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2013-10-30 10:08 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean
Originally posted by Fred D
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John did you see the stuff by Jackmott on ST about mean maximal power? That's what I've been using instead of testing. Pretty interesting actually.




Yeah, I read through it, and it is an interesting approach. I sold my PM and am selling my bike, so it's academic interest at the moment.

Bryan does use a PM, though, the last I checked. I could be wrong though.

John


2013-10-30 10:09 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean

My kid has a measured FTP of 310.  We use a computrainer and HR monitor so that he can get used to the numbers on a trainer......but while he is working on that equipment he is constantly asked about RPE....and then given feedback on what the actual HR and Watts look like.  The initial intent was to get him set up with power meters on his bikes....but as he has learned to feel RPE we have backed off of that plan.  He wears neither a HR monitor nor has measured power on his bike when he races, but wears a HR monitor about every 3rd ride or so.  He does ALOT of training on a closed 4 mile loop near our home......he has learned to hit target times/numbers really well by riding the same course over and over while monitoring his RPE.  The repetition on a known distance has really helped him get a feel for his level of exertion as he learns to pace his distances. 

2013-10-30 10:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean
Originally posted by tkd.teacher

Originally posted by Fred D
>

John did you see the stuff by Jackmott on ST about mean maximal power? That's what I've been using instead of testing. Pretty interesting actually.




Yeah, I read through it, and it is an interesting approach. I sold my PM and am selling my bike, so it's academic interest at the moment.

Bryan does use a PM, though, the last I checked. I could be wrong though.

John


Bryan attempted to use a PM during Kona last year when he borrowed his coach's Cervelo P5. In the end, he never bothered with it during the race and focused on HR. As a side note, during the last race at SOMA, 2 weeks ago, he was having garmin issues and it not syncing with his HR strap and had to go by RPE... eventhough he had a successful race, he thought that he might have gone a little too hard on the bike and ruined his run... he ran a 1:32, poor boy! He has been successful with HR. He posted his HR chart from Kona and it is impressive... locking in the HR at 140 for 5 hours on the bike... that kind of stability is amazing.



Edited by tomspharmacy 2013-10-30 10:36 AM
2013-10-30 10:32 AM
in reply to: tkd.teacher

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean

Originally posted by tkd.teacher
Originally posted by Fred D >

John did you see the stuff by Jackmott on ST about mean maximal power? That's what I've been using instead of testing. Pretty interesting actually.

Yeah, I read through it, and it is an interesting approach. I sold my PM and am selling my bike, so it's academic interest at the moment. Bryan does use a PM, though, the last I checked. I could be wrong though. John

Due to some circumstances, he had one for a bit, but didn't get much out of it. Don't think he's currently using it. Fred can probably put more details on that.

I believe Starykowicz actually uses power for training, but not racing. He wants the race to go by feel. A few others do this as well. I understand the feel, and keeping the power values out of view, but not so much on not recording the race data at all for analysis later on.

Kienle has tried power, but wasn't working for him, so as far as I know does not use it at all now. Something along the lines of always trying to beat what he did the last workout.

2013-10-30 11:07 AM
in reply to: tomspharmacy

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean
Originally posted by tomspharmacy

Bryan attempted to use a PM during Kona last year when he borrowed his coach's Cervelo P5. In the end, he never bothered with it during the race and focused on HR. As a side note, during the last race at SOMA, 2 weeks ago, he was having garmin issues and it not syncing with his HR strap and had to go by RPE... eventhough he had a successful race, he thought that he might have gone a little too hard on the bike and ruined his run... he ran a 1:32, poor boy! He has been successful with HR. He posted his HR chart from Kona and it is impressive... locking in the HR at 140 for 5 hours on the bike... that kind of stability is amazing.


Yeah, I volunteered on the water and saw him in T2. Heckled him too

Wish I could "ruin my run" and still finish...what, 7th OA and 1st AG? Something around there anyway...

John
2013-10-30 11:08 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean
Originally posted by brigby1

Kienle has tried power, but wasn't working for him, so as far as I know does not use it at all now. Something along the lines of always trying to beat what he did the last workout.




Yeah, that's always a temptation, to chase the numbers.

John


2013-10-30 11:09 AM
in reply to: tkd.teacher

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean

Originally posted by tkd.teacher  Bryan does use a PM, though, the last I checked. I could be wrong though. John

Bryan does not use a PM, but I believe he may in the future as his team (Zoot Ultra) may sponsor?

As mentioned he used it briefly in a Kona buildup using his coach's P5.... and he didn't get enough time to evaluate.

*I* am not saying power is BAD, rather, the fact that there has been success by some people without power points to the fact that not everyone NEEDS it.

Benefit for most who use it properly? YES

Mandatory? NO

2013-10-30 11:13 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean

Originally posted by brigby1

 

Due to some circumstances, he had one for a bit, but didn't get much out of it. Don't think he's currently using it. Fred can probably put more details on that.

I believe Starykowicz actually uses power for training, but not racing. He wants the race to go by feel. A few others do this as well. I understand the feel, and keeping the power values out of view, but not so much on not recording the race data at all for analysis later on.

Kienle has tried power, but wasn't working for him, so as far as I know does not use it at all now. Something along the lines of always trying to beat what he did the last workout.

Yeah, I am unsure what Starky does in training, but to be honest he might well benefit from racing with a power meter.... as he has on more than one occasion gone out too hard on the bike with a blow up on the run.

Kienle is of course a true superstar elite and what he can do is not necessarily what you or I can do, but Sebi runs very well off the bike, so again I suggest that power is not mandatory for success.

*I* think for most of us that power IS OF GREAT BENEFIT both in training and racing (less so in racing for my opinion).

This does not mean that we can't have great success without one....

2013-10-31 10:59 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean
"This does not mean that we can't have great success without one...."

Nor does it mean that that your will have great success with one

But considering you can try it out for less than a $60 investment or <$40 if you go with an un-branded Asian knock-off cadence/speed sensor it may be worth a try.
2013-10-31 11:04 AM
in reply to: pschriver

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean
Originally posted by pschriver

"This does not mean that we can't have great success without one...."

Nor does it mean that that your will have great success with one

But considering you can try it out for less than a $60 investment or <$40 if you go with an un-branded Asian knock-off cadence/speed sensor it may be worth a try.


^^ a PM for $60? Where?
2013-10-31 1:30 PM
in reply to: tjfry

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Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean
Originally posted by tjfry

Originally posted by pschriver

"This does not mean that we can't have great success without one...."

Nor does it mean that that your will have great success with one

But considering you can try it out for less than a $60 investment or <$40 if you go with an un-branded Asian knock-off cadence/speed sensor it may be worth a try.


^^ a PM for $60? Where?


Virtual Power with an ANT+ Garmin GSC-10 and a free download of Golden Cheetah v3. I use it in combination with my wired powertap on a fluid trainer and the readings are essentially the same. I like having the readings on the TV so I usually focus mostly on the virtual power number anyway. It is also easier to read. It also forces me to look forward which is what we do outside. I had a miserable early season HIM one year from a sore neck which I'm sure was from spending the winter looking down at my meter and getting used to that position. Since then, I make a special effort to make sure I look forward a lot more on the trainer to build neck strenth..


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