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2013-10-17 12:08 PM

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Subject: Child porn and YMCA
I normally just stalk COJ and am impressed with how thoughtful responses are. I have an issue and need advice. A member of our local YMCA was arrested in late September on child pornography charges. Two days ago it was revealed in the news from an unnamed source that he allegedly hid a camera inside his gym bag and recorded children in the locker room of the YMCA. The YMCA informed its members of the arrest (not the allegation) the same day, but has not addressed any specific questions. I am sick to my stomach over this.... I have three children that utilize the Y. Two of them are on the swim team and are always changing in the locker rooms. I want more info, but not sure how to get it....and then I am scared to know the answers too. Do I want my children and I to know if their pictures are on the internet? I am not sure....
Wondering what would COJ do. Below is the link to the article

http://nj1015.com/child-porn-suspect-accused-of-getting-images-at-o...




2013-10-17 12:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

If it were me I'd let it go and move on with life with my children.  Depending on their ages, they probably have no idea about the situation.  There is nothing that can be done to get the images back if they have been sent, and following where they might have went is a job for detectives who do that type of work. Nobody is ever going to come up to you and say they saw your kids on the internet, even if he did get images of them.   It's a nasty, nasty underground world that these people inhabit.......my advice is to just get clear of it and move on. 



Edited by Left Brain 2013-10-17 12:16 PM
2013-10-17 12:56 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

^^ Agreed.

 

I don't see any possible good for you or your kids in pursuing this further.

2013-10-17 1:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

Originally posted by Left Brain

If it were me I'd let it go and move on with life with my children.  Depending on their ages, they probably have no idea about the situation.  There is nothing that can be done to get the images back if they have been sent, and following where they might have went is a job for detectives who do that type of work. Nobody is ever going to come up to you and say they saw your kids on the internet, even if he did get images of them.   It's a nasty, nasty underground world that these people inhabit.......my advice is to just get clear of it and move on. 

Exactly what my thought would be as well.

I know its tough to just "move on" from something like this, but I'd think that in the end it really would be the best course of action.  I can't see anything being gained by going another way.

 

ETA: Sorry you have to deal with this... as LB said this is a pretty nasty world, and sometimes really bad things happen to good people.



Edited by Sous 2013-10-17 1:20 PM
2013-10-17 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA
initially I was with the first two replies. But clearly you will not be able to steer clear of it. Your kids will have to be vigilant for this and worse. I guess now is a good time for the discussion. Goes something like: there was some perv in the locker room. Pervs exist. This perv was just taking pictures. Don't worry he didn't get a picture of you, he was never there when you were there (white lie, or tell the truth that you don't know). So watch your back for pervs, and if you think someone is pervy, you run, grab a responsible adult and call me.
2013-10-17 10:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

Originally posted by BigDH initially I was with the first two replies. But clearly you will not be able to steer clear of it. Your kids will have to be vigilant for this and worse. I guess now is a good time for the discussion. Goes something like: there was some perv in the locker room. Pervs exist. This perv was just taking pictures. Don't worry he didn't get a picture of you, he was never there when you were there (white lie, or tell the truth that you don't know). So watch your back for pervs, and if you think someone is pervy, you run, grab a responsible adult and call me.

I think that totally depends on the age of the kids....which the OP didn't post, and I don't blame him/her.  If the kids are young you can easily steer clear.....and personally, we were very careful not to make our children afraid of the world, or people in general, until they were old enough to understand on their own that some people are just bad.  My kids are extremely outgoing and a blast to be around.....they know all about perverts and azzholes at this point in their lives....but they first learned that people are good, and the world is a great place.

It's better to teach parents to be ever vigilant for perverts in locker rooms where you take your children.  This guy with a hidden camera in his bag likely took pictures of kids right next to their parents.....or at least while their parents were in the same locker room.  They are the most despicable human beings to walk the planet.

 



Edited by Left Brain 2013-10-17 10:14 PM


2013-10-18 7:53 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

Originally posted by Left Brain

If it were me I'd let it go and move on with life with my children.  Depending on their ages, they probably have no idea about the situation.  There is nothing that can be done to get the images back if they have been sent, and following where they might have went is a job for detectives who do that type of work. Nobody is ever going to come up to you and say they saw your kids on the internet, even if he did get images of them.   It's a nasty, nasty underground world that these people inhabit.......my advice is to just get clear of it and move on. 

 

X2

2013-10-18 10:45 AM
in reply to: ihatemyjetta

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA
Thank you everyone for your advice. I agree that leaving it alone and getting on with our lives is a better option. I also I agree that my children and I don't want to carry the burden of knowing if their pictures have been distributed since nothing can be done about it. Still stinks that there is a possibility that images of my kids are in the hands of perverts. I have a tendency to downplay events, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't acting like an ostrich with his head in the sand, and not confronting this. I still feel like my community and family has been violated, but realize I am better served by letting the experts take care of this situation. My energy would be better served by ensuring that procedures can be put in place at the YMCA to help decrease the possibility of this happening again. For example; there is 3 locker rooms (family, swim team and adult). Adults without children are only be allowed in the upstairs adult locker room, but that hasn't always been followed- even I am guilty of not always going upstairs. I will also have more discussions with my kids. I have had these talks with my older ones (11 and 9), but will now start with my 6 year old.
2013-10-18 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

Originally posted by ihatemyjetta Thank you everyone for your advice. I agree that leaving it alone and getting on with our lives is a better option. I also I agree that my children and I don't want to carry the burden of knowing if their pictures have been distributed since nothing can be done about it. Still stinks that there is a possibility that images of my kids are in the hands of perverts. I have a tendency to downplay events, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't acting like an ostrich with his head in the sand, and not confronting this. I still feel like my community and family has been violated, but realize I am better served by letting the experts take care of this situation. My energy would be better served by ensuring that procedures can be put in place at the YMCA to help decrease the possibility of this happening again. For example; there is 3 locker rooms (family, swim team and adult). Adults without children are only be allowed in the upstairs adult locker room, but that hasn't always been followed- even I am guilty of not always going upstairs. I will also have more discussions with my kids. I have had these talks with my older ones (11 and 9), but will now start with my 6 year old.

Our YMCA is set up the same.  There were occasions when I'd see the same adult, without kids, in the family locker room more than a couple times.  I was never shy about telling them to go use the adult locker room where there were no children present. (no kids under 15 allowed in that locker room)



Edited by Left Brain 2013-10-18 12:59 PM
2013-10-18 1:25 PM
in reply to: ihatemyjetta

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

Originally posted by ihatemyjetta Thank you everyone for your advice. I agree that leaving it alone and getting on with our lives is a better option. I also I agree that my children and I don't want to carry the burden of knowing if their pictures have been distributed since nothing can be done about it. Still stinks that there is a possibility that images of my kids are in the hands of perverts. I have a tendency to downplay events, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't acting like an ostrich with his head in the sand, and not confronting this. I still feel like my community and family has been violated, but realize I am better served by letting the experts take care of this situation. My energy would be better served by ensuring that procedures can be put in place at the YMCA to help decrease the possibility of this happening again. For example; there is 3 locker rooms (family, swim team and adult). Adults without children are only be allowed in the upstairs adult locker room, but that hasn't always been followed- even I am guilty of not always going upstairs. I will also have more discussions with my kids. I have had these talks with my older ones (11 and 9), but will now start with my 6 year old.

We have a similar set up but with a kids locker room, not swim team although I'd imagine it's the same concept. 

Our Y had a diferent issue with a gentleman, um....I guess we'll say touching himself while watching women workout.  Disturbing (not to the level of what you are unfortunately dealing with) and it brought about some changes throughout the facility.  Down to now if I were to  take my kids to the play room for a quick stop on the way out and I was in a position where I could look in there someone will come over every few mins to ask what I am doing.  Even if they know who it is it's still done so you don't see people hanging out there.  I would imagine there's some changes coming there that will help put people at ease.  Good luck

2013-10-18 6:47 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by BigDH initially I was with the first two replies. But clearly you will not be able to steer clear of it. Your kids will have to be vigilant for this and worse. I guess now is a good time for the discussion. Goes something like: there was some perv in the locker room. Pervs exist. This perv was just taking pictures. Don't worry he didn't get a picture of you, he was never there when you were there (white lie, or tell the truth that you don't know). So watch your back for pervs, and if you think someone is pervy, you run, grab a responsible adult and call me.

I think that totally depends on the age of the kids....which the OP didn't post, and I don't blame him/her.  If the kids are young you can easily steer clear.....and personally, we were very careful not to make our children afraid of the world, or people in general, until they were old enough to understand on their own that some people are just bad.  My kids are extremely outgoing and a blast to be around.....they know all about perverts and azzholes at this point in their lives....but they first learned that people are good, and the world is a great place.

It's better to teach parents to be ever vigilant for perverts in locker rooms where you take your children.  This guy with a hidden camera in his bag likely took pictures of kids right next to their parents.....or at least while their parents were in the same locker room.  They are the most despicable human beings to walk the planet.

 




good point.


2013-10-19 7:57 PM
in reply to: ihatemyjetta

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA
We had a situation at my son's school when he was a freshman - volunteer coach had hidden cameras in the locker room...all the families of the children were notified PRIOR to all of us being notified. I suspect the same would happen here - the authorities would notify you during the investigation. Sounds like your a parent whose aware and around your kids makes them much less likely to be a victim/target..still it's a scary world out there
2013-10-21 1:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA
Police take this very seriously.. They will go into his house and take every storage device. This would include his Garmin watch if he has one (if you can download a course, you can download your perv). It also includes a kindle, music players, cameras, computers, flash drives, and cell phones. Anything that has a memory capability will be taken into evidence. They treat these people as hackers and EXPECT them to encrypt their pictures/movies as audio files to disguise them.

They will also go to the gym and any other place he has a membership to. They will look at the log files for any child whos visit may have overlapped his visit and correspond those members names with security pictures.

Why do they do this? Because there is NOTHING worse than being a victim down the road and seeing them released from jail. Police want them locked up just as bad as any parent does.

They will also go to his ISP and phone carrier and get records of every photo he has sent to somebody and sadly, they have to look at every picture that he has ever looked at on the internet. It is an ugly job that ruins a persons faith in humanity.

They will only notify those in which they can get solid evidence to support a crime. They do not involve anybody else because it can cause psychological issues and every parent in a 200 mile radius wanting to sort through the evidence to look for their child.

The evidence is like a ticking time-bomb. If they found pics/video of your children, then they would very quickly be on your doorstep.

In other words: If the public (the gym membership) has been notified, and you never received a visit from the police, then consider yourself lucky. Chances are near 100% that nothing was transmitted and nothing was found stored of your children.

My heart goes to those who had the police knock on their door during dinner time and had to look at the evidence.


A person I know (at 13 years old) and her family had to look at the crime scene picture of her best friend after being raped, tortured, and burned on a mattress in the woods. The police have the ugly job of saying, "I know this is hard for you, but we need to catch this person. We need you to look closely at the details and let us know if you recognize things like the type of rope used or the letter opener that is stabbed in her temple..."







Edited by lifejustice 2013-10-21 1:33 PM
2013-10-21 4:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

Originally posted by lifejustice Police take this very seriously.. They will go into his house and take every storage device. This would include his Garmin watch if he has one (if you can download a course, you can download your perv). It also includes a kindle, music players, cameras, computers, flash drives, and cell phones. Anything that has a memory capability will be taken into evidence. They treat these people as hackers and EXPECT them to encrypt their pictures/movies as audio files to disguise them. They will also go to the gym and any other place he has a membership to. They will look at the log files for any child whos visit may have overlapped his visit and correspond those members names with security pictures. Why do they do this? Because there is NOTHING worse than being a victim down the road and seeing them released from jail. Police want them locked up just as bad as any parent does. They will also go to his ISP and phone carrier and get records of every photo he has sent to somebody and sadly, they have to look at every picture that he has ever looked at on the internet. It is an ugly job that ruins a persons faith in humanity. They will only notify those in which they can get solid evidence to support a crime. They do not involve anybody else because it can cause psychological issues and every parent in a 200 mile radius wanting to sort through the evidence to look for their child. The evidence is like a ticking time-bomb. If they found pics/video of your children, then they would very quickly be on your doorstep. In other words: If the public (the gym membership) has been notified, and you never received a visit from the police, then consider yourself lucky. Chances are near 100% that nothing was transmitted and nothing was found stored of your children. My heart goes to those who had the police knock on their door during dinner time and had to look at the evidence. A person I know (at 13 years old) and her family had to look at the crime scene picture of her best friend after being raped, tortured, and burned on a mattress in the woods. The police have the ugly job of saying, "I know this is hard for you, but we need to catch this person. We need you to look closely at the details and let us know if you recognize things like the type of rope used or the letter opener that is stabbed in her temple..."

Mostly my experience from an evidence collection standpoint.....except for the contacting of parents/victims in child pornography cases.  We only contact victims/parents if we are not certain of the age of a potential victim.  If we find images of children who are obviously under age, the law does not require us to bring in the victim to say, "yes, that's me", or "yes, that's my child".  Obviously that is not the same in some other types of crimes like you mentioned.....but child pornogrpahy laws do not require a victim to prosecute.....the victim is society, ie. the state.



Edited by Left Brain 2013-10-21 4:16 PM
2013-10-22 8:38 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA

I'll just add one more thing to what the others are saying.  When it comes to people being "pervy" you need to trust your gut.  Most guys (or gals) that go into the perv zone usually stick out like a sore thumb if you pay attention.  The guy who keeps walking by you at the gym while staring, probably a perv.  The guy setting a bag down near the changing room at the mall, yeah perv and look for a camera.
It's good to teach your kids to be aware of their surroundings, but you also don't want to freak them out.  As my daughter got older, I would joke with her to make sure she closes her blinds at night because of all those creepers out there.  It was done light hearted so she wasn't fearful, but she always closes her blinds.

Another important thing to remember is that the vast majority of sexual assaults happen by family and close friends.  So, trust your gut when it comes to your inner circle as well.

I council men who struggle with sexual addictions and several of them have gotten to the point where they've crossed the line by breaking the law.  If you ever see somebody doing something like this, call them on it if it's safe.  Sexual deviant behaviors often start small and escalate, so if the individual is never "caught" or challenged about his behavior then he'll often be emboldened and just continue escalating.

2013-10-22 12:14 PM
in reply to: ihatemyjetta

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Subject: RE: Child porn and YMCA
My hair stands on edge every time I read new posts to this thread. I am shocked and saddened to read how many people have had "bad people" affect their lives.


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