Can I build to a 50mi in 20weeks?

Can you do it? YES.

But reading your post, I'm not optimistic and the word "stupid" may have gone through my head. (you are not stupid, just to clarify)
My issue is your mentality which results in your injuries.

You CANNOT run ultras like you run road races and and tris. You have to throw your speed out the window. You need to run very comfortably, with the ability to eat, walk big climbs...for many, many hours.

Are you capable of that? Because with your current mentality, I think it would be a spectacular failure if you even make it to the start line healthy.

Now, don't take this as too harsh, I speak it as I've seen it. My husband is the same way (however, don't push so much that he gets injured). When wanting to do some trails it took MANY conversations of me pounding into his head to SLOW DOWN. Watch your footing, it's not about running a 7min/mi. It's about being steady when you can, not burning out by running the big climbs. Keeping in your food.

He is still fast on the trails. He ran a 5:15 50k not too long ago, on no real training. But, that is 'slow' for him compared to the road. That's the thing...you can't compare them. Apples to oranges.

So yes, I think you *can* do it, only if you drastically change your mindset.

yeah- good advice.  I've got a friend who's a pretty experienced ultra runner.  many 100 milers under his belt (buckles).  Same advice I got from him.  He added, that once he changed from marathon training to ultra training- and slowed down.  He didn't have the injury problems any more.  I really don't know if I'm emotionally ready for that or not. 

Yeah- I've seen that schedule.  Firstly- I'm a few weeks behind that in my running mileage, but my aerobic engine is there from my cycling and swimming.  

But I have a question.  there's a H/E column.  i.e. hard vs easy.  not much additional information.  I presume that the weekend long runs are all easy to very easy (unlike marathon training where I would do up to 13 miles at marathon race pace, and throw in a shorter mid-week speed work.  I presume that everything is racheted down a notch or two?  

There doesn't seem to be a real consensus on ultra training.  other than spend a lot of time on your feet.

My first thought: No, you're not. I would advise you to not do it.

If you want more in depth thoughts about this:

If you want to do one, then do ONE, a hard trail 50k. Go in with NO expectations, but try it. Maybe even try it with seeing how hard you can go. (This will be sooooo fun to see, for me. Bwwahahaha) Then decide if you want to keep trying them. Just like the road running progression. People do their first marathon (especially with mentality like you), blow up, feel like poop, then decide they love it and want to do better while not feeling like death.

No matter what, you really, really have to slow down and run a comfortable pace. When you're talking about "speed" on the trails, it's a relative term. You must gain experience. Know how to navigate the terrain. If you try to speed demon this with your mentality/personality, you're going to get hurt. And we're not talking ITB or runners knee, we're talking about broken leg. There's a reason why most of the winners and fastest ultra runners are mostly middle aged men and women. It's a sport where years of experience and knowing your body pays off. That slower-and-steady will take you farther.

I'm 32. I'm MOP in most trail races. I'm not fast. I think it's because years of road racing has granted me the endurance, I'm a strong hill walker and I go slow enough that I can eat at the aid stations then run. I start out at an 'easy' pace and regularly pass people mid-to-late race. In my last marathon I didn't get passed at all after mile 15 and passed countless runners (I mostly take the same approach to road races).

Finally, I think you should really explore yourself and why you're this way (if you care). What are you trying to prove out there? You've already BQ'd. Is being fast what matters to you or challenge your body in a new way? To me, I have nothing to prove with speed and I find the challenge on the trails, where your finish is never guaranteed. I'm kind of thinking that if you want to do a 50 for your 50th...you're 50. Get over yourself. I think getting your a$$ handed to you on some trails might do you some good. Or prove me wrong. But, I'd hate for you to get hurt.

And finally, overall, this is not a trail runner personality. People don't care about times or placing. Maybe the very few 1%. For the most part, trail runners are the most laid-back runners and people don't talk about "50mile PR's." Or PR's at all. Maybe compare finish times, but there's really no such thing since every course is SO different. Unlike the road where people seek out the flat races to PR and BQ.

Just some thoughts. (honest, but not attacking you.) Things to think about if you really want to do this.

er... I'm not quite as big of an idiot as you make me out to be.  My goal would be to finish (within the 15hr cutoff time), plan my training, pacing, nutrition, gear selection, hydration, electrolyte levels.  But only approach the starting line if I've done the training, with at least a few suitable 25-30+mi runs and weekly mileage in the 60-80mpw range (I've been there before).   I have no visions of running a 50mi as fast as I can.  And while I eschew Gallowalking for shorter races, I have no delusions that I'll probably be walking 25-50% of this. 

Haley- thanks for taking the time to look at my logs (yup- everything is there, my whole life story) and the positive tone.

Jenn:  Below is the one I've got picked out.  Because it's local, not because it's a good choice as a first Ultra.  My other option (and the smarter one), is to just train for the Mt. Lemmon marathon.  It's a road marathon that climbs ~7500 ft on at a nice smooth 4-7% paved grade most of the way.  

http://www.oldpueblo50.com/

it's trail run.  they indicate 8000ft of climbing- which is pretty serious.

I might finally be mature enough to run slowly.  My real concern is that I need another 2 months to more safely build up my mileage.  I can make it in 20w, but that's only if nothing goes wrong with the drivetrain.  Not a lot of build margin in there.

Heck- that seems almost 'easy'.  

FWIW- I had a great 15mi run this morning.  2/3'ds of it on the dirt, with 2000ft of climbing.  Knee was fine.  achilles- a little sore.

That's my longest in a while.  Feel good.  (fatigued, but good)

Status update:  12 weeks into that 20 week endeavor

Training build has been going well.  I've built carefully to over 50mpw and over 8hrs of running/wk. (the dip in the middle of the miles below was for two races, an Oly tri and a HM- so that was really my last race pace stuff)  Being sensitive to my injuries and taking rest days as necessary.  Logged 227 running miles in December, quite a bit of it on trails and with a LOT of vertical.  Feeling pretty good about that.  I read "Relentless Forward Progress" cover to cover, bought some Salomon trail shoes, a Suunto Ambit2 watch with a long battery life and that will do navigation, and a Nathan hydration pack that holds 70oz.  No speed work at all, but have added intensity during long climbs- just to keep my LT up there.  8-1/2 weeks to go to race day.  Granted, anything can happen in that amount of time, but so far, I'm on track.  Joined up with two different local trail running groups that do long mountain runs on the weekends- with a great food spread afterwards and wonderful camaraderie. 

the next 5 weeks are going to be tough ones (before a 3 week taper).  I don't have a set plan that I follow, but rather, a general outline of what I want to do, and modify it based on how I feel.  I may back down from 6 days a week running to 5 at this point, as I increase the length of my long and middle distance runs, and replace some of the recovery runs with swim and cross training.  I feel ready for a 22mi+ trail run this weekend, and then get in another two in the 25 and perhaps close to 30mi range over the next 5 weeks, with some semi-long runs on the following day if my body allows.  At 50 years old- I'm finding that I recovery pretty slowly.  Better to max out at 55-60mpw and show up at the starting line uninjured, than run 80mpw and not make to to the starting line.  We'll see.

I've fallen 4 times while running rocky trails- but so far, no serious injury.  (guess I'm good at the falling thing )  Clearly- there's a certain amount of risk that goes with this sport.  

;-)

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