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2013-10-25 2:19 PM

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Subject: facts are the worst!


2013-10-25 2:29 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!

seems that the facts here are that the growth in jobs during this recovery has been more full time and fewer part time.  We still don't know what will happen, overall, when the ACA is fully implemented.

But here's what I've learned.  It doesn't matter.  The anti-Obama folks, will either pick out anectdotal evidence, find a few negative attributes, or just plain lie.  They will spend the next 3 years bashing the hell out of Obamacare, regardless of how many 10's of millions of americans will now have medical insurance coverage.  

 

2013-10-26 9:03 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!

Thank you for illustrating exactly what is wrong with political dialogue these days.... opinions and speculation stated as fact. And the one fact that is stated, is based on incomplete data. Bravo.

2013-10-28 10:15 AM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!

Originally posted by morey000

seems that the facts here are that the growth in jobs during this recovery has been more full time and fewer part time.  We still don't know what will happen, overall, when the ACA is fully implemented.

But here's what I've learned.  It doesn't matter.  The anti-Obama folks, will either pick out anectdotal evidence, find a few negative attributes, or just plain lie.  They will spend the next 3 years bashing the hell out of Obamacare, regardless of how many 10's of millions of americans will now have medical insurance coverage.  

 

OK, so please cite the source for your "fact" that the growth has been more full time and fewer part time workers.  I'll show you my source that says your "fact" is a lie.  

According to the September jobs report there are 7.9 million Americans working part time involuntarily which is twice as many as were in 2006 when the GDP drop started. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

If you look at the historical jobs reports for 2013 the number of people working part time in the U.S. grew almost four-and-a-half times as fast as the number of full-time workers. And the share of all workers who mainly hold part-time jobs is at levels not seen since the early 1980s.


Chart from (Unbelievable: 4.3 Part-Time Jobs Created for Every Full-Time Job in 2013! 

Here's another article from the Tea Party bastion HuffPo that seems to back the data.

75 Percent Of Jobs Created This Year Were Part-Time Due To Weak Economy, Obamacare Concerns

 

So, here is what I've learned.  It doesn't matter.  The pro-Obama folks will either pick out anectodal evidence, find a few positive attributes, or just plain lie.  They will spend the next 3 years supporting the hell out of Obamacare, regardless of how many 10's of millions of Americans will be kicked off or not be able to afford medical insurance coverage.  :-P

2013-10-28 10:51 AM
in reply to: #4884669

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There's nothing quite like having your sig be a bible quote to let the world know you are driven by facts.
2013-10-28 11:02 AM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!

Originally posted by morey000 There's nothing quite like having your sig be a bible quote to let the world know you are driven by facts.

I'll take that as a compliment, and also an acknowledgement that you have no response to my post other than to attack my personal credibility.  lol



2013-10-28 11:17 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by morey000 There's nothing quite like having your sig be a bible quote to let the world know you are driven by facts.

I'll take that as a compliment, and also an acknowledgement that you have no response to my post other than to attack my personal credibility.  lol

naw.  not exactly how I meant it.  

You advertise that you believe in an invisible supernatural deity because of what it says in a 2000 year old book.  If you take that as a compliment, it's clear that you have been lead to believe that 'faith' (which is, by definition, the opposite of reason) is somehow a positive attribute.  I don't share that value system.

As for having no response- it really more about having no time.  It's clear that given the state of the internet these days, it doesn't matter what you (or any of us) believe, we can find something out there that supports our contention.  I didn't post the original 'fact', and frankly, aren't personally sure how many part time vs full time jobs have been created in the slow recovery.  What I do believe is that the GOP has done everything in its power to stymie any kind of legislation that would help the recovery.  And, they have also proven themselves to be willing to shut down the government and cost our nation tens of billions in order to prevent poor people from getting health care.  I don't understand how those who follow the kindly wisdom of Jesus see themselves associated with that political party.

2013-10-28 11:37 AM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!
Originally posted by morey000

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by morey000 There's nothing quite like having your sig be a bible quote to let the world know you are driven by facts.

I'll take that as a compliment, and also an acknowledgement that you have no response to my post other than to attack my personal credibility.  lol

naw.  not exactly how I meant it.  

You advertise that you believe in an invisible supernatural deity because of what it says in a 2000 year old book.  If you take that as a compliment, it's clear that you have been lead to believe that 'faith' (which is, by definition, the opposite of reason) is somehow a positive attribute.  I don't share that value system.

As for having no response- it really more about having no time.  It's clear that given the state of the internet these days, it doesn't matter what you (or any of us) believe, we can find something out there that supports our contention.  I didn't post the original 'fact', and frankly, aren't personally sure how many part time vs full time jobs have been created in the slow recovery.  What I do believe is that the GOP has done everything in its power to stymie any kind of legislation that would help the recovery.  And, they have also proven themselves to be willing to shut down the government and cost our nation tens of billions in order to prevent poor people from getting health care.  I don't understand how those who follow the kindly wisdom of Jesus see themselves associated with that political party.




Can you please explain to me how the partial gov. shut down cost our nation tens of billions of dollars? The revenue steam in the form of taxes and fees never stopped as IRS collections never closed, only the side that paid out refunds for over payment was shut down.
2013-10-28 12:19 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by morey000

seems that the facts here are that the growth in jobs during this recovery has been more full time and fewer part time.  We still don't know what will happen, overall, when the ACA is fully implemented.

But here's what I've learned.  It doesn't matter.  The anti-Obama folks, will either pick out anectdotal evidence, find a few negative attributes, or just plain lie.  They will spend the next 3 years bashing the hell out of Obamacare, regardless of how many 10's of millions of americans will now have medical insurance coverage.  

 

OK, so please cite the source for your "fact" that the growth has been more full time and fewer part time workers.  I'll show you my source that says your "fact" is a lie.  

According to the September jobs report there are 7.9 million Americans working part time involuntarily which is twice as many as were in 2006 when the GDP drop started. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

If you look at the historical jobs reports for 2013 the number of people working part time in the U.S. grew almost four-and-a-half times as fast as the number of full-time workers. And the share of all workers who mainly hold part-time jobs is at levels not seen since the early 1980s.


Chart from (Unbelievable: 4.3 Part-Time Jobs Created for Every Full-Time Job in 2013! )

Here's another article from the Tea Party bastion HuffPo that seems to back the data.

75 Percent Of Jobs Created This Year Were Part-Time Due To Weak Economy, Obamacare Concerns

 

So, here is what I've learned.  It doesn't matter.  The pro-Obama folks will either pick out anectodal evidence, find a few positive attributes, or just plain lie.  They will spend the next 3 years supporting the hell out of Obamacare, regardless of how many 10's of millions of Americans will be kicked off or not be able to afford medical insurance coverage.  :-P





Hey Tony and all. I am all for respectable dialogue. I am viewing the BLS website and looking at the figures for people working part time for economic reasons. Yes, that figure ballooned from about 4.5M people per month during 2006 to more than 8M per month after the financial crisis. I can easily argue that was a function of the weak economy, not Obamacare. In 2013, the January figure was 7.973M people working part-time for economic reasons and the most recent figure was 7.926M (September). That is 47K less people working part-time for economic reasons, while overall employment figures for 2013 suggest the economy has added about 1.451M jobs. So how do you reconcile the differences between our 2 conclusions?
2013-10-28 12:28 PM
in reply to: NXS

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!
Originally posted by NXS

Originally posted by morey000

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by morey000 There's nothing quite like having your sig be a bible quote to let the world know you are driven by facts.

I'll take that as a compliment, and also an acknowledgement that you have no response to my post other than to attack my personal credibility.  lol

naw.  not exactly how I meant it.  

You advertise that you believe in an invisible supernatural deity because of what it says in a 2000 year old book.  If you take that as a compliment, it's clear that you have been lead to believe that 'faith' (which is, by definition, the opposite of reason) is somehow a positive attribute.  I don't share that value system.

As for having no response- it really more about having no time.  It's clear that given the state of the internet these days, it doesn't matter what you (or any of us) believe, we can find something out there that supports our contention.  I didn't post the original 'fact', and frankly, aren't personally sure how many part time vs full time jobs have been created in the slow recovery.  What I do believe is that the GOP has done everything in its power to stymie any kind of legislation that would help the recovery.  And, they have also proven themselves to be willing to shut down the government and cost our nation tens of billions in order to prevent poor people from getting health care.  I don't understand how those who follow the kindly wisdom of Jesus see themselves associated with that political party.




Can you please explain to me how the partial gov. shut down cost our nation tens of billions of dollars? The revenue steam in the form of taxes and fees never stopped as IRS collections never closed, only the side that paid out refunds for over payment was shut down.


I think by "our nation" he means "our economy", not "our government". Just because the IRS stopped working doesn't mean the economy wasn't affected. Everyone from the small business that rely on gvovernment workers for patronage to the hot dog vendors in the park where the ferry to Liberty Island lost out during the shutdown.

I don't have an article to cite-- perhaps I'll look for one later, but on the news this morning, it said that in addition to the above, there were a number of economists who predicted that the shutdown adversely affected consumer confidence which was expected to slow economic growth. I think they were predicting a slowdown of from 2.5% to 2.0% in the fourth quarter of 2013.
2013-10-28 12:31 PM
in reply to: sbreaux

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!

A company that hires 5 workers, for 10-15 hour work weeks was NEVER going to hire a single-FT person in the first place, so a statistic that shows an increase in PT jobs is HARDLY a reliable indication that employers are tailoring their hiring to offset ACA requirements.  Ask this same question in 6 months.

 



2013-10-28 12:40 PM
in reply to: NXS

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!

Originally posted by NXS

Can you please explain to me how the partial gov. shut down cost our nation tens of billions of dollars? The revenue steam in the form of taxes and fees never stopped as IRS collections never closed, only the side that paid out refunds for over payment was shut down.

Not sure I'm an authority on that, but this is what Standard and Poor's came up with, issued a press release and was widely reported a few weeks ago. The S&P press release stated:

"We believe that to date, the shutdown has shaved at least 0.6% off of annualized fourth-quarter 2013 GDP growth, or taken $24 billion out of the economy. However, the closer we get to breaching the debt ceiling, the higher we expect the economic impact to be.

In the summer of 2011, as we approached the last debt ceiling standoff, consumer confidence plummeted and hit a 31-year low in August when the debt ceiling issue came to a head. Given that this round of debt-ceiling negotiations is occurring after two-plus weeks of a government shutdown, the total impact on the economy will likely be even more severe."

2013-10-28 1:09 PM
in reply to: morey000

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Subject: RE: facts are the worst!
Originally posted by morey000

There's nothing quite like having your sig be a bible quote to let the world know you are driven by facts.


Wow - going after his religion. Way to keep the dialog respectful.


2013-10-28 1:47 PM
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Subject: MODERATOR NOTE

Yes, this thread is done.  There will be no going after another persons religion or there will be some timeouts involved.  This forum was created to let the standard forum rules be a little 'relaxed'...but not that relaxed.  We can discuss religion in a thread, we can discuss politics in a thread...but both together...not a good combination.

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