General Discussion Triathlon Talk » When to secure a coach? Rss Feed  
Moderators: jmk-brooklyn, Ron Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
2013-09-20 10:05 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

User image


104
100
Subject: RE: When to secure a coach?
Shane,

I know I'm raining on the parade since the only way to scale the triathlon coaching model and make a living is to do it remotely. I'm offering my view of the limitations of that model after seeing it in action for the past couple of years. I never the made statement that remote coaching was bad or ineffective. Just that if you can find a good local coach you are going to get better results.

No, I don't have any studies that compare the outcomes of remote coaching versus in person coaching. I'm basing it on 20+ years of coaching experience.

"There are even situations where a remote coach will have greater insight into an athlete than if they were training with them. Technology affords great insight into workouts and a coach should have a much better handle on a remote athlete's progress who trains with power than a local athlete who is only using HR. "

I would be careful with having too much faith in technology and data alone. There was a great article in the Harvard Business Review a couple years ago about companies being able to generate huge amounts of data and information about the performance of a company. Managers started to rely solely on this data for making decisions and stopped going into the field to see what was behind the data. What the article demonstrated was these managers started to make bad decisions, because the data couldn't give them the whole picture of what was going on.

When I'm coaching athletes in the pool I'm looking at the pace clock and my stop watch to see what their times are for the set, their HR at different intervals and looking at the history of workouts that they have done. That is all information that can be gained remotely. Here is what a remote coach misses: I'm watching their respiration rates, their movement in the water, the knowledge of what their stroke looks like on a regular basis, their body position in the water, the color of their shoulders on hard sets, how they respond to increase physical and mental stresses in the workout, ability to adjust the workout on the spot based on how they are doing, changes in stroke patterns, ability to push them when they need to push, ability to get them to back off when they need to back off. Typically, I rely more on the information that you would miss than the information gained remotely.

I never wrote that remote coaching isn't effective. I merely stated that in person coaching can produce a lot better results.

Best regards,

Tim Floyd


2013-09-21 7:12 AM
in reply to: snappingt

User image

Champion
9010
500020002000
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: When to secure a coach?
Originally posted by snappingt

Shane,

I know I'm raining on the parade since the only way to scale the triathlon coaching model and make a living is to do it remotely. I'm offering my view of the limitations of that model after seeing it in action for the past couple of years. I never the made statement that remote coaching was bad or ineffective. Just that if you can find a good local coach you are going to get better results.


Certaining not raining on my parade; scaling my coaching business has never really been my concern but rather providing high quality, evidence based coaching to my athletes. Of course there are limitations to remote coaching but many of these can be overcome with the use of technology and good communication between coach and athlete. Further, it is unrealistic to assume that a coach will be training with an athlete for all of their sessions so even a local coach will be doing some remote coaching of their athletes.

Beyond that, as I said many athletes will not even have access to a good local coach so then the question becomes go with a good remote coach or a fair to poor local coach; in that case, it is unlikely the local coach will see better results.

No, I don't have any studies that compare the outcomes of remote coaching versus in person coaching. I'm basing it on 20+ years of coaching experience.


While I certainly agree that in person coaching seems like it would make the most sense, we often see that intuition is wrong. Like you, I have more than two decades of coaching experience, including seven years with some remote coaching of athletes. I have seen great successes and great challenges with both methods and would certainly not say that in person coaching is always going to be superior.

I would be careful with having too much faith in technology and data alone. There was a great article in the Harvard Business Review a couple years ago about companies being able to generate huge amounts of data and information about the performance of a company. Managers started to rely solely on this data for making decisions and stopped going into the field to see what was behind the data. What the article demonstrated was these managers started to make bad decisions, because the data couldn't give them the whole picture of what was going on.


What I learn about my athletes comes from the data they provide; both empirical and anecdotal; while there are some things that I can't see when I'm not at a session, with good communication with athletes I will see both the numbers and learn about how the athlete is feeling and challenges they are facing. It is much more complicated than simply looking at the numbers and developing the next week of training.

When I'm coaching athletes in the pool I'm looking at the pace clock and my stop watch to see what their times are for the set, their HR at different intervals and looking at the history of workouts that they have done. That is all information that can be gained remotely. Here is what a remote coach misses: I'm watching their respiration rates, their movement in the water, the knowledge of what their stroke looks like on a regular basis, their body position in the water, the color of their shoulders on hard sets, how they respond to increase physical and mental stresses in the workout, ability to adjust the workout on the spot based on how they are doing, changes in stroke patterns, ability to push them when they need to push, ability to get them to back off when they need to back off. Typically, I rely more on the information that you would miss than the information gained remotely.


And the technical aspects of swimming are why I encourage my athletes to swim with a masters program with a coach on deck. If someone is technically sound, then it is easier to provide them with swim workouts and leave them to provide feedback but I still prefer to have athletes swimming with a coach.

I never wrote that remote coaching isn't effective. I merely stated that in person coaching can produce a lot better results.


You may not have said that it isn't effective but you did question if that was even coaching which seems to equate to the same thing. It may not be right for you and your athletes but that certainly doesn't mean that it is not coaching.

Shane
2013-09-21 7:38 AM
in reply to: snappingt

User image

Champion
6959
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: When to secure a coach?
Originally posted by snappingt

Shane,


When I'm coaching athletes in the pool I'm looking at the pace clock and my stop watch to see what their times are for the set, their HR at different intervals and looking at the history of workouts that they have done. That is all information that can be gained remotely. Here is what a remote coach misses: I'm watching their respiration rates, their movement in the water, the knowledge of what their stroke looks like on a regular basis, their body position in the water, the color of their shoulders on hard sets, how they respond to increase physical and mental stresses in the workout, ability to adjust the workout on the spot based on how they are doing, changes in stroke patterns, ability to push them when they need to push, ability to get them to back off when they need to back off. Typically, I rely more on the information that you would miss than the information gained remotely.

I never wrote that remote coaching isn't effective. I merely stated that in person coaching can produce a lot better results.

Best regards,

Tim Floyd


I will agree that on the pool deck, these things are easily observed. Now lets add in the other aspects of Triathlon (transition, bike & run). How does your model extend to those disciplines?

Scaling is an interesting thing when it comes to cost, for sure. But when you combine data (assuming properly inputted), comments given directly after a workout and communication such as Skyp/Face Time there is very little difference. I would even go so far as to say it might be better because the athlete can now have a life that does not focus purely on Triathlon but instead has a flexible schedule.

So there are both benefits and downfalls to in person coaching just like remote coaching. I've had success with my remote and local clients and some local clients that I rarely saw. So better results are subjective.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » When to secure a coach? Rss Feed  
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Do you feel secure running alone at night? Pages: 1 2 3

Started by GatorDeb
Views: 3563 Posts: 61

2013-09-20 9:27 AM fujione

Secure storage for "stuff" when parking bike

Started by BikerGrrrl
Views: 466 Posts: 7

2012-05-14 7:23 PM thebigb

Securing Tube in XLAB Carbon Wing

Started by windandsurf
Views: 848 Posts: 8

2011-09-17 6:49 AM JoePetto

Securing bike over night in transition (wind in forecast)

Started by bradaskins
Views: 648 Posts: 9

2011-09-04 4:30 PM bradaskins

How secure are bikes at races?

Started by vonschnapps
Views: 468 Posts: 5

2006-03-30 3:52 PM ChuckyFinster
RELATED ARTICLES
date : April 15, 2010
author : EndurancePlanet
comments : 0
This month we talk with gsmacleod, aka Coach Shane MacLeod on his coaching philosophy, his approach to gadgets, training plans, missed workouts and strength training.
 
date : September 14, 2008
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Receive online triathlon coaching via our forums, personal coaching through an affiliated coach or nutrition coaching from our certified nutritionist.
date : September 14, 2008
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Details on how athletes can connect with registered BT coaches for training plans and personal triathlon coaching.
 
date : September 14, 2008
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Details on how to use the 'Coaching System' to coach your athletes.
date : May 3, 2005
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 1
Swimming and golf can both present you with a meditative-like form of exercise that I have found to be both fulfilling and fun!
 
date : February 16, 2005
author : trilover
comments : 0
Byrn won’t hold your hand through the long hours and miles required finishing or for success in an IM, he can only show you how to get there. The work is up to you.
date : September 4, 2004
author : Daniel Clout
comments : 0
How to choose a coach? A summary of three 'types' of coaches and the pros and cons of each.
 
date : August 31, 2004
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
Kevin Koskella of www.TriSwimCoach.com gives his introduction on how he became a swim coach.