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2013-08-18 9:17 AM

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Subject: Cheaters at local race
Last week at a local sprint race a buddy of mine passed three guys near the lead. All three drafting each other, to the point where he even noticed them changing lead position amongst themselves. These guys are the types that where banana hammocks, and strut around after the race talking about how fast they are. I am decent on the bike, but my buddy is gifted enough to still pass them. My question is what is the point. It's a small local race a lot of us do in between bigger races, for fun. To me these are the people that ruin the small local races. I did happen to go and check some of their race times in races with heavy marshal presence, and the bike and runs were noticeably slower.


2013-08-18 9:38 AM
in reply to: Brungart

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Why even worry about it. You race for yourself , people who cheat at anything(like golf etc.) are only kidding themself's, don't waste your time or energy on them.
2013-08-18 10:01 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Originally posted by mikealti62

Why even worry about it. You race for yourself , people who cheat at anything(like golf etc.) are only kidding themself's, don't waste your time or energy on them.


That sounds great, but there is a reason race results are listed from first to last.



Edited by Goosedog 2013-08-18 10:03 AM
2013-08-18 2:40 PM
in reply to: Brungart

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race

fortunately- most of us here don't make our living racing tri's.  So, it really doesn't matter.

then again, if they passed me working together on the bike, and I couldn't quite catch them on the run.  And the three of them were standing on the age group podium with me in 4th place 12 seconds behind... it would be hard to emotionally just let it go.

2013-08-18 2:53 PM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Originally posted by morey000

fortunately- most of us here don't make our living racing tri's.  So, it really doesn't matter.



I get this, relatively, but why are triathletes so quick to brush off cheating? Would other recreational athletes, say in a golf tournament or a soccer league, take a similar attitude towards their competitors cheating? I'm by no means fast, but if the difference between me finishing in the top 50% or not is a cheater - I'm not going to like it.


2013-08-18 3:02 PM
in reply to: Brungart

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
By the tone of the post, the first question I have is are you making this conclusion because you don't like their attitudes? There is a legal distance you can follow another rider, and there's nothing against following at this distance and even taking turns at the front.

Now, if they were all sucking wheel, and the race didn't have any officials out on the bike course, and their cheating caused me to fall out of a podium spot I would bring it up to the race director. Not sure what can be done about it after the fact, but at least they can watch for it next time.

I am with Goosedog on this one. Sure, nothing really changes if you get 1st or 100th place, but where's the fun in competition if we're not on a level playing field?


2013-08-18 3:02 PM
in reply to: 0

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Unless they are caught by the Director, Marshal, or watchful and concerned volunteer, it'll be your word against theirs. Sucks, I know.

Edited by 1stTimeTri 2013-08-18 3:02 PM
2013-08-18 3:12 PM
in reply to: 1stTimeTri

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race

It usually doesn't affect them (sometimes it does), but I call out drafters when I seem.  "Nice draft guys, you realize you are cheating"   Or something similar.

Last season the run course at an Oly followed a winding sidewalk path.   Lots of guys (mostly guys over girls) were running on the street, which went straight.  I called out every single one, "the course is on the path, you are cutting the course," and if they didn't get on the path (some did, some didn't), I followed it up with "cheater"

I also mention something to the RD after the race, although I don't give numbers generally, honestly I don't trust my race addled memory to get them right necessarily

2013-08-18 3:43 PM
in reply to: mikealti62

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
/rant on I really, really dislike cheaters. Big pet peeve of mine. Even if I'm at the BOP in a triathlon (and I usually am), I still hate cheaters. If someone passes me on the run and they are jamming out on their ipod, it pisses me off. Maybe it's a personality defect of mine or maybe it's because I've just found myself in a lot of competitive situations where I have chosen not to cheat. Anyhow, I think it it does matter. I cannot stand it when people say "oh it doesn't hurt you" or "what's it to you? Run your race." That's just enabling and excusing bad behavior. This is why people suck. /rant off
2013-08-18 4:13 PM
in reply to: gotab

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Originally posted by gotab

/rant on I really, really dislike cheaters. Big pet peeve of mine. Even if I'm at the BOP in a triathlon (and I usually am), I still hate cheaters. If someone passes me on the run and they are jamming out on their ipod, it pisses me off. Maybe it's a personality defect of mine or maybe it's because I've just found myself in a lot of competitive situations where I have chosen not to cheat. Anyhow, I think it it does matter. I cannot stand it when people say "oh it doesn't hurt you" or "what's it to you? Run your race." That's just enabling and excusing bad behavior. This is why people suck. /rant off

Totally with you on this. I'm so far in the BOP, I celebrate every spot from dead last that I climb up. I was doing a local really laid-back 5k as part of a winter series where they didn't even do top runner awards. (Lots of door prizes though and good people.) i saw a girl cut the out-and-back course about 200 yards short so she could catch up with friends and they walked. It pissed me off so much, I was determined to catch them. And yeah, it is a bit ridiculous from a purely objective perspective that it shood matter to me, or that I should have an issue if they were WALKING, but even with my glacially slow run pace, I worked hard to make sure I passed them. No course cutting on my watch, even at the BOBOP. I think I PR'ed.

I coach Girls on the Run. My team knows that Coach Andy won't be out there yelling at them to go harder or anything like that, but they absolutely get the message that no matter your pace, you never cut the course. You just don't.

2013-08-18 4:16 PM
in reply to: gotab

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Ditto WHen I went back to school I was horrified at how prevalent cheating was in some of my math courses and it still makes me angry thinking about it. I was at a 5k and there was a whole family wearing a photo copy of a bib because the race sold out before they registered, and the ipod and drafting thing rubs me the wrong way too. I generally aim for "not last" and it shouldn't matter, but it does get to me.


2013-08-18 7:35 PM
in reply to: bigevilgrape

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Add another MOP-BOP to the chorus of people who are bothered by this.
Part of the reason it bothers me so much is that most triathletes are so nice, handing out "good job!"s whether we're passing or getting passed, helping out fellow competitors with little tips and stuff... It's frustrating that some are such blatant jerks that they'll intentionally draft.
I have a little more sympathy for people who might not have a clue (ie, a couple riding side by side in their first tri or something) or people who are clearly in pain cutting the course. It's not right but it's understandable. But to plan, going into the race, that you'll ride in a pack, is just inexcusable to me.
2013-08-18 7:41 PM
in reply to: Brungart

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
When I see people doing this (rarely thankfully), I just chalk them up as idiots. As a single handicap golfer, quit playing in those "charity" tournaments where guys would use their 1 mulligan over and over, cheat left and right, and shoot 59 and win the tourney. Obviously in golf, there is only honor system. Some just don't have it, Whether it's their marriage, business, sports, or other places. Fact of life.
2013-08-18 8:37 PM
in reply to: Brungart

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Originally posted by Brungart

My question is what is the point. It's a small local race a lot of us do in between bigger races, for fun. To me these are the people that ruin the small local races.

They ruin all races. A lot of people at the "small local race" are there actually trying to win and compete, not just do it for fun.

Your post kind of comes across that they aren't bad people for doing it, but pathetic for bothering to do it in a small (non IM i'm guessing) race because you don't view it as one where the result/goal matters as much.
2013-08-18 8:42 PM
in reply to: Brungart

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
No real strong opinion either way on the whole cheating thing (other than it would suck to lose a podium spot to someone because of it), but I had no idea what wearing a banana hammock was.  Googled it.  Bwhahahaha.
2013-08-18 10:12 PM
in reply to: Brungart


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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Not worth worrying about. Even if it costs you the podium - there are bigger issues to worry about, mainly of one's one training and performance.

I'm hoping that the draftlike riding was due to unfavorable course layout in areas - for example, in a oly I did last year, there was a fast big bomb down a highway, right into a heavy T-intersection and the lane narrowed from wide-open to literally only one rider width with no passing - for nearly 1.5 miles, since all traffic lanes were open and cones demarcated the only ride zone.

In that zone, I recall, me and 4 other riders doing a FOP, rode ride into the backs of another 3-4 rider pack of much slower riders 1 or 2 waves ahead of us, and we were just stuck. Made it look like a draftfest for sure, except for the fact we were riding like 4mph slower than we'd like to.

Other times it has happened are bottlenecks around short corners - if there's one dicey person or one slowster taking the main line, you're going to get a bunchup that might hold for a good quarter mile.

Still, I'm not disputing that blatant cheating doesn't happen regularly - we've all seen the pack of 4 fast riders who blow by you in a train on completely closed roads with no turns, and think ?WTF


2013-08-18 11:18 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Cheating at (amateur!) tri is just about as laughable as it gets, and yes they should be called out and ridiculed. Don't make a big deal about it -- make fun of them.

Having said that, worrying about it is pretty much the epitome of a first world problem...
2013-08-19 1:37 AM
in reply to: Experior

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
I don't like cheaters for many reasons.
We used to say "If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem".
This is my opinion.
2013-08-19 2:21 AM
in reply to: gotab

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Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
Originally posted by gotab
  • ..I still hate cheaters. If someone passes me on the run and they are jamming out on their ipod, it pisses me off.


  • Listening to music is cheating?

    I know some races have rules against listening to music for safety reasons, but not for performance reasons. So against the rules yes. Cheating no.

    I recall reading a study that listening to music while running actually hurts your performance for experienced runners and only helped for beginners just learning to run.

    Am I missing something?
    2013-08-19 6:32 AM
    in reply to: Chillin

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    Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
    Originally posted by Chillin

    Originally posted by gotab
  • ..I still hate cheaters. If someone passes me on the run and they are jamming out on their ipod, it pisses me off.


  • Listening to music is cheating?

    I know some races have rules against listening to music for safety reasons, but not for performance reasons. So against the rules yes. Cheating no.

    I recall reading a study that listening to music while running actually hurts your performance for experienced runners and only helped for beginners just learning to run.

    Am I missing something?


    AFAIK, USAT rules are that no ipods etc are allowed on the race course and that if you are discovered with them there are penalties associated - not sure if its a time one, or a DQ though

    this article kinda breaks it down Barney style - http://www.healthytippingpoint.com/2013/04/need-to-know-usat-triath...

    Specifically - Article V.9 – “Illegal equipment. Any participants who any time uses, wears or carries a headset, radio, headphones, personal audio device, or any other item described in Section 3.4(i) shall be assessed a variable time penalty.”



    2013-08-19 6:37 AM
    in reply to: Chillin

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    Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race

    Originally posted by Chillin
    Originally posted by gotab ...I still hate cheaters. If someone passes me on the run and they are jamming out on their ipod, it pisses me off.
    Listening to music is cheating? I know some races have rules against listening to music for safety reasons, but not for performance reasons. So against the rules yes. Cheating no. I recall reading a study that listening to music while running actually hurts your performance for experienced runners and only helped for beginners just learning to run. Am I missing something?

    It's against USAT rules all the time.  USATF made it up to the descretion of their race directors a couple of years ago.

    As far as the USAT, it's covered in a couple of places:

    Rule 3.4d Unauthorized Assistance, which prohibits pacing devices.

    Rule 3.4i  Unauthorized Accessories,  which addresses it from a safety standpoint.

    I guess I've always considered willful breaking of any rule to be cheating.

    Mark   

     



    2013-08-19 6:41 AM
    in reply to: RedCorvette

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    Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
    Originally posted by RedCorvette

    Originally posted by Chillin
    Originally posted by gotab ...I still hate cheaters. If someone passes me on the run and they are jamming out on their ipod, it pisses me off.
    Listening to music is cheating? I know some races have rules against listening to music for safety reasons, but not for performance reasons. So against the rules yes. Cheating no. I recall reading a study that listening to music while running actually hurts your performance for experienced runners and only helped for beginners just learning to run. Am I missing something?

    It's against USAT rules all the time.  USATF made it up to the descretion of their race directors a couple of years ago.

    As far as the USAT, it's covered in a couple of places:

    Rule 3.4d Unauthorized Assistance, which prohibits pacing devices.

    Rule 3.4i  Unauthorized Accessories,  which addresses it from a safety standpoint.

    I guess I've always considered willful breaking of any rule to be cheating.

    Mark   

     




    is the pacing devices covered under unauthorized assistance? I was going to ask that question - because essentially, you could set a watch with timers to be a "pacing" device - if it gives you current pace, and you use a pacing card to figure out where you need to be for a certain time...
    2013-08-19 6:59 AM
    in reply to: RedCorvette

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    Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
    Originally posted by RedCorvette

    It's against USAT rules all the time.  USATF made it up to the descretion of their race directors a couple of years ago.

    As far as the USAT, it's covered in a couple of places:

    Rule 3.4d Unauthorized Assistance, which prohibits pacing devices.

    Rule 3.4i  Unauthorized Accessories,  which addresses it from a safety standpoint.

    I guess I've always considered willful breaking of any rule to be cheating.

    Mark   

     

    3.4d (or anything else in the USAT rules) does not prohibit pacing devices. They're quite legal and used extensively, as every watch and Garmin is a pacing device. 

    You are correct that 3.4i prohibits personal audio devices.

    2013-08-19 7:01 AM
    in reply to: the bear

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    Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
    cool gouge on the pacing devices - I was wondering that - I train with a Gym Boss (interval trainer - that I have set to 3 min run, 1 min walk) - but haven't used it in a race and wasn't sure if I would be able to or not
    2013-08-19 7:27 AM
    in reply to: austhokie

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    Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race
    I did a small triathlon this weekend (62 entrants) and was bothered that time penalties weren't being handed out for blatant rule violations. Not only were they letting people ride and run with earbuds, but they were letting people ride into and out of transition. I made sure to get off the bike before the dismount line, but a couple people just rode all the way to the racks. It makes me mad that people are allowed to cheat. It was even worse that it was a small race because there are fewer people between MOP and podium.
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