General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Heel Strikers not as fast??? Rss Feed  
Moderators: jmk-brooklyn, Ron Reply
2013-09-02 7:49 PM

User image

Expert
1325
100010010010025
Wilmington, NC
Subject: Heel Strikers not as fast???
there are always tons of threads about how do I stop heel striking, forefoot striking would be so much quicker etc etc. I figured I would add fuel to the fire uumm I mean debate.
Check these two cats out.

All I will say is 12:37 and 26:17





(1B54CD0EEA5761372C404D623D41.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
1B54CD0EEA5761372C404D623D41.jpg (37KB - 7 downloads)


2013-09-02 7:54 PM
in reply to: qrkid

User image

Champion
8938
50002000100050010010010010025
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by qrkid

there are always tons of threads about how do I stop heel striking, forefoot striking would be so much quicker etc etc. I figured I would add fuel to the fire uumm I mean debate.
Check these two cats out.

All I will say is 12:37 and 26:17




I'm shocked!

Shane
2013-09-02 7:57 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

User image

Expert
1325
100010010010025
Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by qrkid

there are always tons of threads about how do I stop heel striking, forefoot striking would be so much quicker etc etc. I figured I would add fuel to the fire uumm I mean debate.
Check these two cats out.

All I will say is 12:37 and 26:17




I'm shocked!

Shane


well to be fair. Tariku looks like he has more of a pronounced heel strike and he has only gone 12:52 and 27:03 so it must have some validity to it, right?
2013-09-02 8:10 PM
in reply to: qrkid

User image

Expert
2066
20002525
Greenville, SC
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by qrkid

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by qrkid

there are always tons of threads about how do I stop heel striking, forefoot striking would be so much quicker etc etc. I figured I would add fuel to the fire uumm I mean debate.
Check these two cats out.

All I will say is 12:37 and 26:17




I'm shocked!

Shane

well to be fair. Tariku looks like he has more of a pronounced heel strike and he has only gone 12:52 and 27:03 so it must have some validity to it, right?

Exactly. im going to go practice forefoot striking tomorrow.
2013-09-02 10:58 PM
in reply to: qrkid

New user
303
100100100
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
I think the discussion is hurt by using the term 'Heel Striker' It's really more a case of over striding verses landing centered over your feet. There are lots of people who heel strike under their center of mass who are very fast. It's just really hard to forefoot strike out in front of your center of mass.
2013-09-02 11:04 PM
in reply to: qrkid

User image

Champion
7507
50002000500
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Funny you should post this. The other day I was looking at video and pics of very fast milers (< 3:50 guys) and noticed that they were mostly heel-strikers. I've got that part down. Now if I could just get the <3:50/mile part down...

It might be worth adding that it's easy to forget how fast these guys are moving (faster than most of us run 100m...), so yeah, while they are clearly leading with the heel and do (often) strike there first, there is a very quick roll-over and no braking whatsoever. In a still pic, it can look like they are striking with their heel well out in front (which would likely result in braking) but they are moving so fast that by the time they strike, the foot is under their body (though still striking heel first, mostly).


2013-09-03 1:16 AM
in reply to: bufordt

User image

Extreme Veteran
924
500100100100100
, Kobenhavns Kommune
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by bufordt

I think the discussion is hurt by using the term 'Heel Striker' It's really more a case of over striding verses landing centered over your feet. There are lots of people who heel strike under their center of mass who are very fast. It's just really hard to forefoot strike out in front of your center of mass.


It's the other way around: It is really really hard to heel strike under your center of mass, you'll have to lift your forefoot really hard to do that. If you heel strike you almost certainly also overstride. If you forefoot strike, you may still overstride.

But yes: For speed, the problem is overstriding, for certain injuries, the problem seems to be heel striking.
2013-09-03 6:39 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Champion
7507
50002000500
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by erik.norgaard

...It is really really hard to heel strike under your center of mass...


And yet the Bekeles make it look so easy... ;-) And it really is. If your foot is under your c.o.g., then the slightest dorsiflex of the ankle will cause your heel to strike first. That's what they are both doing in the pic that Daryn posted.

[edited for civility]

Edited by Experior 2013-09-03 6:59 AM
2013-09-03 7:10 AM
in reply to: Experior

User image

Regular
172
1002525
Arlington, VA
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
For every study there is an equal and opposite study (at least when it comes to stride/nutrition):

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/study-rearfoot-forefoot-st...

Studies have said that forefoot is more efficient, studies have said that heel striking is more efficient, studies have said that most of the fastest people are heel strikers, studies have said ....

Also, those guys in the picture are definitely not putting their foot down under their center of gravity, those feet are definitely out in front. That said, just because someone is fast doesn't mean their form is perfect. The long and short of it is that right now, the science isn't there to confirm anyone's hypotheses about what running form is "best," if there even is a best. Yes, the popular trend right now is to move toward mid-forefoot running, but I will not be surprised at all if that swings back in the next 20 years.

From personal experience, I have transitioned to a midfoot strike and I find that it is less efficient, that is, I'm more tired going the same pace as I used to. That said, I have avoided the normal injuries that plagued me with my old running form, so I'm going to stick with the new. Do what you want, but no matter what your opinions are, don't try to claim that the science supports your opinion fully, because it quite simply isn't there yet.
2013-09-03 7:38 AM
in reply to: __sugar__

User image

Extreme Veteran
1454
10001001001001002525
Maryland
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???

Originally posted by __sugar__ For every study there is an equal and opposite study (at least when it comes to stride/nutrition): http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/study-rearfoot-forefoot-st... Studies have said that forefoot is more efficient, studies have said that heel striking is more efficient, studies have said that most of the fastest people are heel strikers, studies have said .... Also, those guys in the picture are definitely not putting their foot down under their center of gravity, those feet are definitely out in front. That said, just because someone is fast doesn't mean their form is perfect. The long and short of it is that right now, the science isn't there to confirm anyone's hypotheses about what running form is "best," if there even is a best. Yes, the popular trend right now is to move toward mid-forefoot running, but I will not be surprised at all if that swings back in the next 20 years. From personal experience, I have transitioned to a midfoot strike and I find that it is less efficient, that is, I'm more tired going the same pace as I used to. That said, I have avoided the normal injuries that plagued me with my old running form, so I'm going to stick with the new. Do what you want, but no matter what your opinions are, don't try to claim that the science supports your opinion fully, because it quite simply isn't there yet.

 

Well their feet aren't down yet so I don't know how you can make this determination. As mentioned earlier they are moving. I'd bet, regardless of foot "strike," that they are loading the foot at the mid/forefoot under their center of gravity

2013-09-03 7:48 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Regular
5477
5000100100100100252525
LHOTP
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by __sugar__ For every study there is an equal and opposite study (at least when it comes to stride/nutrition): http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/study-rearfoot-forefoot-st... Studies have said that forefoot is more efficient, studies have said that heel striking is more efficient, studies have said that most of the fastest people are heel strikers, studies have said .... Also, those guys in the picture are definitely not putting their foot down under their center of gravity, those feet are definitely out in front. That said, just because someone is fast doesn't mean their form is perfect. The long and short of it is that right now, the science isn't there to confirm anyone's hypotheses about what running form is "best," if there even is a best. Yes, the popular trend right now is to move toward mid-forefoot running, but I will not be surprised at all if that swings back in the next 20 years. From personal experience, I have transitioned to a midfoot strike and I find that it is less efficient, that is, I'm more tired going the same pace as I used to. That said, I have avoided the normal injuries that plagued me with my old running form, so I'm going to stick with the new. Do what you want, but no matter what your opinions are, don't try to claim that the science supports your opinion fully, because it quite simply isn't there yet.

 

Well their feet aren't down yet so I don't know how you can make this determination. As mentioned earlier they are moving. I'd bet, regardless of foot "strike," that they are loading the foot at the mid/forefoot under their center of gravity

Yup, this...all 130lbs of them


2013-09-03 8:00 AM
in reply to: switch

User image

Champion
7507
50002000500
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by switch

Yup, this...all 130lbs of them


They weigh 130 only if they are holding a 10 lb weight.. . ;-)

Scary, I know.
2013-09-03 8:05 AM
in reply to: qrkid

User image

New user
68
2525
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Not to sidetrack the topic, but I started watching an interesting video on Gliders vs Gazelle type running.
It's interesting not everyone has a same stride.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJWPwVF30yo
2013-09-03 8:09 AM
in reply to: Experior

User image

Regular
5477
5000100100100100252525
LHOTP
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by Experior
Originally posted by switch Yup, this...all 130lbs of them
They weigh 130 only if they are holding a 10 lb weight.. . ;-)Scary, I know.
yeah, I thought that seemed high, wiki...
2013-09-03 9:03 AM
in reply to: switch

User image

Extreme Veteran
991
500100100100100252525
Highlands Ranch, Colorado
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Meb is also a heel striker, and no Meb does not weigh 130 either.
2013-09-03 1:49 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Veteran
556
5002525
Grapevine, TX
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
When one looks at elites and sub-elites heel striking, whether apparent or actual, you should also look at stride length and stride form. It matters to the equation. just because the foot appears to land on the heel, and may well do so, doesn't match the jarring heel striking that you get when you heel strike with (relative) slow, short strides. Those are equivalent to using the brakes on a car while pressing on the gas.

Edited by FranzZemen 2013-09-03 1:50 PM


2013-09-03 3:51 PM
in reply to: FranzZemen

User image

Not a Coach
11030
50005000100025
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???

Originally posted by FranzZemen When one looks at elites and sub-elites heel striking, whether apparent or actual, you should also look at stride length and stride form. It matters to the equation. just because the foot appears to land on the heel, and may well do so, doesn't match the jarring heel striking that you get when you heel strike with (relative) slow, short strides. Those are equivalent to using the brakes on a car while pressing on the gas.

So how come when "elites and sub-elites" slow down and shorten their strides, even more of them tend to heel strike?

2013-09-03 3:58 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

User image

Pro
9170
5000200020001002525
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
What is a "sub-elite"?
2013-09-03 7:33 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Expert
1325
100010010010025
Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
Originally posted by Left Brain

What is a "sub-elite"?



ok I have to totally derail the thread to ask Left Brain a question.

the pic in your avatar. Is that the former football player "He Hate Me"?


Ok. Back to what are sub elite who heel strike?
2013-09-03 9:05 PM
in reply to: qrkid

User image

Champion
7507
50002000500
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???

Originally posted by qrkid
Originally posted by Left Brain What is a "sub-elite"?
ok I have to totally derail the thread to ask Left Brain a question. the pic in your avatar. Is that the former football player "He Hate Me"?  Ok. Back to what are sub elite who heel strike?

I have no idea who that is, Daryn, but I think I have the same question.  So let's settle this 'who the heck are you Left Brain?' issue once and for all...

On a totally secondary note:  Elites are people who run fast, and sub-elites are people who think a lot about how to run fast but cannot actually do it.  I'm sub elite.   And like most sub-elites, I heel strike.

As for the various comments about when 'loading' occurs, what causes 'braking', etc., these facts are really quite difficult to judge even from good video and a degree in physics.  Even with sophisticated force plates, etc., it just isn't that easy.  People get PhDs on this stuff.  Which is itself a bit difficult to understand.

Here's a better solution than worrying about all that stuff (I'm saying it only because apparently Scout is not here to do so):  run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard.  Figure out a way to do that and we'll solve all sorts of problems that theory just cannot address.

I think I just occupied about 4 different personae (yeah, I learned Latin as a kid) in this post, some of them ironically (I learned English too...) so if you are in high school, you get 2 credits for reading it.

2013-09-05 7:22 PM
in reply to: Experior

User image


81
252525
Subject: RE: Heel Strikers not as fast???
I think everyone's missing the point here. Their Nike gear is very pretty. It's not how you run that makes you fast. It's what you wear! Triathletes should know this one inside out.


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Heel Strikers not as fast??? Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

Heel Strikers Unite! Pages: 1 2

Started by bryancd
Views: 1724 Posts: 39

2012-02-24 10:42 AM JeffY

Not ran for 3 weeks = heel pain?

Started by pipsyboy
Views: 49 Posts: 1

2011-09-05 3:24 PM pipsyboy

Not ran for 3 weeks = heel pain?

Started by pipsyboy
Views: 62 Posts: 1

2011-09-05 3:23 PM pipsyboy

Newton Founder a Heel-Striker?

Started by scottuf
Views: 1182 Posts: 24

2011-01-13 6:21 PM tcovert

Megan Fox is a Heel Striker

Started by jsklarz
Views: 1931 Posts: 19

2011-01-02 7:17 PM Fastyellow
RELATED ARTICLES
date : October 15, 2012
author : AMSSM
comments : 6
Over the past couple of months I've been waking up with a sore heel. Right in the center, it feels like I stepped on a pebble and bruised it. The pain, fairly minor, goes away as the day progresses.
 
date : November 23, 2009
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
I suffer from pain in the bottom of my left heel after my run. It doesn't hurt when I run but as the day goes on the pain worsens.
date : June 23, 2009
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
The whole bottoms of my feet hurt these days. Been running for a number of years now and this is a first. Do you have any tips?
 
date : February 23, 2009
author : mrakes1
comments : 0
I usually have at least one workout per day, sometimes two or three, but I spend about all in-between time eating. I am not gaining weight, but I am not losing weight either. Should I be concerned?
date : July 5, 2005
author : Michael Silva
comments : 1
I don't really strength train (because I never have and don't really know much about it) and feel like my lack of upper body strength is the reason why I'm not getting faster.
 
date : July 4, 2005
author : KenMierke
comments : 0
Despite what most runners and their coaches believe, technique plays an enormous role in sustained fast running.
date : April 9, 2005
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
If I start back training too soon will I cause more damage or will I just stop the healing process? How long should it take for the muscle to heal completely?
 
date : February 28, 2005
author : sherrick
comments : 0
A 26 week, 6 race series plan for faster performance. A SILVER/GOLD member plan.