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2014-04-22 4:48 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by switch Nice! I've been adding a tiny bit of speed work/ intensity with Shane's challenge and it is amazing how much it takes out of me. I officially feel old

I've been checking out Shane's thread...I would participate but it's the wrong time in my training plan.  I might steal a workout or two...I liked the idea of the accelerations you all did last week.  I can't believe more people aren't joining that...they could learn a lot from him.

There are so many who should be all over this. Vast majority of the forum, really. At least jumping in and getting what they can out of it.

This just baffles me.  I can't really give my running the attention the challenge deserves, but I'm trying to do what I can because it's such an opportuntiy.  I don't understand the low participation. 

It looks great.  I just got my own plan going right now.



2014-04-22 6:39 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by switch Nice! I've been adding a tiny bit of speed work/ intensity with Shane's challenge and it is amazing how much it takes out of me. I officially feel old

I've been checking out Shane's thread...I would participate but it's the wrong time in my training plan.  I might steal a workout or two...I liked the idea of the accelerations you all did last week.  I can't believe more people aren't joining that...they could learn a lot from him.

There are so many who should be all over this. Vast majority of the forum, really. At least jumping in and getting what they can out of it.

This just baffles me.  I can't really give my running the attention the challenge deserves, but I'm trying to do what I can because it's such an opportuntiy.  I don't understand the low participation. 

It looks great.  I just got my own plan going right now.

You're one of the exceptions. You've had a good thing going and you know what it's like to make some notable progress. So many others seem to be fairly content with what they're doing, accepting that they won't be as fast as others. Not everyone will become super fast, but there are plenty who look for a magic workout or program to follow. This type of thing is about the closest they'll get to one and it's being handed out too them! The cycling group was a big success as far as I could tell. And it'll be the same thing going on here. It could be a case of not quite fitting into the schedule, but to that I would suggest not letting perfect get in the way of better. 

2014-04-23 8:55 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by switch Nice! I've been adding a tiny bit of speed work/ intensity with Shane's challenge and it is amazing how much it takes out of me. I officially feel old :)

I've been checking out Shane's thread...I would participate but it's the wrong time in my training plan.  I might steal a workout or two...I liked the idea of the accelerations you all did last week.  I can't believe more people aren't joining that...they could learn a lot from him.

There are so many who should be all over this. Vast majority of the forum, really. At least jumping in and getting what they can out of it.

This just baffles me.  I can't really give my running the attention the challenge deserves, but I'm trying to do what I can because it's such an opportuntiy.  I don't understand the low participation. 

It looks great.  I just got my own plan going right now.

You're one of the exceptions. You've had a good thing going and you know what it's like to make some notable progress. So many others seem to be fairly content with what they're doing, accepting that they won't be as fast as others. Not everyone will become super fast, but there are plenty who look for a magic workout or program to follow. This type of thing is about the closest they'll get to one and it's being handed out too them! The cycling group was a big success as far as I could tell. And it'll be the same thing going on here. It could be a case of not quite fitting into the schedule, but to that I would suggest not letting perfect get in the way of better. 

Exactly this.

2014-04-23 10:01 AM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by switch Nice! I've been adding a tiny bit of speed work/ intensity with Shane's challenge and it is amazing how much it takes out of me. I officially feel old

I've been checking out Shane's thread...I would participate but it's the wrong time in my training plan.  I might steal a workout or two...I liked the idea of the accelerations you all did last week.  I can't believe more people aren't joining that...they could learn a lot from him.

There are so many who should be all over this. Vast majority of the forum, really. At least jumping in and getting what they can out of it.

This just baffles me.  I can't really give my running the attention the challenge deserves, but I'm trying to do what I can because it's such an opportuntiy.  I don't understand the low participation. 

It looks great.  I just got my own plan going right now.

You're one of the exceptions. You've had a good thing going and you know what it's like to make some notable progress. So many others seem to be fairly content with what they're doing, accepting that they won't be as fast as others. Not everyone will become super fast, but there are plenty who look for a magic workout or program to follow. This type of thing is about the closest they'll get to one and it's being handed out too them! The cycling group was a big success as far as I could tell. And it'll be the same thing going on here. It could be a case of not quite fitting into the schedule, but to that I would suggest not letting perfect get in the way of better. 

Exactly this.

That much I can agree with.  Honestly his plan is working towards what I do now anyway.

Mon - tempo run

Wed - Intervals

Sat - Easy run with strides at the end
Sun - Long run

2014-04-23 12:03 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Quite a few plans can have these as part of the program, and many people do know of them. But what should set this apart (like with the cycling mentor group) is developing a better understanding of what goes into selecting and executing workouts. In that group they generally categorized people into TT, all around, and "spring" based on the relationship of their 5' & 20' power tests. Each group had different sets of workouts that were distinctly labeled with their focus, with VO2, Threshold, and Sweet Spot.  All of these workouts are broken down into intervals, but more specifically different types of intervals. And from there it should help develop a better sense of what each does. Or what pattern/scheme will work the different aspects of the aerobic system. The run doesn't really have the groups, but does make the distinction of the workouts.

For me, these are very helpful in remembering that i don't need to knock it out of the park every time. Just execute something that does pretty well. Like I don't have to kill it with the VO2 workouts every time. Just get it above 105% so that it will be VO2 focused, meaning that aspect will get the most out of it. There are tips on determining when to stop (fall off amounts, or the harder 105%), but it's not necessary to reach those every time to get some benefit. The ranges are nice too. For the upcoming 400 intervals, it's 4-8 of them. If I can't get to 4 at I-pace, why not? If I get to 8 with a lot left, did I go too easy or underestimate my VDot? I can get somewhere between and know I did ok, and to me, that's rather valuable to know.

ETA: And a few months ago I was struggling to do any work over threshold, and was able to figure that out. Start shorter and smaller, getting something up there. Like doing Revolver or Downwards Spiral at lesser efforts. Pushing those up first and then moving out to longer efforts. I was able to progressively ramp up the longer ones until eventually I was hitting all of them above 105%. And at that point I knew I would be getting what I should out of them. Granted *I* knew beforehand I wasn't getting what I should, but someone newer may not. They always felt "hard" to do, so had to distinguish what type of hard and how to work my way up to being able to do that type of work correctly.



Edited by brigby1 2014-04-23 12:13 PM
2014-04-23 12:48 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by brigby1

Quite a few plans can have these as part of the program, and many people do know of them. But what should set this apart (like with the cycling mentor group) is developing a better understanding of what goes into selecting and executing workouts. In that group they generally categorized people into TT, all around, and "spring" based on the relationship of their 5' & 20' power tests. Each group had different sets of workouts that were distinctly labeled with their focus, with VO2, Threshold, and Sweet Spot.  All of these workouts are broken down into intervals, but more specifically different types of intervals. And from there it should help develop a better sense of what each does. Or what pattern/scheme will work the different aspects of the aerobic system. The run doesn't really have the groups, but does make the distinction of the workouts.

^^^  THIS.

Too many folks hear 4 x 6' @ 105% or 10 x 100 on 1:55 and have no idea why they're doing what they're doing. 

I also agree with your point on those workouts having benefit even if you can't hit every target.  I really struggled this spring on the trainer until I backed down The Plan a bit to something that wasn't thrashing me every time I clipped in.  Now, there's certainly a time and place for some thrashing on the trainer, but I definitely wasn't ready to handle it.

When we were all reading Daniel's last summer/fall, it REALLY opened my eyes to the science of training and that it isn't just how much, it's what you accomplish in the time you're out there.

Good stuff, Ben.



2014-05-04 7:46 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club
2014-05-05 1:05 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

I'm glad to hear one of us had a good race this weekend.

I had a 5k too and woke up with a sour stomach (food poisioning?).  Got sick before I left the house and out the window on the drive to the race.  Got to mile 2.75 and had to stop to get sick again.  Was on pace for 21:00. 

2014-05-05 1:16 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Nice job Mike!

And you too Steve, I can't believe you always toe the line despite being sick!

 

2014-05-05 1:26 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

I had a pretty good M Boston Marathon Race Report (for those of you who haven't read it) Of course "pretty good" is through the lense of being sick. I think if it had been any other race I would have bagged it. But it was also one of those experiences I think everyone needs to have. It leaves me a little in the dark in terms of where my fitness is. I guess I can just use my HM vDOT (54

I'm working on my plan for the summer. A small part of me wants to run another marathon but there is so much more I want out of this sport! I qualified for track & field nationals in the 10K which happens in early July. What I think I might do, leading up to that is a variety of low key races including some trail, maybe some road and some track with no specific A race or anything. I'll keep a weekly long run but my focus will be the shorter, faster stuff. Then I can have a half marathon "A" race in the fall, followed by XC season.

I think in the fall I will do XC again because that was one of the most fun racing seasons I have ever had. I think it also made me a better runner all around. It means I can't really run a fall or winter marathon though.

That being said, I am thinking about targeting either Vancouver marathon or the Yakima River Canyon marathon in the spring. 

 

I'm open to any feedback you all might have though. 

 

2014-05-05 1:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by popsracer

I'm glad to hear one of us had a good race this weekend.

I had a 5k too and woke up with a sour stomach (food poisioning?).  Got sick before I left the house and out the window on the drive to the race.  Got to mile 2.75 and had to stop to get sick again.  Was on pace for 21:00. 

So that was you, huh?  Someone lost their cookies about a mile into ours...it was all over the road.  Blech!!

Hope you're feeling better...I've had food poisoning and that sucks.



Edited by jmhpsu93 2014-05-05 1:49 PM


2014-06-04 8:37 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Got in a really solid OLY this past weekend:

Rock Hall International Triathlon

Clearly, I need to figure out how to run fast off biking hard.  I just couldn't get anywhere near my open 10K pace.

I'm about to up the ante to an HIM; still going to follow Daniels for the running part.  No sense messing with what works!!

Hope everyone has a great, and fast, summer!

2014-06-05 11:08 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Got in a really solid OLY this past weekend:

Rock Hall International Triathlon

Clearly, I need to figure out how to run fast off biking hard.  I just couldn't get anywhere near my open 10K pace.

I'm about to up the ante to an HIM; still going to follow Daniels for the running part.  No sense messing with what works!!

Hope everyone has a great, and fast, summer!

I thought your run was pretty solid given a great bike leg.  How close do you think is reasonable to be to your open time?

I've been planning on giving back 30 seconds a mile and would be happy with that.

For the HIM, (IMHO) I think it is best to be up in the 30-35 mile/wk range.  Mid-week medium long of 8-9 miles and a longer run on the weekend 12-14 with a quality run early in the week and one or two recovery/easy shorter runs in between has worked very well for me.

2014-06-05 12:31 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Got in a really solid OLY this past weekend:

Rock Hall International Triathlon

Clearly, I need to figure out how to run fast off biking hard.  I just couldn't get anywhere near my open 10K pace.

I'm about to up the ante to an HIM; still going to follow Daniels for the running part.  No sense messing with what works!!

Hope everyone has a great, and fast, summer!

I thought your run was pretty solid given a great bike leg.  How close do you think is reasonable to be to your open time?

I've been planning on giving back 30 seconds a mile and would be happy with that.

For the HIM, (IMHO) I think it is best to be up in the 30-35 mile/wk range.  Mid-week medium long of 8-9 miles and a longer run on the weekend 12-14 with a quality run early in the week and one or two recovery/easy shorter runs in between has worked very well for me.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure.  I've typically run pretty well off the bike, but I guess you're right.

Getting into HIM training...your plan sounds like what I would do for an open HM, but I'm concerned about being able to hold that volume while cycling 5-6 hours/week, too.  I guess we shall see!!!  :-)

2014-06-05 3:38 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Got in a really solid OLY this past weekend:

Rock Hall International Triathlon

Clearly, I need to figure out how to run fast off biking hard.  I just couldn't get anywhere near my open 10K pace.

I'm about to up the ante to an HIM; still going to follow Daniels for the running part.  No sense messing with what works!!

Hope everyone has a great, and fast, summer!

I thought your run was pretty solid given a great bike leg.  How close do you think is reasonable to be to your open time?

I've been planning on giving back 30 seconds a mile and would be happy with that.

For the HIM, (IMHO) I think it is best to be up in the 30-35 mile/wk range.  Mid-week medium long of 8-9 miles and a longer run on the weekend 12-14 with a quality run early in the week and one or two recovery/easy shorter runs in between has worked very well for me.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure.  I've typically run pretty well off the bike, but I guess you're right.

Getting into HIM training...your plan sounds like what I would do for an open HM, but I'm concerned about being able to hold that volume while cycling 5-6 hours/week, too.  I guess we shall see!!!  :-)

Well, I hear you on trying to maintain volumes across all three disciplines.  You are committing to much more cycling than I will and I can see how that would infringe on more running volume.

I decided that I would hold my running mileage through the season and if anything had to slip because of overall time constraints it would be swim/bike.  I made good strides last year with bike/swim but run was dismal within my age group.  I think I have gained slightly on swim/bike over the winter but I've dropped my open 10k time by almost four minutes.  I am focusing and banking on extra run volumes this year to push me up in the results.  We will see at this Saturday's Oly.  I am planning my race strategy around bringing home the last 5k.  If I do not break 50 minutes I will never run again.  Not really, but I'll be disappointed.

Good luck with your HIM training and stay healthy.

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