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Training with a power meter....what does it mean
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 2013-10-28 10:07 AM |
Member 53 |  Subject: Training with a power meter....what does it meanWhat does it mean to train with a power meter? How effective is it training with that versus using your heart rate? Is it better? Is it just in biking or in running as well? |
| 2013-10-28 10:32 AM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
Expert 1394   Wilmington, NC | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Most would say that it is more effective to train with power as opposed to training with heart rate. There are obviously people you feel heart rate by itself works fine. Basically you can only use power as a training metric for the bike because you actually need to measure the power output. |
| 2013-10-28 11:43 AM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
Expert 2547  The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Originally posted by gatorcali21 What does it mean to train with a power meter? How effective is it training with that versus using your heart rate? Is it better? Is it just in biking or in running as well? Power is a measure of performance and a great tool. Heart Rate is a measure of stress or effort and a great tool. They can work well together. For running you would measure pace as it's the only performance output available. Again, works great when paired with heart rate. |
| 2013-10-28 11:47 AM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean It's just another data point. HR, pace, etc are all just ways to see where you are and at what level you should be pushing the day's training. Power meters are just another tool to do that. Pace can be off due to wind, inclines, etc and HR is really heat changed so a combo of pace, HR and power will tell you pretty much exactly how you're doing compared to last year as well as let you set up a training plan to work today at XX% of whatever power you have available. For me, pace and HR vary considerably depending on phase of moon for all I know but power is pretty much a constant. |
 2013-10-28 12:00 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2013-10-28 12:29 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Extreme Veteran 1018 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Power is like reading your car's speedometer. How fast is your car going? 18mph in tailwind is still 18mph if it was headwind. Pushing 350watts downhill is no different than pushing 350 downhill. It's still 350 watts. HR is like reading your car's tachometer. How much is your engine working in different situtations? Tons of things can throw this data in opposing directions. Hills, wind, nutrition, heat, humidty, sickness, rest, etc. Both are good to get data on performance. However, pair both of them up and you have more information. |
| 2013-10-28 4:33 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Power is a great tool to measure instantaneously how much force your putting into the pedals. This is a great way to shoot for intervals and help set various targets in training and racing. It is much more useful though when you combine it with HR or RPE (rate of perceived effort). The software availible with power also helps you track your short and long term training stress which can also be very beneficial in guiding your training. |
| 2013-10-28 5:41 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| 1660 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean If you have a trainer, you can get the full power training experience with much less money (but indoors) using trainerroad.com. Yes it's 100% as good as a powermeter for training, even if the 'virtualpower' calculated numbers are different from what a real powermeter would measure. |
| 2013-10-28 9:11 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean You can also get the virtual power without a trainerroad.com subscription by using a free download of Golden Cheetah v3. You need a Ant+ stick and a rear wheel cadence/speed meter. I look at using a powermeter like going to the weight room. You look for weights of certain size and build your way up to heavier ones. You can also track your progress. You wouldn't go into a weight room and just randomly pick up weights and hope to get stronger. HR was considered a great way to train before powermeters. HR is still good but if your trying to do 7 x 90 sec intervals at threshold + watts vs heart beat, you will find it is much more controlled using watts. Whether or not it makes any difference in your progress is another debate but the graphs you make using a powermeter are a lot prettier than the ones made using heart rate. Edited by pschriver 2013-10-28 9:11 PM |
| 2013-10-28 11:25 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Well, there's FTP, and CTL, ATL, SB. then there's TSS, IF, and Np. And don't forget CP.
it's all very cool if you like data. But, consistency and volume will probably be a more useful way to improve your performance.
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| 2013-10-28 11:28 PM in reply to: pschriver |
| Extreme Veteran 635 Ajo | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean I prefer power, RPE then HR in that order. I can match up power and RPE, but can't with HR... HR is too variable as it is affected by health, well being, and every other factor. Power is affected by those too, but as someone pointed out hitting 300 watts is 300 watts. I started using my HR, but use power and love it. |
| 2013-10-28 11:42 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Power: To measure gains, race specific workouts, intervals, racing, etc HR: Use to measure recovery, caps to hold back harder efforts, rule of thumb RPE: used for the easier sessions That is how I use these variables in a nutshell. |
| 2013-10-29 5:41 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean As you're looking, keep in mind some try to make things like this some mystical thing that requires something akin to astrophysics to use one of these things. It doesn't. Matter of fact, at first do nothing. Just ride with the power meter recording. Then get something like this: http://www.spinervals.com/products/item10.cfm Then use those percentages in any training plan that uses power. |
| 2013-10-29 5:46 PM in reply to: morey000 |
| Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Originally posted by morey000 Well, there's FTP, and CTL, ATL, SB. then there's TSS, IF, and Np. And don't forget CP.
it's all very cool if you like data. But, consistency and volume will probably be a more useful way to improve your performance.
The great thing is that you can use all those metrics while being consistent and increasing your volume. Using power does not replace hard work, it just adds more precision and detail so you can fine tune that hard work. |
| 2013-10-29 5:53 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by morey000 The great thing is that you can use all those metrics while being consistent and increasing your volume. Using power does not replace hard work, it just adds more precision and detail so you can fine tune that hard work. Well, there's FTP, and CTL, ATL, SB. then there's TSS, IF, and Np. And don't forget CP.
it's all very cool if you like data. But, consistency and volume will probably be a more useful way to improve your performance.
exactly. I've been riding with power for about 10 months (on the road), I've had power on the trainer for a couple years). I've not ridden any more than I have in prior years necessarily, but am coming off the bike much quicker. But a powermeter is just a glorified computer if you don't have a plan to use it properly |
| 2013-10-29 9:49 PM in reply to: #4886154 |
| Member 53 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean So all things being equal, meaning no wind, and assuming you are at the same fitness level, your hr will be the same if the power output is the same. However, if you improve fitness, your power output will increase at the same heart rate (and hence you are faster). Is that correct? |
| 2013-10-29 11:18 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Originally posted by gatorcali21 So all things being equal, meaning no wind, and assuming you are at the same fitness level, your hr will be the same if the power output is the same. However, if you improve fitness, your power output will increase at the same heart rate (and hence you are faster). Is that correct?
ideally, yes. that is correct. except there are a lot of things that effect HR. Heat and hydration are the two biggies. So, at the beginning of the ride, you might be putting out 180 w with a HR of 130. At the end of the ride, that 180w might cost you 145bpm. I have just two items displayed on the main page of my cycling computer. Power (3s) and HR. I get used to looking at the pair of the two. It's true what people say above about HR being somewhat variable, but if you know your body and your HR trends, you can learn a lot from watching it. Even still- I find HR more accurate than RPE. Perhaps some people are trained well enough to be able to ride by RPE, but now that I can look at power, I know how inaccurate RPE can be. I'll stop looking at my computer and try to hold a steady Power level. without fail, when I look down a few minutes later, I'm 25% off in either direction. I'm sure others can do it more accurately than I, but still. Having a power meter to look at during a tri race where you're trying to hold a steady power level... it's like cheating (except it's legal). |
| 2013-10-29 11:58 PM in reply to: morey000 |
| Extreme Veteran 635 Ajo | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Another thing about a power meter is that you can begin to understand the relationship of aerodynamics and rolling resistance, whether that's good or bad, but it's another metric that's available. |
| 2013-10-29 11:58 PM in reply to: gatorcali21 |
| Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Originally posted by gatorcali21 So all things being equal, meaning no wind, and assuming you are at the same fitness level, your hr will be the same if the power output is the same. However, if you improve fitness, your power output will increase at the same heart rate (and hence you are faster). Is that correct? Essentially, yes. If you are serious about using a power meter, also get the book "Training and Racing with a powermeter". You can use it to qualify your training so you either don't cut your workout too short, or do too much. Example: FTP (Functional Threshold Power, the max power you can sustain for 1 hour) : 300 watts for this example. Say you have on the schedule for your bike workout to do 10 x 1 minute at threshold (300 watts). You do 3 of these, and start to feel tired. With a PM, you can tell on #4 if you are holding power, or it is dropping off. If it is dropping off, then there is no real point to churning out 6 more at 75% of FTP instead of the desired 100%. Conversely, if you do 10 and feel great, you can do more until your power starts dropping and you can't sustain. This way if you are having a great workout, you can get all you can out of it, and if you are not able to perform to the desired level you can cut it short and not fatigue yourself even further doing a workout that isn't doing what it's supposed to. Powermeter training is all about trends, data points and comparisons over time. You can do FTP tests every 6 weeks or so and see if you are progressing or not, etc. It's a fabulous tool, unless you simply use it as a glorified speedometer that makes pretty graphs on your screen. Dr. House maintains that everyone lies, and that is true. Powermeter won't lie to you.  John |
| 2013-10-30 12:09 AM in reply to: tkd.teacher |
| Extreme Veteran 635 Ajo | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean After almost 2 years with a power meter and my current trainer, I can now be pretty confident of my progress. For example, after just completing since Aug... an HIM, 40k TT, OLY and HIM in 2 months, today after about a week and half of recovery, I busted out new levels of power for a given length of time, thus giving me confidence in a new 60 minute threshold power. Honestly, I couldn't fathom how to track that kind of progress with HR only. |
| 2013-10-30 6:35 AM in reply to: 0 |
| Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Originally posted by gatorcali21 So all things being equal, meaning no wind, and assuming you are at the same fitness level, your hr will be the same if the power output is the same. However, if you improve fitness, your power output will increase at the same heart rate (and hence you are faster). Is that correct? I think one of the biggest mistakes people make with HR training is thinking that the absolute number really means anything. You will frequently hear people say their max HR or threshold HR is X and want to compare it to other people's max or threshold. It is truly an individual number and means very little when compared to other people. Power is a little different especially when divided by weight to give the Power Index. It is safe to assume an athlete with a power index of 4 is faster and stronger than an athlete at 2. Also with training, don't expect to see your threshold HR change. It may go up a little or down a little as you become more fit but the best measure of improved fitness based on HR is the 1 minute recovery time and resting rate. In other words, don't expect incremental increase in your threshold HR but you should see incremental increases in your FTP/watts Edited by pschriver 2013-10-30 6:47 AM |
| 2013-10-30 7:09 AM in reply to: tomspharmacy |
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| 2013-10-30 7:11 AM in reply to: tkd.teacher |
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| 2013-10-30 8:43 AM in reply to: Fred D |
| Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Training with a power meter....what does it mean Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by tomspharmacy Honestly, I couldn't fathom how to track that kind of progress with HR only. There are ways to track progress with a HR monitor.... Power may well be superior, but lots of top triathletes are HR only users and seem to do ok: 1. Sebastian Kienle Again, NOT, read NOT saying power doesn't have have plusses over HR, but tracking progress with a HR can be done in a number of ways. And some even use RPE but a powermeter does seem to shorten the learning curve for a lot of athletes. Basing your training off what elite athletes do is not always the best answer. |
| 2013-10-30 9:58 AM in reply to: pschriver |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
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