General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon? Rss Feed  
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2013-09-20 10:36 PM

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Master
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Subject: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
0-15
16-17
18-19
20-24
25-29
30-34
35-39
40-44
45-49
50-54
55-59
60-64
65-69
70-74
75-79
80-84
85+
Clyde
Athena
Overall M
Overall F

By my count that is a possible 120 AG medals up for grabs at every race.

If I show up to a local sprint with 300 participants close to half of the people get an AG award? Is this just taking the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality just a little too far? Even in decent sized races lots of people less popular age groups taking home a medal just for finishing. A lot of age groups don't even have three participants at many smaller races. Isn't this a little pointless since we're all getting a finisher's medal anyway?






Edited by JZig 2013-09-20 10:37 PM


2013-09-20 11:19 PM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
No, because there is no guarantee how many will show up in which age groups by race day. In my last sprint, there was 129 in my age group (35-39M), which is a far cry from "everyone getting a medal." I know that's a popular AG, but sometimes some may surprise. There were 29 in the 15-19M and 59 in the 25-29F. Sure there were only three in the 70+M group, but jeez, if I am still racing when I am over 70, I want a f-ing medal
2013-09-20 11:28 PM
in reply to: chris00nj

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Master
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
I don't disagree when it comes to larger races, but I do a lot of local events, where it just seems silly to maintain that many AGs. Does USAT give race directors any latitude when it comes to this? I think for smaller races splitting them up every 10 years seems pretty reasonable.


If I'm still racing when I'm 70, I guarantee I won't give two $h!ts about an AG award. After over 4 decades of racing, I guarantee I won't be doing it for the bling.
2013-09-20 11:43 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
No.Just my opinion

"If I'm still racing when I'm 70, I guarantee I won't give two $h!ts about an AG award. After over 4 decades of racing, I guarantee I won't be doing it for the bling"------yep, I said the same thing in 1968 but at 63 I still love the bling AND competition :-)

Edited by spearit 2013-09-20 11:59 PM
2013-09-21 12:04 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Master
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Depends on your age group. I've done races where I was fourth overall and didn't podium in my AG, because the top three women were all in my AG (40-49). On the other hand, I have a tri buddy in her mid-20's who has podiumed a couple of times for being 3rd out of three or four in her AG, and nearly last overall, almost an hour behind me in an Oly. But I wouldn't deny her her medal--at least she kinda sorta trained, showed up, and completed the event, which apparently is more than the overwhelming majority of 20-somethings around here do. Maybe medals based on the # in your age group? I realize this is hard to organize if people can register until shortly before the race.

OTOH, age groups aren't always the done thing in SE Asia. I've done events where it's just male and female; others where not even that fundamental distinction is made, and plenty where "30 and over" or "40 and over" was the oldest age category, esp. for women. Some of these are big events with several hundred to 1000+ people, many of whom are 40+, so that seems a little stingy to me.




2013-09-21 4:49 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
The number of age groups do not relate to the number of awards at races. I have been at races where there were no age group awards, only the top finishers. I have also been at races where age group awards go 5 deep. The race director tries to provide the best experience for each participant.


2013-09-21 5:17 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Start your own set of races. Give out medals as you see fit.

2013-09-21 6:29 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
It's a way to make the most people they can feel better about themselves by beating "peers".

Placing simply means those that anyone who finished ahead of me trained more or harder than I did. So what?! I have a family, several other hobbies and a job. Lets compare checkbooks..... :-)

AG brackets are meaningless IMO. You can 'win' the 35 to 39 AG but the 40 to 45 AG might have a faster time.

Only one true winner in a race, the guy that crossed the FL first. OTOH, everyone that races and does not DNF is a winner IMO. Even the DFL person is a winner in my book.
2013-09-21 6:38 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Originally posted by JZig

0-15
16-17
18-19
20-24
25-29
30-34
35-39
40-44
45-49
50-54
55-59
60-64
65-69
70-74
75-79
80-84
85+
Clyde
Athena
Overall M
Overall F

By my count that is a possible 120 AG medals up for grabs at every race.

If I show up to a local sprint with 300 participants close to half of the people get an AG award? Is this just taking the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality just a little too far? Even in decent sized races lots of people less popular age groups taking home a medal just for finishing. A lot of age groups don't even have three participants at many smaller races. Isn't this a little pointless since we're all getting a finisher's medal anyway?








Why do they lump all the Clydes and Athena's into one group? So a 50 yo Clyde has to compete against a 25 yo Clyde.

As others have said, it's the RD call to make the best race he can. I've seen a Clyde Masters division once.
2013-09-21 6:49 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?

I don't see anything wrong with it, because we're talking about amateurs.  Considering that, I think it's safe to assume that most people are doing it primarily for fun.  If they're doing it for fun, anything that makes the race more enjoyable for participants is a smart move by the RD, IMO.  Giving out more awards doesn't take away from anyone, but it means more people are having more fun, so they're more likely to continue participating, and trying to get friends and family excited about participating too.  So, I don't think it's about "everyone gets a trophy".  I think it's more about smart business.

2013-09-21 9:48 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
I have been at races that also include a M and F beginner and collegiate division, so add another 12 medals to the tally. That said, I see nothing wrong with it if the RD decides that's how he/she wants to split things up. It's certainly better than races that only award the top 3 overall, which I think is a shame in a sport with such varying age groups.


2013-09-21 10:08 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?

Originally posted by JZig 0-15 16-17 18-19 20-24 25-29 30-34 35-39 40-44 45-49 50-54 55-59 60-64 65-69 70-74 75-79 80-84 85+ Clyde Athena Overall M Overall F By my count that is a possible 120 AG medals up for grabs at every race. If I show up to a local sprint with 300 participants close to half of the people get an AG award? Is this just taking the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality just a little too far? Even in decent sized races lots of people less popular age groups taking home a medal just for finishing. A lot of age groups don't even have three participants at many smaller races. Isn't this a little pointless since we're all getting a finisher's medal anyway?

So what type of awards structure would you suggest for a race with 300 total participants?  I don't have a problem either way if they give out AG awards by individual years (ex. 30, 31, 32, 33, etc, etc) or if they make it 18-34, 35-49, 50+.  Just curious as to how you would structure it if it were your race.

2013-09-21 12:02 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Master
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Salt Lake City
Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
I'd probably choose something like:

M/F Overall
0-15
15-19
20-29
30-39
40-49
50-59
60-69
70+
2013-09-21 12:05 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Master
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Originally posted by Hot Runner

Depends on your age group. I've done races where I was fourth overall and didn't podium in my AG, because the top three women were all in my AG (40-49). On the other hand, I have a tri buddy in her mid-20's who has podiumed a couple of times for being 3rd out of three or four in her AG, and nearly last overall, almost an hour behind me in an Oly. But I wouldn't deny her her medal--at least she kinda sorta trained, showed up, and completed the event, which apparently is more than the overwhelming majority of 20-somethings around here do. Maybe medals based on the # in your age group? I realize this is hard to organize if people can register until shortly before the race.

OTOH, age groups aren't always the done thing in SE Asia. I've done events where it's just male and female; others where not even that fundamental distinction is made, and plenty where "30 and over" or "40 and over" was the oldest age category, esp. for women. Some of these are big events with several hundred to 1000+ people, many of whom are 40+, so that seems a little stingy to me.




The bolded part is what I think is a bit silly. That person already gets a medal, a finisher's medal. Have we all gotten so soft that we need TWO medals every time we go out and race to validate our awesomeness?
2013-09-21 1:26 PM
in reply to: 0

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Resident Curmudgeon
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?

If it's USAT-sactioned, the sanctioning agreement dictates the following: 

USAT requires that minimum age groups
will be five year increments starting at age
20 through the oldest competitor.

 

Not all RD's follow this requirement even though they should, and the RD is free to add additional groups if they like. Nothing dictates what if any medals or other tangible awards have to be given.



Edited by the bear 2013-09-21 1:37 PM
2013-09-21 5:40 PM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Are you in the 80+ age group and have to wait to long for your medal? Otherwise don't see why you would care who gets a medal?


2013-09-21 5:55 PM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Originally posted by JZig
The bolded part is what I think is a bit silly. That person already gets a medal, a finisher's medal. Have we all gotten so soft that we need TWO medals every time we go out and race to validate our awesomeness?


Not all races give out finishers medals. A local organization only gives out medals for the first 3 places in each age group. Then I did a 5k last week and got a medal for finishing, and a hat for my podium place.
2013-09-21 7:34 PM
in reply to: #4860660

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Yeah, and on that note, what's with the women's divisions? 1st place F is still behind the M!

/sarcasm
2013-09-21 8:37 PM
in reply to: bigevilgrape

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Originally posted by bigevilgrape

Originally posted by JZig
The bolded part is what I think is a bit silly. That person already gets a medal, a finisher's medal. Have we all gotten so soft that we need TWO medals every time we go out and race to validate our awesomeness?


Not all races give out finishers medals. A local organization only gives out medals for the first 3 places in each age group. Then I did a 5k last week and got a medal for finishing, and a hat for my podium place.
Almost none of the races here give finishers medals and there are no Clyde and Anthea divisions either (that I have ever seen). Normally first 3 in each age group get a medal.
2013-09-22 2:29 AM
in reply to: VGT

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Master
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Not sarcasm here. There's an organization that puts on several pretty popular adventure races here in Vietnam that does not distinguish between women's, men's, and co-ed teams (they're partner races; no individuals). They also put on my first tri, an X-terra. I was second woman, in the top ten overall, and got.....nothing. No finisher's medals, either. As I recall, there were medals for top five men and top three master's men, though. I beat some of the latter men who got awards. After that race and an adventure race in which my partner and I were third overall and got nothing, then I got food poisoning from the post-race sandwiches, I've boycotted their races.
2013-09-22 5:57 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?

Originally posted by JZig
Originally posted by Hot Runner Depends on your age group. I've done races where I was fourth overall and didn't podium in my AG, because the top three women were all in my AG (40-49). On the other hand, I have a tri buddy in her mid-20's who has podiumed a couple of times for being 3rd out of three or four in her AG, and nearly last overall, almost an hour behind me in an Oly. But I wouldn't deny her her medal--at least she kinda sorta trained, showed up, and completed the event, which apparently is more than the overwhelming majority of 20-somethings around here do. Maybe medals based on the # in your age group? I realize this is hard to organize if people can register until shortly before the race. OTOH, age groups aren't always the done thing in SE Asia. I've done events where it's just male and female; others where not even that fundamental distinction is made, and plenty where "30 and over" or "40 and over" was the oldest age category, esp. for women. Some of these are big events with several hundred to 1000+ people, many of whom are 40+, so that seems a little stingy to me.
The bolded part is what I think is a bit silly. That person already gets a medal, a finisher's medal. Have we all gotten so soft that we need TWO medals every time we go out and race to validate our awesomeness?

It's only silly because this example is about a competitor who isn't terribly competitive overall.  If the top three finishers in this category were all an hour faster, they would "deserve" an award, right?  It is ALL about who shows up!  Just like how very often they don't have anyone racing in those outlying divisions (both ends).



2013-09-22 6:47 AM
in reply to: VGT

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
I would actually like a separate year for each age

35
36
37
38.....

I MIGHT actually podium then!
2013-09-22 6:56 AM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Originally posted by JZig

I don't disagree when it comes to larger races, but I do a lot of local events, where it just seems silly to maintain that many AGs. Does USAT give race directors any latitude when it comes to this? I think for smaller races splitting them up every 10 years seems pretty reasonable.


If I'm still racing when I'm 70, I guarantee I won't give two $h!ts about an AG award. After over 4 decades of racing, I guarantee I won't be doing it for the bling.


I figure when I am 80, and hopefully still racing, I will finally podium for being the only one in my AG :p
2013-09-22 7:14 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
Maybe by 80 I could KQ. If I'm still alive.....maybe it wouldn't matter so much that I'm slow on the bike. At any rate, I have no quarrel with those older age groups. In my mind, anyone in their 70's or 80's who trains, shows up, and finishes a triathlon deserves some kind of medal!

Edited by Hot Runner 2013-09-22 7:16 AM
2013-09-22 7:35 AM
in reply to: #4860660

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Subject: RE: Are there too many Age Groups in Triathlon?
I don't know. I do think AG is a rather arbitrary way of classifying participants, for reasons already stated. And in some really large, branded races, I believe that grouping waves by past race performance instead would make for a safer, more enjoyable race.

However, I don't think tri would be as fun aif we were to move to a "Cat 1-5" system a la USACycling. I raced road for a year and there was definitely a different attitude in the air. Plus, for many, racing became futile after awhile because there was so little chance of moving up a category after the default graduation based on races completed. At least with AG, we have a new frame of reference every 5 years. Good for race participation, good for the sport.

Sure, it's a little silly to "win" an AG if you're the only one in it, but in the end no one is worse off. It doesn't diminish the value of anyone's achievement.
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