General Discussion Triathlon Talk » recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training Rss Feed  
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2013-09-12 6:19 AM

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Subject: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Hi BTers.

I've done 2 sprints, a half marathon & I want to do an IM.
I have almost no desire to do a HIM, except I realize it may be necessary...but the pull isn't there like it is for the full.

I'm a slow girl, but I'm interested in finishing, not placing.

Has anyone here done this kind of thing? Am I coo-coo?
Wise words from the sages please. Seems like 11 months would be time enough.


I fell asleep dreaming about registering for IMLOU....

Shalom!


2013-09-12 8:13 AM
in reply to: CurvyJew

Chicago
Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training

I'm in the same boat. I've done one Olympic and am a marathoner. I'm slow. Didn't do a half-marathon before going for a full. A 70.3 doesn't have the same appeal as iron-distance. I think you know you best. Have you plugged your "all day" paces into a triathlon calculator to figure out your range of possible finish times? Are you cool with financial and time situation for training? 

Right now I'm trying to decide whether I want to do Louisville or the Rev 3 race at Cedar Point...so maybe we'll end up seeing each other on race day? 

11 months is a long time. Work on your weakness. I just joined a tri club so I have a group to regularly OWS with. 

You'll get a lot of people who think you're coo-coo for cocoa puffs. Ignore them. Or listen to them. I mean, be aware of what you're getting yourself into and no whining afterwards. But I know what you mean about falling asleep thinking about that specific goal. Whatever gets you out of bed in the morning trying to lead a healthy, active lifestyle is the key. 

2013-09-12 9:10 AM
in reply to: CurvyJew

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training

Started my first triathlon training in 2006.  Wasn't a swimmer, just tooled around on the bike as a means of fun transportation around the town, and was more of a short-distance runner and did a couple of half-marathons.

My first race was a HIM, and my second was an IM in 2007.  You want to talk about being coo-coo?

I just finished my 3rd IM this past weekend at the age of 48 (but I look like I'm in my 30s).

11 months is MORE than enough time to train.  I HIGHLY suggest looking for a training plan, and hopefully, a coach to keep you motivated and focused, and to work on swim drills for improving that aspect.

Work on nutrition, BALANCE with family/social life, and rest.  Rest during training IS important since that is how you recover and build muscle and improve.

GOOD LUCK!

2013-09-12 10:32 AM
in reply to: 1stTimeTri

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
I was in the same boat in 2012. I hadn't really raced in years but wanted to do IMFLA on 11 months training. One thing i would say is that it depends on your goalS. If you are trying to enjoy the race experience and just finish with a +13-14 or hour or more time you can totally do it AND have fun in the process.

My goal was just to finish and take in the experience. So I set my training based on that and it was awesome!

A word of caution though, make sure you ramp up your running slowly. I tired to jump in too quickly and build long miles too fast. Your body definitely needs time to build strength to support the pounding it will take. I had no problem at all building up the bike, swim and overall endurance though in 11 months.


If you have the IM bug and the time to train, I'd say go for it!!!!
2013-09-12 10:52 AM
in reply to: CurvyJew

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Alpharetta, Georgia
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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training

What are your current paces for swim/bike/run? 

I am also slower, finishing my three IM races between 15 and a little over 16 hours. Slow is okay, assuming you are not in danger of missing cut-offs, as long as endurance is there. 

For reference in the IM distance I am about a 1:20 (1:55/100yd) swimmer, 7:30-7:45 (14.5-15mph) biker, and 6:00-6:15 (13-14 minute miles average) runner. 

2013-09-12 1:53 PM
in reply to: NewfangledDad

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
I love your response!

Let's see-I haven't plugged in my all day paces, but that's a great idea!

Financially-I can swing it. Time wise-I work for myself and make my own schedule. I have a shower at my office too! Perfect right?


2013-09-12 1:57 PM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
We are totally in the same pace group!
My swim in a little slower (2:20) but I haven't done any drills or speed work in a year or so.

Thanks for sharing your times.
2013-09-12 1:59 PM
in reply to: pjcycles63

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
So inspiring! Thank you!

2013-09-12 2:49 PM
in reply to: NeedleDoc

Chicago
Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Keep us updated! I'll be curious to hear what training plan you go with, etc. And you never know, maybe we'll end up in line for the TT swim along the Ohio! Good luck. 
2013-09-13 9:02 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Originally posted by lisac957

What are your current paces for swim/bike/run? 

I am also slower, finishing my three IM races between 15 and a little over 16 hours. Slow is okay, assuming you are not in danger of missing cut-offs, as long as endurance is there. 

For reference in the IM distance I am about a 1:20 (1:55/100yd) swimmer, 7:30-7:45 (14.5-15mph) biker, and 6:00-6:15 (13-14 minute miles average) runner. 




lisac957, what training plans did you follow for the IM?
2013-09-13 9:08 AM
in reply to: CurvyJew

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
I've done one sprint tri, and I'm doing IMWI 2014.

However, I run alot and bike alot... riding 112 miles is nothing spectacular for me, however, I'm sure it will be hard, but it's far from impossible for me, I ride a ton of centuries over the summer. I've also run two marathons, am running Chicago this year, so running doesn't scare me.

What scares me is the swim!, although I'm a good swimmer... being confident and getting my time under 2:20 will be where alot of my work is and putting all three legs together to finish this race.

I'm excited... I'm 51yo, feel stronger than I ever have... and my time is running out, so I'm doing it now!!


2013-09-13 9:14 AM
in reply to: tarmac52

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Alpharetta, Georgia
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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Originally posted by tarmac52
Originally posted by lisac957

What are your current paces for swim/bike/run? 

I am also slower, finishing my three IM races between 15 and a little over 16 hours. Slow is okay, assuming you are not in danger of missing cut-offs, as long as endurance is there. 

For reference in the IM distance I am about a 1:20 (1:55/100yd) swimmer, 7:30-7:45 (14.5-15mph) biker, and 6:00-6:15 (13-14 minute miles average) runner. 

lisac957, what training plans did you follow for the IM?

For my first I followed a plan from Matt Fitzgerald's book "Essential Week By Week Training Guide" - it offers 10 levels of plans for every distance of race. I think I did the IM level 3 or 4. The 2nd one I hired a coach and he wrote a custom plan for me - and I followed that one again for my 3rd.

2013-09-13 9:27 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Originally posted by lisac957

Originally posted by tarmac52
Originally posted by lisac957

What are your current paces for swim/bike/run? 

I am also slower, finishing my three IM races between 15 and a little over 16 hours. Slow is okay, assuming you are not in danger of missing cut-offs, as long as endurance is there. 

For reference in the IM distance I am about a 1:20 (1:55/100yd) swimmer, 7:30-7:45 (14.5-15mph) biker, and 6:00-6:15 (13-14 minute miles average) runner. 

lisac957, what training plans did you follow for the IM?

For my first I followed a plan from Matt Fitzgerald's book "Essential Week By Week Training Guide" - it offers 10 levels of plans for every distance of race. I think I did the IM level 3 or 4. The 2nd one I hired a coach and he wrote a custom plan for me - and I followed that one again for my 3rd.




great thanks!! I 'might' be interested in a coach, but geez, totally overwhelming on how to find one, ugggh! I'll check that book out though. thanks!
2013-09-13 2:44 PM
in reply to: tarmac52

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Read "Going Long" by Friel and Byrne. It covers this topic.
2013-09-13 4:37 PM
in reply to: tarmac52

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training

Seize the day, right?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
2013-09-13 9:19 PM
in reply to: CurvyJew

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training

In general, it would be my recommendation to have a solid fitness base before signing up for an IM...even if it's 11 months out.  Solid as in having the experience in training volume that is similar to a HIM.  Don't actually have to race a HIM...but be used to and comfortable with 10+ hours a week of training.

By no means a requirement, but that would at least be my recommendation.



2013-09-14 2:11 AM
in reply to: CurvyJew

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
well motivation is mostly the driving factor.

go for what you want ! You've got experience doing tri's, now it's the LONG one.

be prepared to get very very dedicated to a 6 month training schedule.

I'd chime in with a recommendation to do a HIM first, but again motivation is a BIG factor in my book.

so pick your race, pick your plan and GO.
2013-09-14 5:01 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training

One of the hardest parts of IM is showing up race day injury free. I've done 4....2 injury free.

How much consistent training have you done? How realistic is it for your to bump that up to 10 hours a week in off season and rising from there. Will training, tiredness, lifestyle fit into your work, romantic, friend, family life well?

This year were you consistent in your training? FOllowed a plan and missed few sessions?

I worry about new to the sport folks jumping right into the IM training level without a significant base of fitness or longevity in doing a sport. Yes it can be done, but it is harder on both your mind and body.

Think of your motivation, is it big enough, excite you enough to help you change to move fitness up from priority to necessity.

Being a slower triathlete means time cut offs are real, so being as well trained as possible is important come race day.

Know IMKY doesn't fill for months so there is no urgency to sign up soon. For 2013 it was open 3 weeks before the race.

Be smart about thinking this thru. I know how easy it is to get sucked into the excitement and vortex of IM.

2013-09-14 7:27 AM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Originally posted by KathyG

One of the hardest parts of IM is showing up race day injury free. I've done 4....2 injury free.

How much consistent training have you done? How realistic is it for your to bump that up to 10 hours a week in off season and rising from there. Will training, tiredness, lifestyle fit into your work, romantic, friend, family life well?

This year were you consistent in your training? FOllowed a plan and missed few sessions?

I worry about new to the sport folks jumping right into the IM training level without a significant base of fitness or longevity in doing a sport. Yes it can be done, but it is harder on both your mind and body.

Think of your motivation, is it big enough, excite you enough to help you change to move fitness up from priority to necessity.

Being a slower triathlete means time cut offs are real, so being as well trained as possible is important come race day.

Know IMKY doesn't fill for months so there is no urgency to sign up soon. For 2013 it was open 3 weeks before the race.

Be smart about thinking this thru. I know how easy it is to get sucked into the excitement and vortex of IM.





As usual Kathy give the best advice .

it's one thing having a dream about doing Ironman but another thing putting it into reality. be aware that training is going to take some very large chunks out of your time - even more than you had imagined. As a slower bike rider my rides were taking up to 10 hours including rest stops and food stops - that's a long time..........even more so when you need to run for 3 hours the next day . You family and friends quickly become very tired of you!

Having said that , if the motivation is there and you feel that you can make the cut off times then go for it- just be aware that it is a huge commitment over a long time and you really can't afford to miss many workouts at all.
2013-09-14 10:20 AM
in reply to: slowbuthappy

Chicago
Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Maybe I'm just coming to it from a different place. But I always have liked Raymond Britt's advice about "how much time does it take to train for an Ironman?" And his answer is "not as much as you think." I know some people train for 20 hours a week, but his weekly avg for Ironman training is 6 with a peak of maybe 10. And he qualified for Kona on that! lol Everybody's different. I know the Fitzgerald plan I'm using starts off Week 1 with only about 5 hours for me. Yes, when those 70 mile rides pop up later in the schedule I know I need to clear my weekend. But on average that's not the kind of time I'll need. YMMV. 
2013-09-14 11:07 AM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Smart advice given here. Keep in mind, this is a team sport. I have just finished training for IM Lake Tahoe. My training schedule has impacted my wife, my children and my business associates. Granted, I talked to each one before registering, but no one knows what its like until they have done it. If you are single and self supported/sufficient then maybe its different. That has not been my reality. I will not do another one for at least a year and maybe not again at all due to an injury. That being said, I am happy to be doing one now.


2013-09-14 6:30 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Originally posted by Jason N

In general, it would be my recommendation to have a solid fitness base before signing up for an IM...even if it's 11 months out.  Solid as in having the experience in training volume that is similar to a HIM.  Don't actually have to race a HIM...but be used to and comfortable with 10+ hours a week of training.

By no means a requirement, but that would at least be my recommendation.

I tend to think something like that too. It's not the IM directly, but the workload in the training to look at. Do you have enough experience to handle both the volume planned and the larger workouts planned for the IM. Handling the workload of on HIM is probably a good start, even if one does not actually do the HIM. It tends to work better if one can go beyond just meeting the starting workouts for the IM plan, but is actually backing down at this point. Or has done a bigger load than that in the past. The start should be rather easy.

2013-09-15 1:41 AM
in reply to: CurvyJew

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training

Originally posted by NeedleDoc Hi BTers. I've done 2 sprints, a half marathon & I want to do an IM. I have almost no desire to do a HIM, except I realize it may be necessary...but the pull isn't there like it is for the full. I'm a slow girl, but I'm interested in finishing, not placing. Has anyone here done this kind of thing? Am I coo-coo? Wise words from the sages please. Seems like 11 months would be time enough. I fell asleep dreaming about registering for IMLOU.... Shalom!

I'm in almost the same situation as you: I've only done one official Olympic Triathlon and one Marathon and I just signed up for Ironman Canada 2014.  Only 10 and a half months to train.

In my opinion the issue isn't what events you have done in the past it's how committed you are to training over the next 11 months.

Personally so far this year I've put in 198 hours of training (147 hours running, 41 biking and 9 hours swimming  (It's pretty obvious where my strength and opportunities lie)) and I'm committed to At Least doubling that in the next 10 months.   So I'm confident I should be ok.

If you are willing and able to put in the time then I say Do It. 

2013-09-16 11:55 AM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Originally posted by KathyG

One of the hardest parts of IM is showing up race day injury free. I've done 4....2 injury free.

How much consistent training have you done? How realistic is it for your to bump that up to 10 hours a week in off season and rising from there. Will training, tiredness, lifestyle fit into your work, romantic, friend, family life well?

This year were you consistent in your training? FOllowed a plan and missed few sessions?

I worry about new to the sport folks jumping right into the IM training level without a significant base of fitness or longevity in doing a sport. Yes it can be done, but it is harder on both your mind and body.

Think of your motivation, is it big enough, excite you enough to help you change to move fitness up from priority to necessity.

Being a slower triathlete means time cut offs are real, so being as well trained as possible is important come race day.

Know IMKY doesn't fill for months so there is no urgency to sign up soon. For 2013 it was open 3 weeks before the race.

Be smart about thinking this thru. I know how easy it is to get sucked into the excitement and vortex of IM.

As always, Kathy is the voice of reason....my concern has a little to do with you not wanting to do a 70.3. It's ok to not like a particular distance, and you are entitled but as KAthy said, the jump up in training volume is huge with a IM....so if you are going from essentialy a running base and some smaller tris to an IM , you will need to take that big leap also trying to avoid injury.

Now if your lifestyle allows you tremendous amounts of free time to train, then never mind and get going asap and build up that fitness.

My quick story was in 2010 when I was new to tri specific training  I planned to do my first HIM at the end of 2011 and a IM in 2012.....well I trained an entire year and finished my HIM and it was a sufferfest and I knew I had to "shelf" the IM idea for another year to build the fitness to be ready for the rigors of a IM......well thankfully this year I accomplished it at LP

So , can you do it? yes.....noone knows your life schedule and current fitness as well as yourself and people close to you....get a plan to accomplish it and look at your life schedule and be sure you can devote the time....if so, go for it and good luck.....if not, then take your time and build up for it in another year.

I understand some people are enamored about the IM distance and they want to get it done ASAP, but you do want to do it safely also

 

good luck

2013-09-17 11:20 AM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: recommended experience and pace before beginning IM Training
Originally posted by KathyG

One of the hardest parts of IM is showing up race day injury free. I've done 4....2 injury free.

How much consistent training have you done? How realistic is it for your to bump that up to 10 hours a week in off season and rising from there. Will training, tiredness, lifestyle fit into your work, romantic, friend, family life well?

This year were you consistent in your training? FOllowed a plan and missed few sessions?

I worry about new to the sport folks jumping right into the IM training level without a significant base of fitness or longevity in doing a sport. Yes it can be done, but it is harder on both your mind and body.

Think of your motivation, is it big enough, excite you enough to help you change to move fitness up from priority to necessity.

Being a slower triathlete means time cut offs are real, so being as well trained as possible is important come race day.

Know IMKY doesn't fill for months so there is no urgency to sign up soon. For 2013 it was open 3 weeks before the race.

Be smart about thinking this thru. I know how easy it is to get sucked into the excitement and vortex of IM.

X4 on all this, and I'll add some more.

It's more and more common for beginners to look at Ironman distance races and fail to respect the distance.  An IM is a long, long day with a long swim, a long bike, and a long, long run.  Yet there are so many IM finishers here on BT and elsewhere that it's easy to think "how hard can it be, really?"  It is hard.  It's very hard.  It's very, very hard to change your life to fit in the necessary training, avoid serious injury, work through the small injuries you can't avoid, and arrive on IM race day fit and trained and ready.  If you are properly trained, then that race day is going to be easier than you thought.  If you're not properly trained, then the day will suck in ways you can't imagine.

 

Originally posted by NeedleDoc Hi BTers. I've done 2 sprints, a half marathon & I want to do an IM. I have almost no desire to do a HIM, except I realize it may be necessary...but the pull isn't there like it is for the full. I'm a slow girl, but I'm interested in finishing, not placing. Has anyone here done this kind of thing? Am I coo-coo? Wise words from the sages please. Seems like 11 months would be time enough. I fell asleep dreaming about registering for IMLOU.... Shalom!

You could get from there to "just finishing" an Ironman race in 11 months, but chances are you won't.  Unless you have a strong fitness base beyond that, you have a ton of work ahead of you to get to IM day confident and ready to go. 

You asked about recommended experience and pace in your title, so my answer is "you have to have strength in two of the three legs, then you can work on the other".   So what is enough strength?  Here's my opnion:

Running: This is the hard part of IM.  Yes, people say you can walk the run, but really, it's a run not a walk, and time cut-offs are very real.  You say you've done a open half marathon which is child's play compared to an IM run.  And btw, it's a run, not a marathon - there is zero similarity between an IM run and an open marathon except the length is 26.2 miles.  If you can finish an open marathon is say 4 hours, you're ready to tackle IM.  That indicates a running base and cardio fitness needed for the 12-16 hour IM race day. 

Swimming: Swimming is a technique sport and it takes a lot of time to get fast.  You don't have to be fast, but you have to be able to go long. Swimming is dangerous. People die.  Do you swim 3-4 times a week, 40-60 minutes per outing? Is your T-pace less than or equal to 2:00?  If so, you're ready for IM training.

Cycling: Cycling is easy to train for but it's the longest leg of the race by far, and poor cycling ability hurts the run for so many people.  The IM run course is dotted with walkers who planned to run but cooked themselves on the bike.  Can you complete a century with a 16 mph average?  If so, you're ready for IM training.

Again, you don't need all 3 of the above but you need 2.  If you have one or none, well, seize the day and all that but wow what a mountain to climb.

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