless are the mentally ill/unstable or drug addicts.  Crystal meth is HUGE in Hawaii and it destroy's lives.  However, these people generally don't inhabit the tourist areas.  They're more likely living under highway bridges or lower income areas where they have better access to attaining drugs...or dealing them.  You also have those suffering from schizophrenia and they just generally wander around...sometimes in tourist areas, and sometimes in the middle of nowhere.

I do actually think that many of the homeless in Hawaii could benefit from moving in with friends or family whether it be here in Hawaii or on the Mainland.  The job market is extremely tough here and cost of living is high.  Also, if you could get those who are on drugs a support system of friends, and provide them an environment where attaining drugs is much harder, I think that could benefit them as well. 

Good post and I'm not trying to be a smart a$$- but I'm pretty sure there are no environments were obtaining drugs is not pretty easy, except maybe prison and I'm not too sure about that. I live in a town where I cannot buy a Starbucks but I know I could find Crystal Meth if I wanted some.

I also agree most homeless could benefit from a family support system but do not believe most have this, or if they did they may have burned those bridges.

2013-08-02 4:18 PM
in reply to: Evergreen

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii

No doubt you can find drugs anywhere.  But if you're staying with a family (off the streets) and you no longer have connections to the usual drug dealers and users...you may stand a better chance assuming that you actually "want" to get sober.

Again...I don't exactly know if this is the answer...but understand why it's being considered.

2013-08-02 4:52 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii

Good post Jason, and I too know I can walk into any town anywhere in the country and get drugs within an hour tops. A support system does not change that. Geographical changes is not a solution to that particular problem.

But I get the spirit of your post. And if their is a support system on the mainland, than that is the best place to be.... for many reasons.

2013-08-03 1:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by Jason N

As someone who has lived in Hawaii my entire life, I thought I'd chime in.

I will start by saying that I don't know what the answer is.  I can completely understand why this is being proposed though.

1.  Hawaii's #1 industry is BY FAR (and it's not even close) tourism. 
2.  There is a decent (not overwhelming though) homeless population in Waikiki.  If I was homeless...that's where I would pitch my tent.  The grass is always cut, there are public showers and bathrooms at the beach, and it's just generally clean there. 
3.  A good portion of the homeless population that inhabit the tourist areas do have jobs.  Or have kids that go to school.  They are generaly good people that just can't afford the cost of living in Hawaii or have fallen on hard times.  If you saw many of them at McDonalds, or their kids playing with your kids at school, you may not even know they are homeless.
4.  The other chunk of homeless are the mentally ill/unstable or drug addicts.  Crystal meth is HUGE in Hawaii and it destroy's lives.  However, these people generally don't inhabit the tourist areas.  They're more likely living under highway bridges or lower income areas where they have better access to attaining drugs...or dealing them.  You also have those suffering from schizophrenia and they just generally wander around...sometimes in tourist areas, and sometimes in the middle of nowhere.

I do actually think that many of the homeless in Hawaii could benefit from moving in with friends or family whether it be here in Hawaii or on the Mainland.  The job market is extremely tough here and cost of living is high.  Also, if you could get those who are on drugs a support system of friends, and provide them an environment where attaining drugs is much harder, I think that could benefit them as well. 

Something that's getting overlooked on this entire thread, though, is that many (most?) of the homeless in Hawaii are native Hawaiians.  I don't live there but my brother did for about 5 years so I've seen a lot of it on Oahu at least.

Even though it's voluntary, this will be just seen as another push to take more of the islands away from them.  I'm actually surprised the politicians are even talking about it.

 

Maybe we can just quarantine all the undesirables on Molokai... it worked before, right?



Edited by spudone 2013-08-03 1:46 AM


2013-08-03 4:53 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Homelessness is just another issue that gov. cannot solve and has no business trying to.
2013-08-03 7:21 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
Originally posted by spudone
Originally posted by Jason N

As someone who has lived in Hawaii my entire life, I thought I'd chime in.

I will start by saying that I don't know what the answer is.  I can completely understand why this is being proposed though.

1.  Hawaii's #1 industry is BY FAR (and it's not even close) tourism. 
2.  There is a decent (not overwhelming though) homeless population in Waikiki.  If I was homeless...that's where I would pitch my tent.  The grass is always cut, there are public showers and bathrooms at the beach, and it's just generally clean there. 
3.  A good portion of the homeless population that inhabit the tourist areas do have jobs.  Or have kids that go to school.  They are generaly good people that just can't afford the cost of living in Hawaii or have fallen on hard times.  If you saw many of them at McDonalds, or their kids playing with your kids at school, you may not even know they are homeless.
4.  The other chunk of homeless are the mentally ill/unstable or drug addicts.  Crystal meth is HUGE in Hawaii and it destroy's lives.  However, these people generally don't inhabit the tourist areas.  They're more likely living under highway bridges or lower income areas where they have better access to attaining drugs...or dealing them.  You also have those suffering from schizophrenia and they just generally wander around...sometimes in tourist areas, and sometimes in the middle of nowhere.

I do actually think that many of the homeless in Hawaii could benefit from moving in with friends or family whether it be here in Hawaii or on the Mainland.  The job market is extremely tough here and cost of living is high.  Also, if you could get those who are on drugs a support system of friends, and provide them an environment where attaining drugs is much harder, I think that could benefit them as well. 

Something that's getting overlooked on this entire thread, though, is that many (most?) of the homeless in Hawaii are native Hawaiians.  I don't live there but my brother did for about 5 years so I've seen a lot of it on Oahu at least.

Even though it's voluntary, this will be just seen as another push to take more of the islands away from them.  I'm actually surprised the politicians are even talking about it.

 

Maybe we can just quarantine all the undesirables on Molokai... it worked before, right?

It's true that there is a good portion of homeless that are Native Hawaiians in relation to how many Native Hawaiians there are in general, but the overall total is much less than 50%...maybe even less than 10%.  But given that one of the criteria is that you need to have family wherever they are sending you, then many of them wouldn't qualify for this program.  That said...even if they did have a relative or friend on the mainland, I highly doubt they would dare send a Native Hawaiian away. 

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