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2013-08-14 3:39 AM

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Subject: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
When I first considered this, I thought I want to finish under X hrs. Now I've been watching the recap videos on Ironman.com and I think a finish at 16:59 would be amazing too. Any thoughts?


2013-08-14 4:03 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
I'd encourage you to set three goals: The first is just to finish. The second is the most likely based on your training and allowing for a few mistakes and some unexpected issues. The last is your stretch goal - the time you could achieve if the planets align and everything goes perfectly. Go into the race with all three in mind.
2013-08-14 5:19 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Have you signed up for a race yet?

I've posted about this before in the IM forum (it's been a couple years). Why are you interested in the race and what really will define a "good" race day for you? Be honest with yourself, and if you really believe a 12:00 finish is what you want, recognize that as your goal and train for it. The alternative is to pretend that isn't *REALLY* your goal and then you're trying to figure out why "just finishing" doesn't feel like you expected it to make you feel. (You have the added bonus that your friends and family won't understand your frustration when you hit your stated goal but missed that unstated one.)

We are often so afraid of failure that we won't admit what our true goals are. Not everything in life happens according to our plan and sometimes, things beyond our control force us to change our goals and that includes dropping one that we've established (which of us as 10-year-olds wanted to be a fireman or own a Corvette?)
2013-08-14 6:04 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Originally posted by TriMyBest

I'd encourage you to set three goals: The first is just to finish. The second is the most likely based on your training and allowing for a few mistakes and some unexpected issues. The last is your stretch goal - the time you could achieve if the planets align and everything goes perfectly. Go into the race with all three in mind.



X2.......especially if.it's your first.


I just finished IMLP as my first and learned that you need to have a plan b and c and d if things don't work out as planned. As don said above I knew if the stars aligned I could do a 13:30, on a average day 14-15 but after a mechanical failure that had me at a standstill for a combines 40 min on the bike and as a result of this failure I rode 15 miles up.hills going slower than normal I lost an hour on the bike and burnt my legs even more due to a left pedal issue therefore my run was affected and then after seeing people being pulled from.the course at mile s 15-21 I had to change my plan to be certain I finished so I probably self.inflicted another 30 min by slowing way down.


So my point is if its your first follow Dons advice and roll with the punches if you have an unlucky day.

Good.luck.
2013-08-14 7:25 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
^ As above, go in with goals, but understand that even for the quickest guys 140.6 miles is a LONG day with plenty of opportunity for things to throw your plans out the window.

The first shot at that distance, finishing should be everyone's #1 goal. Then start thinking about how to finish faster without jeopardizing goal #1.

I know at my full distance attempt the party at 16-17hours was way more awesome than the finish I got at 12 and some change
2013-08-14 9:11 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM

My thoughts; a finish at 16:59 would suck for me. Sure, it would be a finish and for my first the primary goal was to finish, but at 16:59 that would have meant some things went terribly wrong for me.

 

As others have stated, I had tiered goals:

1. Finish
2. Finish before dark
3. Finish sub 12:00
4. 4 hours or better on the run

I got two out of three; sun was up at 12:22:37.



2013-08-14 9:57 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Agreed with the multiple goals approach. I just finished my first (IMLP) and had time goals as well as overall experience goals.

#1 Goal: Enjoy the day ... take it all in so I'd have enough information to truly evaluate the long-course race. I wasn't going to hammer this or even consider my AG placement. I intended to just keep my effort consistent. I gave myself permission to really grind the final 10k of the run if I had anything left (I didn't).

I went in thinking I'd break 12 if everything went perfectly.
I thought a realistic prediction would be somewhere between 12:30:00 and 13:00:00.
I didn't manage my electrolytes well and ended up not having the run I should have had, finishing in 13:17:00

But I finished with a smile on my face absolutely hooked by the distance. Now it's time to get serious about continued training and see what I can do with the distance over the next 5 years. I'm thankful I didn't go in with an absolute time goal. I think not having that locked in allowed me to really take in the full experience of the day.
2013-08-14 9:58 AM
in reply to: BernardDogs

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
My main goal was to "just" finish, but after my training I had time "estimates"/ goals for each leg (I was 7 min faster than my predicted swim, very close the bike estimate, and about an hour off for the run )
2013-08-14 10:05 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
It's your first. Have the three goals mentioned above and jus to with it. A frie d wrote something in the USAT mag that was the best race quote I've seen, paraphrasing, it's not about the time it takes to get from the start to the finish, it's about the time you had in between.
2013-08-14 10:12 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM

I'm doing Tahoe for my first IM.  I started with a goal of running the entire marathon.  I got so busy with my kids triathlon ambitions that I decided on a run/walk and a goal time.  I injured my knee and my entire program got derailed.  At this point.......the only thing that won't be ugly about my day will be the course.  I considered bagging the race but the truth is, I'll go out there and get this over with if I have to walk the entire damn run course. 

I'm not doing another one ever.....I hate the long training.  The only thing I'd have to add to want to run my bike into oncoming traffic after a 3 or 4 hour ride is country music.

2013-08-14 10:55 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
My last marathon my goal at mile 2 became to get to 5k mark. Then the Mile 6 mark. Then mile 12. Then Mile 17. It wasn't until about mile 21 I was like wow I am going to finish a marathon today.



2013-08-14 11:26 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Originally posted by leftrunner

When I first considered this, I thought I want to finish under X hrs. Now I've been watching the recap videos on Ironman.com and I think a finish at 16:59 would be amazing too. Any thoughts?


Train for your goal and race for the finish.

It's your first IM, so if you get out there and all is going well and you cross the mile 22 marker at 6pm, then yes by all means make the effort for a sub-12 finish. If you feel like sh*t at mile 70 of the bike, I would attempt to `just finish.' Don't get greedy, just take what the day gives you.
2013-08-14 11:36 AM
in reply to: mr2tony

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Wow. Great advice, everyone. I signed up for IMLP. I was at the finish at IMNZ when Bevan Docherty set the course record and was pumped. Then I saw the glow light walkers and they looked just as thrilled as the winner.

Right now, 49 1/2 weeks out, my 3 goals are:

1. Finish
2. Sub 12:30
3. Sub 11:30

I'm going to need a lot of time in the saddle and on hills. Thanks again for the advice.
2013-08-14 11:54 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Sorry for another "what they said" post, but all advice has been spot on. Three goals are a good way to plan:
Goal 1: Just finish. The one you tell everyone.
Goal 2: Target time based on your training. The one you tell other Triathletes.
Goal 3: Secret, planets have aligned, goal.

For my first, goal 1 was obvious. My family came down with me and I sure as hell didn't want to not finish with my kids watching/waiting for me. Goal 2 was 15:00 based on work getting in the way of my training and just guestimating by how much effort I had been putting in the previous months. Secret goal 3 was 14:00, I had no frame of reference to pick that, but had that in my mind as a good first time number. In the end I finished 12:20, so I was elated and now delusional (imagine what I could do if I trained harder!!). Don't make secret goal 3 something ridiculous, like sub-11 or Kona Qual'd for a first. You'll likely not achieve it and despite telling yourself it wasn't a real goal, you will have it somewhere in your mind that you didn't achieve that goal and it will cloud your acomplishment.

Above all, don't overthink it. Just try to enjoy the day!
2013-08-14 4:11 PM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM

I'll be doing my first IM in less than 9 weeks.  I'll be out there just to finish.  Maybe in less than 12 hours...maybe 14+ hours.  All I know is that I plan to just plug along and try to get to the finish line.  Pace myself smartly, and let the chips fall where they may.  I seriously doubt I'll cross the finish line and think to myself that if I set a more aggressive goal that I could have gone 15-30 minutes faster.  Most IM RRs I've read it's likely the opposite.  That if they set a goal that was less aggressive, they could have paced it better and finished 15-30 minutes faster avoiding the blow up.

So that's my goal...to finish...and just see what happens.

2013-08-14 4:47 PM
in reply to: Jason N


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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
I'm tackling IM Louisville as my first full in 11 days. Initially I wanted to wait until 2014 or 2015 to try the full distance but have several friends doing IML as their first this year and they talked me into it.

For me, goal #1 is to finish before midnight. I also have two different time goals, one that is very attainable provided nothing catastrophic happens (major mechanical or physical injury) and a stretch time goal if everything aligns and I race smart. I don't have much to base it on as I completed my first 70.3 earlier this year and that didn't go as planned as far as time. I went into the HIM under-trained on the bike and did not have a good nutrition plan. I've worked hard on the bike the past few months and think I have a good nutrition plan. Weather will certainly be a factor as well, as summer has been relatively mild compared to most years down south but who knows what race day will bring. I've also done most of my training in the early morning hours as I've tried to minimize the impact on my family as much as possible. I know race day will be long and hard. I think I know what I am capable of doing but I'll find out for sure very soon.


2013-08-14 5:00 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Originally posted by TriMyBest

I'd encourage you to set three goals: The first is just to finish. The second is the most likely based on your training and allowing for a few mistakes and some unexpected issues. The last is your stretch goal - the time you could achieve if the planets align and everything goes perfectly. Go into the race with all three in mind.


This is great advice. I'm in the middle of training for my first IM (IMAZ) and several folks have told me not to set a goal finish time. Sorry, that's just not going to happen. I'm too competitive and have put too much effort into this training to not want to beat a certain time.

Being new to the sport, I have realized that you see your biggest gains right off the bat. I noticed that at the olympic I did last weekend so I'm going to wait till October to determine a goal time and stretch goal time.
2013-08-14 6:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
I just finished my first IM and my goal was to enjoy the day and finish before 11pm. Because I wasn't focused on "racing" I was totally able to soak up the experience and enjoy it. It was seriously part of my race plan to be chrissy wellington and SMILE as much as possible. Well...except the final 8 miles of the run. I was just dreaming of being done at that point. I finished in 15 hours and am happy. Now my next one I will be focused more on time...

Edited by akrenik 2013-08-14 6:28 PM
2013-08-27 10:20 AM
in reply to: mr2tony


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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Originally posted by mr2tony

Originally posted by leftrunner

When I first considered this, I thought I want to finish under X hrs. Now I've been watching the recap videos on Ironman.com and I think a finish at 16:59 would be amazing too. Any thoughts?


Train for your goal and race for the finish.

It's your first IM, so if you get out there and all is going well and you cross the mile 22 marker at 6pm, then yes by all means make the effort for a sub-12 finish. If you feel like sh*t at mile 70 of the bike, I would attempt to `just finish.' Don't get greedy, just take what the day gives you.


Exactly this. I completed my first IM (Louisville) this weekend. First HIM was in May this year (6:31). I was under-trained on the bike, weather sucked (cold/rain) and hadn't worked on nutrition enough. Decided in early June to try to ramp up for IMLou. Followed a coach's plan as closely as I could and ramped back a few workouts due to other commitments and listened to my body when I was tired. I went into Sunday with 3 goals - 1) finish; 2) finish sub-14; 3) if everything went well finish sub-13.

Race day came and I felt pretty relaxed. I made a plan with my coach to go by HR on the bike and run. Had a good swim and better than expected bike. Started the run with total race time of 7:46. Did exactly what I wanted on the run. It is a two-loop run and at the turn, I knew I had a legit shot at sub-12. Held my pace to mile 20, then mile 22. Started working the math and decided to skip last two aid stations. Glanced at my watch with about 200-300 yds to go and saw 11:55. Looked behind me and saw no one close, let the two guys in front gain a little distance and took the chute basically solo. Official time of 11:57:17. The stars aligned for me on race day. I can honestly say, I would have been pretty happy sub-13. To go sub-12 was a complete surprise to me.
2013-08-27 12:00 PM
in reply to: jkintn

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
I have three goals for my first IM next year.

A Goal- 13:55 or less, this is one minute faster then Tara Costa from the Biggest Loser finished Kona. No Idea why I want this time as my goal but I am a fan of hers and the show and I think it would be cool if I could beat her time. Not sure how Kona compares to IMMT but its what I am shooting for or atleast hope so.

B Goal- sub 15hours

C Goal- 16:59:59

I dont really care where I finish as long as I do but I think for training purposes, if I have a time goal I might be more inclined to train for that and let the chips fall where they may.
2013-08-27 12:35 PM
in reply to: dmbfan4life20

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
PR or ER


Serious question now, has anyone walked into one with two goals:

A. Best case scenario time goal
B. Accepted "things can go wrong" time goal

And if not A or B just DNF it?

I'm sure plenty will think that's ridiculous but I could see a competitive sort just tossing in the towel if the sh*& really hit the fan and I wouldn't blame them.


2013-08-27 12:43 PM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
I dug this up from the archives....originally posted during my 2008 IMKY training.



January

"Last year I finsished IMKY in just under 16 hrs. I think this year I'm gonna shoot for sub-14 hrs this year! Whoohoo, can't wait to start training!"

March

"Gee 2 hrs is a lot of time to expect to take off my finish time...besides, if I do sub-14 this year, what will I have to shoot for next year. OK, I'll shoot for sub-15 hrs this year!"

June

"Dang, I forgot just how long 112 miles is and just how fatigued I can become and still not pass out! My goal should really just be anything faster than last year....so sub 15:58 is my goal!"

July

"Damn it's hot! Holey smokes! How the heck does anyone run a marathon in this heat! Hmmm, I'm a year older this year and went up to the 45 year old bracket....so technically, I don't have to beat 15:58 to beat last years time.....hmmm

August Goal: Start the ironman on August 31 and finish before September rolls around!

2013-08-27 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
Originally posted by mikerunkle

Sorry for another "what they said" post, but all advice has been spot on. Three goals are a good way to plan:
Goal 1: Just finish. The one you tell everyone.
Goal 2: Target time based on your training. The one you tell other Triathletes.
Goal 3: Secret, planets have aligned, goal.

  • ..

  • Above all, don't overthink it. Just try to enjoy the day!



    exactly !

    Edited by metafizx 2013-08-27 12:59 PM
    2013-08-27 1:09 PM
    in reply to: mikerunkle

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    Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
    Originally posted by mikerunkle

    Sorry for another "what they said" post, but all advice has been spot on. Three goals are a good way to plan:
    Goal 1: Just finish. The one you tell everyone.
    Goal 2: Target time based on your training. The one you tell other Triathletes.
    Goal 3: Secret, planets have aligned, goal.



    I'm going to disagree with the three goals philosophy. I've done 9 IMs, some with a lot of training, some with not really enough, and something like 8 half-IMs and six or seven marathons so I'll claim a bit of experience in goal setting.

    The problem with three goals is that it is very difficult to feel anything other than disappointment with yourself unless you achieve goal #3 your secret goal. You get to the finish line, you're supposed to be elated, your spouse and family and friends are happy, amazed, and proud of you, and you're smiling too, but you know that you didn't achieve goal #3. And you won't achieve #3 if it's one of those unrealistic perfect day tailwind all the way types of goal.

    Why put yourself through that? Be honest with yourself, and set a realistic time goal based on your training and be done with it. Don't go into the race with a "just finish" attitude unless 16:59 is actually a realistic goal based on your training and fitness. Tell people what your goal is, don't sandbag with a "happy to just finish" unless that's actually your goal. Be realistic, and recognize there are no miracles on race day, not in IM. If you say blast the bike leg far faster than your training said you should ride, then you will certainly be among the many walking the run talking about how fast your bike was, or telling people after the race you overcooked the bike and your run suffered.

    Me, I try to not set time goals. I set execution goals: "draft well on the swim, don't take breaks to sight", and "150 watts on the bike on the flats, don't exceed 250 on the hills, stay aero stay aero stay aero!" and "minimize walking the aid stations on the run, stay at consistent 9 min pace". If I hit the execution goals, then I'm happy with my race and what the clock says at the end. But I'm still human, and I do try to calculate what the resulting time is going to be based on what I think is realistic.

    My most memorial moment in triathlon is finishing IMC in 12:59:47 when I was hoping for 13 hours and thought I'd missed it. Long race report if you're interested: http://brucemorgan.blogs.com/afc/2009/09/ironman-canada-2009-race-r...
    2013-08-27 1:19 PM
    in reply to: thebigb

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    Subject: RE: Time Goal vs. Just Finish first IM
    Originally posted by thebigb

    PR or ER


    Serious question now, has anyone walked into one with two goals:

    A. Best case scenario time goal
    B. Accepted "things can go wrong" time goal

    And if not A or B just DNF it?

    I'm sure plenty will think that's ridiculous but I could see a competitive sort just tossing in the towel if the sh*& really hit the fan and I wouldn't blame them.



    I'm sure the Pros do. I can imagine myself having those goals if/when I manage to be competitive, especially in an early season race. Taking a DNF would significantly reduce recovery time meaning training for the next race can start sooner.
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