Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2013-07-31 4:04 PM |
Veteran 622 Roll Tide!! | Subject: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii If I was going to be homeless I guess Hawaii would pretty much be the place to do it. Evidently a new program is offering the homeless a one way plane ticket to the mainland. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/25/homeless-in-hawaii-offere_n_658572.html And they are not the first to do this. Several cities/states have similar programs. One of them was originally called 'Clean Sweep' So what do you think about this BT? Doesn't really seem like a solution to me, just shuffling people around. I work (volunteer) with the homeless some, and I don't necessarily have a solution to the problem of homelessness myself except I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. |
|
2013-07-31 4:08 PM in reply to: Evergreen |
Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii It's only an issue if the plane is stopped at half full of fuel. Otherwise, if it's voluntary, so be it. |
2013-07-31 4:45 PM in reply to: #4818118 |
Extreme Veteran 787 The Woodlands/Magnolia, TX. | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii I'd like to see more of this type of creative thinking by local governments. |
2013-07-31 5:01 PM in reply to: Evergreen |
Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Maybe a one for one for some of the illegals from the Southern border for someone looking for work! |
2013-08-01 7:00 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Elite 4547 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Didn't Guliani do something like this back when he was mayor of NYC? |
2013-08-01 7:11 AM in reply to: Evergreen |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by Evergreen If I was going to be homeless I guess Hawaii would pretty much be the place to do it. Evidently a new program is offering the homeless a one way plane ticket to the mainland. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/25/homeless-in-hawaii-offere_n_658572.html And they are not the first to do this. Several cities/states have similar programs. One of them was originally called 'Clean Sweep' So what do you think about this BT? Doesn't really seem like a solution to me, just shuffling people around. I work (volunteer) with the homeless some, and I don't necessarily have a solution to the problem of homelessness myself except I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. I agree - this MAY reduce the homeless population in Hawaii but it just shuffles them to wherever you drop them. Maybe in theory they are homeless because they came to Hawaii, had tragedy/job loss/something that caused them to be homeless but no support system, and if you can get them back to their families they can get back on their feet? If not, though, then this does nothing, really. |
|
2013-08-01 8:56 AM in reply to: Evergreen |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. |
2013-08-01 9:02 AM in reply to: mrbbrad |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Look harder. These men and women are everywhere. It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it. When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job. When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment. Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street. One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. |
2013-08-01 9:11 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by DanielG It's only an issue if the plane is stopped at half full of fuel. Otherwise, if it's voluntary, so be it. So do you see it half fuel or half empty? |
2013-08-01 9:18 AM in reply to: mehaner |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Look harder. These men and women are everywhere. It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it. When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job. When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment. Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street. One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. A confounding factor is that a significant number of the homeless suffer from mental illness, particularly schizophrenia and manic depression. Family support is either fractured or non-existent. Moving them from point A to point B won't solve the problem. |
2013-08-01 9:19 AM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii The quote: "We need to find out what these people need to end their homelessness, not just put them in a place where people can't see them," Uhhhh, just because they are no longer seen in THEIR state/city/town/etc. doesn't mean they are not seen by people at the new location. Homeless people in multiple towns/cities/states is a big issue, and hopefully someone can provide a reasonable solution. Job creation is one thing, but there are those that expect a handout and just aren't willing to work anyways which is even a bigger problem. |
|
2013-08-01 9:19 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Primarily a mental health issue, don't you think? I hope you're not saying that most people are homeless because they are lazy. Living in a major urban area I see quite a few homeless people, and in my non-medical opinion for 99% of them it's not that they don't WANT to be part of society, it's that due to mental health issues they CAN'T function in society. Edited by BrianRunsPhilly 2013-08-01 9:21 AM |
2013-08-01 9:34 AM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 622 Roll Tide!! | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Look harder. These men and women are everywhere. It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it. When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job. When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment. Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street. One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. It is not always as easy as it would seem for one to move off the street. The reasons above are valid and add to this the fact that a lot of the people on the streets (not all) are just not mentally/emotionally stable to 'do' normal life, hold a job etc. Some of this was self inflected through drugs etc, but not all, and even if it was what do we do, say you made the wrong choice and write these people off? Some have suffered unimaginable abuse, some were just born messed up. I don't think that means as a society we need to do what Hitler wold have done and just ship the 'less desirables'- whoever that might be- off, so we the superior don't have to be bothered with them. If anyone is interested, an excellent book that looks at homelessness is Under the Overpass. I was cutting a homeless guys hair a few months ago and he was telling me he and his wife lived in a tent and I was like what do you do when it gets cold and he said well, we have blankets, we make it OK. And I could tell it really was just a normal way of life for him. But I was thinking, what about when we have torrential downpours of rain? And all those warm blankets get soaked, along with everything else you own? And there is no real bathroom, or regular shower, or doors to lock at night... Who chooses to live like that? I don't know, but I do know it starts to feel normal for some after a while, and when living like that, with your hand out always being in need starts to feel normal, I think you loose something of yourself no matter who you were or what your reasons were when you started out. Edited by Evergreen 2013-08-01 9:38 AM |
2013-08-01 10:12 AM in reply to: kcarroll |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by kcarroll Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Look harder. These men and women are everywhere. It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it. When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job. When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment. Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street. One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. A confounding factor is that a significant number of the homeless suffer from mental illness, particularly schizophrenia and manic depression. Family support is either fractured or non-existent. Moving them from point A to point B won't solve the problem. Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. |
2013-08-01 10:35 AM in reply to: powerman |
Master 2167 Livonia, MI | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. |
2013-08-01 11:14 AM in reply to: noelle1230 |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. Not sustainable though. Only works until it catches on and the receiving states return the favor. Assuming NJ has approximately the same numbers (and I don't know if that is true) we could even things up pretty quickly. |
|
2013-08-01 11:19 AM in reply to: noelle1230 |
Elite 4547 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. Is it possible that this move could be helping the Hawaiian homeless out? Is the state or are the states they're flying them to have more job opportunities? I really don't know. If so, sounds like a win-win. |
2013-08-01 11:23 AM in reply to: kcarroll |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by kcarroll Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. Not sustainable though. Only works until it catches on and the receiving states return the favor. Assuming NJ has approximately the same numbers (and I don't know if that is true) we could even things up pretty quickly. So eventually all homeless people will be in the air somewhere.......problem solved, eh? |
2013-08-01 11:26 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by kcarroll Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. Not sustainable though. Only works until it catches on and the receiving states return the favor. Assuming NJ has approximately the same numbers (and I don't know if that is true) we could even things up pretty quickly. So eventually all homeless people will be in the air somewhere.......problem solved, eh? Soylent Green. |
2013-08-01 11:28 AM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Soylent Green. Originally posted by kcarroll Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. Not sustainable though. Only works until it catches on and the receiving states return the favor. Assuming NJ has approximately the same numbers (and I don't know if that is true) we could even things up pretty quickly. So eventually all homeless people will be in the air somewhere.......problem solved, eh? Do you have any idea which would taste better? |
2013-08-01 11:28 AM in reply to: kcarroll |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by kcarroll Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. Not sustainable though. Only works until it catches on and the receiving states return the favor. Assuming NJ has approximately the same numbers (and I don't know if that is true) we could even things up pretty quickly. I think you are forgetting Hawaii is an island in the Pacific. Perhaps some are stranded and want to go back to the mainland. I doubt too many places will send folks over to Hawaii. Bus tickets are much cheaper. |
|
2013-08-01 11:30 AM in reply to: mehaner |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Look harder. These men and women are everywhere. It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it. When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job. When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment. Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street. One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii. Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own. |
2013-08-01 11:31 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 4482 NJ | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by kcarroll Originally posted by noelle1230 Originally posted by powerman Actually, it solves the problem for Hawaii. They are not trying to get homeless off the streets or America... they are trying to get the homeless off the streets of Hawaii. A plane ticket is probably cheaper than social services. Not saying I agree or disagree.... just saying, it does indeed solve a problem. My thoughts exactly. They're not doing the homeless a favor, they're doing the state and it's non-homeless citizens a favor. Not sustainable though. Only works until it catches on and the receiving states return the favor. Assuming NJ has approximately the same numbers (and I don't know if that is true) we could even things up pretty quickly. So eventually all homeless people will be in the air somewhere.......problem solved, eh? That's going to tie up a lot of airspace. Could be good for the airlines though. |
2013-08-01 11:33 AM in reply to: mrbbrad |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Look harder. These men and women are everywhere. It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it. When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job. When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment. Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street. One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very coldwinter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii. Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own. Lots of abuse in shelters.....most homeless people who find a community of others living on the street feel much safer within that community. |
2013-08-01 12:04 PM in reply to: mrbbrad |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Moving the Homeless Out of Hawaii Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by mehaner Originally posted by mrbbrad Originally posted by Evergreen I believe we should treat all people with dignity so they will realize they have value. Agree that all people should be treated with dignity, but not so that they can realize their value. Do it because it's the right thing to do. True self worth comes from within. Being a productive member of society can help with that; sitting on a street corner covered in filth asking me for money out of my pocket, not so much. Heard a thought provoking (for me) quote once but cannot find the source. To paraphrase; no man is truly in need who drinks, smokes, or keep a pet. I cannot believe that in 2013, in the western world, any person has to live "on the street" who truly does not want to and is willing to do something about it. Look harder. These men and women are everywhere. It takes a tremendous support system and amount of resources to get out of that situation once you are in it. When you don't have an address, it's hard to get a job. When you don't have a job, it's hard to get an apartment. Recently it took my former church an incredible amount of time, connections, people willing to work and sacrifice, and after two years they got ONE MAN off the street. One man who accepted responsibility for why he was on the street and desperately wanted to change and worked very hard himself at it. I suppose I should have been more specific about what I mean. I'm not talking about permanent residency vs homelessness. I'm talking about people who live, literally, on the street. In Philadelphia they have to take them, often by force, and get them into shelters on very cold winter nights. Shelters are there, resources are available. Homelessness does not have to equal sleeping under the over pass, or in a park in Hawaii. Sometimes, being willing to do something about your own situation means things liked don't drop out of high school, don't run away from home, don't use drugs, don't go off your meds. Again, I have a very hard time with the idea that anyone is literally living on the street through no fault of their own. i'm sure we have all made bad decisions in our lifetimes - i know i sure have. some people just don't get a happy ending. the man i'm speaking about above was an engineer, had to quit work to take care of his dying mother as he was the only family member left, and then the economy collapsed. have the tiniest bit of compassion and be grateful for what you have. |
|
Giving Money to Homeless Pages: 1 2 3 4 | |||
I wanna move, I need to move!! Pages: 1 2 |
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|