General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Bric workout - and high heart rate? Rss Feed  
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2013-08-21 3:08 AM

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Subject: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
Training with HR monitor and trying to build a very solid base, one begins a plan in preperation for a Sprint Tri. Part of the plan are 2-3 bric workouts with bike/run transitions, so far no problem. But after the bike leg, and entering into the run leg I notice that HR is high and outside of Z2. Now, is that acceptable for the "bric workouts" - or should one still try to maintain the Z2 training? In my case I am able to lower HR by slowing down the run, but never enough to hit Z2.

Is it alright for bric workouts to NOT be concerned with maintaining Z2 training?
Or is it the opposite and one should hit the higher zones during the run?

Thanks for your help and advise.


2013-08-21 8:15 AM
in reply to: rpistor

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?

Originally posted by rpistor Training with HR monitor and trying to build a very solid base, one begins a plan in preperation for a Sprint Tri. Part of the plan are 2-3 bric workouts with bike/run transitions, so far no problem. But after the bike leg, and entering into the run leg I notice that HR is high and outside of Z2. Now, is that acceptable for the "bric workouts" - or should one still try to maintain the Z2 training? In my case I am able to lower HR by slowing down the run, but never enough to hit Z2. Is it alright for bric workouts to NOT be concerned with maintaining Z2 training? Or is it the opposite and one should hit the higher zones during the run? Thanks for your help and advise.

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I think the real question is should you be doing brick workouts, and I think the answer is probably not.

2013-08-21 9:35 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by rpistor Training with HR monitor and trying to build a very solid base, one begins a plan in preperation for a Sprint Tri. Part of the plan are 2-3 bric workouts with bike/run transitions, so far no problem. But after the bike leg, and entering into the run leg I notice that HR is high and outside of Z2. Now, is that acceptable for the "bric workouts" - or should one still try to maintain the Z2 training? In my case I am able to lower HR by slowing down the run, but never enough to hit Z2. Is it alright for bric workouts to NOT be concerned with maintaining Z2 training? Or is it the opposite and one should hit the higher zones during the run? Thanks for your help and advise.

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I think the real question is should you be doing brick workouts, and I think the answer is probably not.




Why not?

Rpistor: During a BRICK work out/actual race, I tend to bike/run a bit slower while my HR settles & then I hit the gas. I have found that not doing this, i.e. going all out after the swim/bike, causes me to crash midway through the race. (I'm talking olympic distance.)
2013-08-21 9:42 AM
in reply to: Porfirio

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
Originally posted by Porfirio
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by rpistor Training with HR monitor and trying to build a very solid base, one begins a plan in preperation for a Sprint Tri. Part of the plan are 2-3 bric workouts with bike/run transitions, so far no problem. But after the bike leg, and entering into the run leg I notice that HR is high and outside of Z2. Now, is that acceptable for the "bric workouts" - or should one still try to maintain the Z2 training? In my case I am able to lower HR by slowing down the run, but never enough to hit Z2. Is it alright for bric workouts to NOT be concerned with maintaining Z2 training? Or is it the opposite and one should hit the higher zones during the run? Thanks for your help and advise.

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I think the real question is should you be doing brick workouts, and I think the answer is probably not.

Why not? Rpistor: During a BRICK work out/actual race, I tend to bike/run a bit slower while my HR settles & then I hit the gas. I have found that not doing this, i.e. going all out after the swim/bike, causes me to crash midway through the race. (I'm talking olympic distance.)

 

The phisiological benefits are far outweighed by the damage you're doing to your legs. Running on tired legs is detrimental to your form. When you run with poor form you open the door for injuries. There is no special fitness gained by doing a brick. You would be much better served running, resting for hours, then cycling later.

2013-08-21 9:49 AM
in reply to: rpistor

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
Wow. This topic was derailed. If I were training for a sprint, I would get rid of Z2 training and start some Z4 efforts on the brick. Unless you are planning on Z2ing the race.
2013-08-21 9:55 AM
in reply to: GAUG3

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?

Originally posted by GAUG3 Wow. This topic was derailed. If I were training for a sprint, I would get rid of Z2 training and start some Z4 efforts on the brick. Unless you are planning on Z2ing the race.

This topic isn't derailed, however that is potentially terrible advice. If I did a brick at race pace I would need significant time to recover from it. Without proper volume and base that is a great way to get injured or ruin your training.



2013-08-21 10:42 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Porfirio
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by rpistor Training with HR monitor and trying to build a very solid base, one begins a plan in preperation for a Sprint Tri. Part of the plan are 2-3 bric workouts with bike/run transitions, so far no problem. But after the bike leg, and entering into the run leg I notice that HR is high and outside of Z2. Now, is that acceptable for the "bric workouts" - or should one still try to maintain the Z2 training? In my case I am able to lower HR by slowing down the run, but never enough to hit Z2. Is it alright for bric workouts to NOT be concerned with maintaining Z2 training? Or is it the opposite and one should hit the higher zones during the run? Thanks for your help and advise.

I know this doesn't really answer your question, but I think the real question is should you be doing brick workouts, and I think the answer is probably not.

Why not? Rpistor: During a BRICK work out/actual race, I tend to bike/run a bit slower while my HR settles & then I hit the gas. I have found that not doing this, i.e. going all out after the swim/bike, causes me to crash midway through the race. (I'm talking olympic distance.)

 

The phisiological benefits are far outweighed by the damage you're doing to your legs. Running on tired legs is detrimental to your form. When you run with poor form you open the door for injuries. There is no special fitness gained by doing a brick. You would be much better served running, resting for hours, then cycling later.




Good point on the advice in regards to not running while fatigued. However, that is more acceptable advice to give for HIM/IM training. Running off the bike is a neuromuscular skill your body needs to adapt to. For your muscular fibers to learn the correct firing patterns to run at high efforts quickly, you need to run off the bike more frequently. The shorter the distance the race the more skillful running off the bike is. Sprints are short enough that you can run very close to threshold if not at threshold, whereas IM you are running in that 70-75% range.

To the OP, it depends on where your fitness levels are and how comfortable you feel. If you are experienced and training at a bit higher level then being out of zone 2 is okay, if you are going for a first race, or new to the sport then maybe you want to back if off a bit.

I always suggest progressing your workouts, so for bricks maybe

4x.25 miles at race pace on 30-60 seconds recovery/4x.5 miles at race pace on 30-60 seconds recovery and so on and so forth. Maybe start the run with 1-2 minutes easy.

BUT, sprints are sprints and short enough where you can really push yourself hard, the more you are experienced the closer you should be racing to threshold.
2013-08-21 10:47 AM
in reply to: rpistor

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?

Which training plan are you following?

How did you determine your heart rate ranges for the zones? (and they should be different for bike and run)

2013-08-21 1:57 PM
in reply to: TriAya

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
^^^ Those ^^^ are important questions.

The correct intensity running off the bike is determined by what purpose that run is supposed to serve.

I do it for one of three purposes:

1. It's a chance to get in more running, and I don't have a better chance.
2. I need to practice pacing off the bike.
3. As part of my race rehearsal workout for a HIM or IM.

I aim for quite different paces in those three cases.

Running on tired legs is not particularly bad. Running badly on tired legs is bad. Running badly on fresh legs is bad too.
2013-08-21 2:46 PM
in reply to: rpistor

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?

During a brick run my running HR is never per my LT derived run HR zones.  I do just like I do in a race, ignore the HRM and go by RPE or pace.  Also, I only do a few bricks 2-3 weeks before a sprint race with nothing longer than race distance (race course practice 1-2 weeks before) with most runs only 1/2 to 1/4 race distance.  For pace I only do race pace on the beginning portion of the shortest runs.

 

2013-08-21 3:24 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
Thanks for the answers, great suggestions. In my case: I do have experience, and I do have what I would consider a relatively solid base. The bric work out is nothing new to me, in fact it feels very comfortable and relaxed, and my form is good. So, I am not killing myself, far from it.

My question was of a more general nature (if that is possible here): is a bric workout as part of a plan for preparation to a Sprint to be done within Z2 or does one go faster (more like Z3/Z4) as far as the run is concerned?

I realize that bric is done in preparation for a "real race" and to get used to the feeling - all of that is nothing new to me. Assume that you have done races, you know what it "feels like" coming of the bike, but seemingly your HR is higher then Z2 - is that OK for a bric?


2013-08-22 7:17 AM
in reply to: rpistor

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Subject: RE: Bric workout - and high heart rate?
Originally posted by rpistor

Thanks for the answers, great suggestions. In my case: I do have experience, and I do have what I would consider a relatively solid base. The bric work out is nothing new to me, in fact it feels very comfortable and relaxed, and my form is good. So, I am not killing myself, far from it.

My question was of a more general nature (if that is possible here): is a bric workout as part of a plan for preparation to a Sprint to be done within Z2 or does one go faster (more like Z3/Z4) as far as the run is concerned?

I realize that bric is done in preparation for a "real race" and to get used to the feeling - all of that is nothing new to me. Assume that you have done races, you know what it "feels like" coming of the bike, but seemingly your HR is higher then Z2 - is that OK for a bric?


There is no general answer. It depends on why you are doing the run off the bike. If you are just trying to put in some easy miles, then no, you probably should not be above Z2, assuming we've got a fairly standard understanding of what Z2 means and have figured out what that means for us in terms of actual HR. If you just hammered the bike, it might take a mile or so for your HR to settle. If it doesn't settle and you are supposed to be running easy (Z2-ish), then slow down.
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