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2013-11-29 1:03 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by switch

Yes, pg 42 discussion seems to suggest just one a week.

This page also discusses Dr. Billat's VO2 max training.  I hadn't registered that name, but ended up doing a "Billats" workout from TR the other day as I searched for VO2 max workouts, and one of the ones it suggested was Lafaytte.  Here's the description from TR:

6 sets of 8x15/15 Reduced Amplitude Billats (15s @ 125% FTP/15s floats @ 88% FTP) with extended 30-second floats after every set of 2 Billats offer a crack at 12 minutes spent at/near pVO2max. 5 minutes of recovery separate each set.

Goals

The goal of any Billat workout is to improve both your aerobic efficiency and aerobic power. By working very hard for brief intervals but only recovering for very short periods of time, these microintervals are extremely effective at improving your ability to sustain and repeat efforts well above FTP. This improved aerobic capacity & power will also raise your sustainable power and gradually increase your FTP.

Anybody else doing these shorter reps?  Is there an advantage of one over the other or is VO2 max work VO2 max work?

 

I'm waiting for Ben to chime in on this...

A while back, I was asking in the SBR Utopia mentor group about how to structure VO2max workouts.  I was doing something like 15-20 x 1min @ 120% and I believe the general consensus was that it would be better to do longer intervals (say 3-8 minutes) at a manageable power output, but ensuring that it's still within VO2max zone (so 106-120%).  Lately, I've been targeting 4min intervals @ 110%, which have gone well but are painful!  For my next VO2max workout, I'll probably try to do 4:30 or 5 minute intervals at 110% -- basically working my way up in time as I'm able to complete them successfully.  

I know I posted this link before (probably in this thread!), but I found it quite useful: http://rundynamics2.webs.com/DRFintervals.pdf

Also, those Billats intervals seem to be more geared toward anaerobic power than VO2max.  Personally, I don't do a lot (any, really) anaerobic-type workouts as it's not something I really feel like I gain much from.  If I were road racing, I certainly would, as I know sprinting is not a strength of mine.  But for triathlons, anaerobic power output doesn't seem entirely important to me.  I'd rather spend my time working on increasing my FTP and ability to ride for long periods without fatiguing myself (so stuff like sweet spot, endurance, tempo type rides).  I do work VO2max as there comes a point when you have to "raise the roof (VO2max) to raise the ceiling (FTP)" and I'm kind of in that region with respect to my 5min power vs 20min power. 

I remember reading that when we read the JD book, but I'm confused why TR pops this up as a VO2 max workout then.  Hmmm.  I wonder if it's because the work bouts are short and at 125% and the float 88% are 1:1 and that averages to 106.5%?

Most of the work I see towards VO2 does does tend to be more evenly paced with a bit larger intervals. Not quite getting all the benefits of this type of design yet, will have to read it over again and probably look around some. I think the more steadier designed ones are easier to understand, considerably easier for many. And therefore easier to execute. I have done some short interval work, but it was more to open things up, get used to working hard again, than to truly be a VO2 focused workout even though it would stress that some. Mostly something like 15s/15s for a total of 5-10 minutes at 150% on / 50% off. Every once in awhile I'll do Revolver's 1' on 1' off. The multi-level aspect of Skiba's workout is interesting. 6 x 4' with the on parts also be multi-phase. Kind of on and partly down, but not all the way. Daniels seems to assume that the ups and down of the VO2 plot is along a fixed path, maybe it was for simplicity in understanding, but haven't seen otherwise from him yet. Skiba has said on ST that it's variable. The higher you work, the faster it goes up. Just a bit over threshold and it'll get there, but could be awhile. And if the rest effort is still high up, the rate of recovery is slowed, as in one does not recover as fast.



2013-12-07 12:00 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

The consistently strong, but not all in riding seems to be working. 304 NP for just under 2 hrs, done to ISLAGIATT.

2013-12-07 1:01 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

Originally posted by brigby1

The consistently strong, but not all in riding seems to be working. 304 NP for just under 2 hrs, done to ISLAGIATT.

Wow, strong work!  When you ride ISLAGIATT, do you do all the sprints / attacks?  I tried the ride a couple times and failed miserably at it....then I decided to try it without all the sprints and made it through (was still an incredibly hard ride!).  I think my trying without the sprints was inspired by you telling me that I should modify the ride (as needed) to fit with what I wanted to be focusing on.  Those sprints just kill me, and are honestly not something I'm too concerned with improving on. 

2013-12-07 1:23 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

I'll most always change the pace to some degree, following along with what they have. How much depends on what I want out of the ride. When I want to follow what they have, I'll use 0.5 = ~5%FTP. Or maybe just 15 watts as it's easier. Was closer to this today. But most of the time I'll be more flat. I'll concentrate more on the average for the interval and just use maybe 5-10 watts for 0.5. The parts I consider truly attacking more so are the 9 & 10's. Most times I'll ignore them for the most part and just do 8-8.5 territory. Might hit one once in awhile, but not all of them. Today I did push it more and hit more about where a 9 should be. Didn't really do a 10 as such outside of the very last last one.

It's nice to hit the attacks every once in awhile as it is an adaptation that can help in varying terrain, but it's much more important to hit the overall ride where it's supposed to be done for you.

Don't know if you've seen, but I have picked up doing some hard surges in some of the easier rides. Like 8-10 sec every 10 minutes or so at 120-150%. It's really not that stressful and seems to help keep the exposure to higher power. And if it is stressful, then I need to watch how much I'm doing overall as the training load is getting to me. It can take couple times of that before it feels like I'm opening up ok, but should be good by the 3rd-5th one.

2014-03-11 9:35 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

I decided to borrow a friend's PT for my Saturday ride to see what using a powermeter outdoors is like.  I definitely learned somethings:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/459133542

Some observations

1. My power curve past 15 seconds was completely overwritten by this ride.

2. It's really easy to get up to 200% FTP when going up a hill.

3. I feel like Trainerroad has been underestimating my efforts.  My FTP according to TR is 225, and I averaged 226 for this ride.  

#3 I'm ok with, as TR still gives me something tangible to shoot for, and since I don't race or train outdoors with power, it's more about getting the workout in than having the power number dialed down.  Using even virtual power added to my training quality.  

 

 

2014-03-12 10:37 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

Well that's good to see. It's not often, but have seen a couple times where TR seemed to actually underestimate.



2014-03-12 10:42 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

Originally posted by brigby1

Well that's good to see. It's not often, but have seen a couple times where TR seemed to actually underestimate.

Yeah I'd almost rather underestimate it.  I remember a study that was done with cyclists where their visual output was intentionally 5% lower, and they manged to push 5% harder to compensate without realizing it.  Hopefully I was getting a similar effect.

2014-03-14 7:38 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Oct 15-Nov 15 "Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power" Book Club

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by brigby1

Well that's good to see. It's not often, but have seen a couple times where TR seemed to actually underestimate.

Yeah I'd almost rather underestimate it.  I remember a study that was done with cyclists where their visual output was intentionally 5% lower, and they manged to push 5% harder to compensate without realizing it.  Hopefully I was getting a similar effect.

Yeah, I remember reading that too. And also think it's very real. It can also help keep your focus and determination going strong to try and build up the difference. It gives you something more to go after, and I think more people tend to be better in that situation than when being ahead, trying to maintain a lead. Sometimes I wonder on mine, but the speeds are still making sense. Actual power and all rides on a trainer. Calibrating every time (technically zeroing).

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