Other Resources The Political Joe » What is single payer healthcare? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 4
 
 
2013-10-29 2:03 PM

User image

Extreme Veteran
3025
2000100025
Maryland
Subject: What is single payer healthcare?

I hear it mentioned from time to time and I don't really know how it works. So what is single payer healthcare and how would it change my life if such a system were implemented I know this is political joe, but really I just want an explanation not why dems love it or the GOP hates it.



Edited by dmiller5 2013-10-29 2:11 PM


2013-10-29 2:06 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
2013-10-29 2:18 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Expert
2180
2000100252525
Boise, Idaho
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Other than the usual "the Govt. can't run any program effectively", what are the drawbacks of single-payer?

2013-10-29 2:23 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Expert
2180
2000100252525
Boise, Idaho
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by dmiller5

I hear it mentioned from time to time and I don't really know how it works. So what is single payer healthcare and how would it change my life if such a system were implemented I know this is political joe, but really I just want an explanation not why dems love it or the GOP hates it.

Thanks for clarifying that!  lol

(however, I, personally don't give it x5 responses before it goes Red/Blue)

2013-10-29 2:38 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

User image

Extreme Veteran
3025
2000100025
Maryland
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by dmiller5

I hear it mentioned from time to time and I don't really know how it works. So what is single payer healthcare and how would it change my life if such a system were implemented I know this is political joe, but really I just want an explanation not why dems love it or the GOP hates it.

Thanks for clarifying that!  lol

(however, I, personally don't give it x5 responses before it goes Red/Blue)

its a test

2013-10-29 2:42 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

New user
900
500100100100100
,
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
Originally posted by jeffnboise

Other than the usual "the Govt. can't run any program effectively", what are the drawbacks of single-payer?




For starters, the cost.


2013-10-29 4:52 PM
in reply to: 0

Regular
147
10025
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
How will it change your life if implemented? This is a gross simplification, but essentially how it will effect you. 100% of Americans will have health care. The providers will be paid by the gov't. The gov't gets it $$$ from those who pay taxes. If you are obese, smoke two packs a day and make < $20k annually, you will be golden because the gov't won't collect any taxes from you. If you make intelligent life style choices and make a good living, you will get to pay for the obese guy's insurance and yours. The AHCA is just a watered down version.

Edited by riltri 2013-10-29 4:54 PM
2013-10-29 5:03 PM
in reply to: NXS

User image

Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by NXS
Originally posted by jeffnboise

Other than the usual "the Govt. can't run any program effectively", what are the drawbacks of single-payer?

For starters, the cost.

Care to expound?
What cost? To whom? What are the effects? Why are they negative? Does the drawback of "the cost" benefit anyone?

Seriously, I'm not being flippant, I'd be interested in some citations.

2013-10-29 6:11 PM
in reply to: 0

New user
900
500100100100100
,
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
Originally posted by Brit Abroad

Originally posted by NXS
Originally posted by jeffnboise

Other than the usual "the Govt. can't run any program effectively", what are the drawbacks of single-payer?

For starters, the cost.

Care to expound?
What cost? To whom? What are the effects? Why are they negative? Does the drawback of "the cost" benefit anyone?

Seriously, I'm not being flippant, I'd be interested in some citations.




For 2012, 732 billion was spent by the fed gov (tax payers) for medicare, medicaid and chip. Medicare alone was 472 billion covering 48 million people. Medicaid and CHIP cost was 260 billion (not including matching state funds) covering 60 million people. The total number of people covered was a little over 100 million. Now with 350 million people in the US, covering everyone would be roughly 3.5 times what we currently spend (732 billion) to cover the 100 million. That number 732 billion X 3.5 = 2,562 billion or 2.562 trillion dollars annually. Remember that number does not include the matching state funds for medicaid or CHIP. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO DO THIS since we are already 17 trillion in the hole.

For 2012, 2.469 trillion in receipts, 3.796 trillion in outlays giving us a deficit of 1.3 trillion. Like I said before, we cannot afford it.

Edited by NXS 2013-10-29 6:17 PM
2013-10-29 6:58 PM
in reply to: NXS

User image

Extreme Veteran
3025
2000100025
Maryland
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

2013-10-29 7:04 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?




Nothing the government has ever done has cost LESS than anticipated.

Just something to think about.



2013-10-29 7:21 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

New user
900
500100100100100
,
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?




I don't really follow your question, but people on medicare, medicaid and CHIP who have access to primary care, still use the ER for that purpose. Remember you can't be turned away and since most don't work, they can sit there for hours on end to see a doc for a runny nose or because they are too cheap to buy their own tylenol. So going to the ER for non emergent issues will still be a problem. Just look at ACA, the real cost is way over what they said it would be. Refer to DanielG's post above.
2013-10-29 9:32 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

User image

Expert
1240
100010010025
Columbia, MO
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by jeffnboise

 

 

(however, I, personally don't give it x5 responses before it goes Red/Blue)

So with the caviat that our government couldn't effectively run a whorehouse.........what color can I be? I'm a Libertarian.

2013-10-30 7:54 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by dmiller5

I hear it mentioned from time to time and I don't really know how it works. So what is single payer healthcare and how would it change my life if such a system were implemented I know this is political joe, but really I just want an explanation not why dems love it or the GOP hates it.

Single Payer is the "fix" to the Affordable Care Act. 

I believe what it will be is the Federal Government having a one size fits all plan that is paid for by a tax similar to SS, reimbursement to providers will be on a fee basis set by the Federal Government. Providers won't be Federal workers, well not initially but will be compensated/paid by the Federal Government. 

2013-10-30 9:53 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Member
465
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?




How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

2013-10-30 10:51 AM
in reply to: Jackemy1

User image

Extreme Veteran
3025
2000100025
Maryland
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.



2013-10-30 10:56 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.

Wait............what???

2013-10-30 10:58 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Extreme Veteran
3025
2000100025
Maryland
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.

Wait............what???

I don't think banks should be making a ton of money off of student loans.

ETA: I think this may be a whole different thread however



Edited by dmiller5 2013-10-30 10:59 AM
2013-10-30 11:07 AM
in reply to: Jackemy1

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

I always think of single payer healthcare as you have a clinic you go to and you have a hospital you go to and that's it.  Whatever doctor that's on duty is what you get, have nice day.  Next...

When I was in the Navy we had Navcare clinics out in town that were free healthcare clinics for military members.  We always hated going to them because they were over run with sick people and you'd burn half a day in the waiting room.  Then you'd get a cranky over worked doctor who didn't have much incentive to provide customer service.  That was the only place we would go for routine healthcare, we did not have a choice, and it was not fun.  Obviously that's just one clinic in one town, but to call it good would be a stretch.

I don't see how single payer could ever work in America from a fiscal standpoint because we refuse to tax our poor.  The people who are in favor of single payer healthcare always point to Europe as the example and that we should be like them with entitlements and benefits.  Yet in the same breath those people refuse to tax half the country.
If we had a 20% VAT in the US that everyone paid into then I'd say we could afford it.  There's no question it would have unintended consequences and effect a lot of things, but I'm not well enough versed in it to say what all of those effects would be.  I do have some suspicions though.  

 

2013-10-30 11:15 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Member
465
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.




In a normal market transaction, I go to the store and pick out something I want. If the price is acceptable, I pay for it. If it is too high, I put it back and shop around for a better deal.

In a single payor transaction, I go to the store and pick out something I want and I walk out. The guy who owns the market then goes to the government to get payment. I can care less what the cost of good was as that transaction doesn't come out of my account. It is "free" to me as I gave up no additional assets as a result of the transaction.

2013-10-30 11:24 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.

If the consumer walks in the door, gets a service, walks out without having to pay for it, then I'd call that free.  From a supply/demand standpoint the demand would be infinite, which makes the cost infinite from an academic standpoint.  If the clinic isn't charging their customers then they cannot adjust their price to the consumer to reduce the demand.

The government going to bid for something is when the government buys stuff like a toaster.  They don't go to bid to provide DEA agents, they just hire them and pay them and we all get the "service" for free.  I hope they don't go to bid for my surgery that I need.  Here's Dr. Demitry, he said he'd remove your kidney for $75, meet him at his house tonight.  

Should healthcare be something we let demand dictate the price.  It's not a matter of letting it, it just is.  It's like saying should we let the sky be blue.  Supply and Damand is the law of economics, it exists no matter how hard you try to make it not exist.  If you open only one clinic in every city in America the demand will dictate opening more clinics because the clinic won't service the ones that are there.  The government can hide a lot of supply side costs because the consumer isn't paying out of pocket for them, but the costs will absolutely go up as the demand goes up.

Just remember, when you talk about removing this or that from the free market.  There are obviously benefits to doing things like that, but there's also consequences.  Most people like to only look at the benefits and ignore the consequences.  The ACA is a good example of this because there's no question it has a lot of benefits, but it also has a lot of consequences.  The supporters ignored the consequences and only pumped the benefits, but now they're starting to deal with some of the consequences and they don't like them.



2013-10-30 11:28 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.

Wait............what???

I don't think banks should be making a ton of money off of student loans.

ETA: I think this may be a whole different thread however

Let me ask you this, why do banks make a ton of money off of student loans?

Here's a hint, because the government guarantees the loans and the law doesn't allow you to bankrupt or charge of the debt ever.  So why wouldn't the banks give them to anyone who could fog a mirror?  If the government got out of the loan business then you won't see banks making a ton of money on loans because they wouldn't give them out so freely.  The cost of education would drop like a rock as well because government backed loans are the reason for skyrocketing tuition rates.  That' ole supply and demand thing again, government provides an infinite supply of student loan money so the colleges jack their rates up.

2013-10-30 11:30 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Member
465
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.




Your second point poses an interesting philosophical debate. Is health care a right or a privilege?

I don't know what your occupation is but let's say you are a doctor. You went through years of medical school and worked thousands of hours in residency and all the other sacrifices and investments you had to make to put Dr. in front of your name.

Now say I get sick and I need your expertise to fix me. Is it my right to demand that you fix me without any further obligation to you? Or is it a privilege? meaning that I have to pay you to compensate you for the expertise you developed to fix me? Is your expertise and the investment made in yourself owned by you or me?

Edited by Jackemy1 2013-10-30 11:33 AM
2013-10-30 11:30 AM
in reply to: Jackemy1

User image

Champion
14571
50005000200020005002525
the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.

In a normal market transaction, I go to the store and pick out something I want. If the price is acceptable, I pay for it. If it is too high, I put it back and shop around for a better deal. In a single payor transaction, I go to the store and pick out something I want and I walk out. The guy who owns the market then goes to the government to get payment. I can care less what the cost of good was as that transaction doesn't come out of my account. It is "free" to me as I gave up no additional assets as a result of the transaction.

this is exactly how health insurance works today.  you don't need a single payor system to have consumers know nothing about the cost of their healthcare.

2013-10-30 11:39 AM
in reply to: mehaner

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: What is single payer healthcare?

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Jackemy1
Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure if this is quantifiable, but wouldn't some costs be reduced through people not using emergency rooms as primary care and other things like that? If those prices are built into the system already, wouldn't that reduce health care costs across the board?

How do you address cost in a market model that completely removes price between the supplier and the consumer. When a product is "free" to the consumer how does the supplier control the cost to supply the product?

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.

In a normal market transaction, I go to the store and pick out something I want. If the price is acceptable, I pay for it. If it is too high, I put it back and shop around for a better deal. In a single payor transaction, I go to the store and pick out something I want and I walk out. The guy who owns the market then goes to the government to get payment. I can care less what the cost of good was as that transaction doesn't come out of my account. It is "free" to me as I gave up no additional assets as a result of the transaction.

this is exactly how health insurance works today.  you don't need a single payor system to have consumers know nothing about the cost of their healthcare.

Correct, and that is exactly why healthcare "costs" are out of control.  There's no demand control at all.  However, this is only how it works with people who have insurance.  If you give everyone insurance (ACA) or make it single payer then the demand skyrockets and the rise in cost still occurs it just goes to the government or the insurance.  If we then continue allowing half the country to not pay taxes or get free insurance (ACA) then they feel no ill effects and their demand remains infinite.

New Thread
Other Resources The Political Joe » What is single payer healthcare? Rss Feed  
 
 
of 4
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Healthcare.gov

Started by tuwood
Views: 1445 Posts: 13

2013-10-15 5:36 PM tuwood

So much for keeping my companies current healthcare plan

Started by tuwood
Views: 1634 Posts: 13

2013-07-31 8:43 AM chirunner134
RELATED ARTICLES
date : July 2, 2013
author : mikericci
comments : 0
Although a computrainer can be a great asset to any athlete, it’s not the only way to improve your pedal stroke. I’ll list a number of pedaling drills below and how you can incorporate them.
 
date : February 15, 2013
author : XLAB Hydration
comments : 0
XLAB Launches the Latest Rear Single Bottle System, the DELTA 300
date : November 9, 2009
author : Nancy Clark
comments : 1
What can you do? You can implement small but sustainable changes that you can happily maintain for the rest of your life. The changes might have more to do with lifestyle than food.
 
date : April 23, 2009
author : Team BT
comments : 0
The single arm drill ensures that you are getting the rotation you need throughout your stroke.
date : May 5, 2008
author : TriPainter
comments : 1
I went into the pool area (as this was a pool swim) and got body marked. That's when it hit me that I was there to race - this was not a clinic.
 
date : September 24, 2007
author : mrakes1
comments : 0
Discussions on salt tablets, AM workout nutrition, coffee, post workout nutrition, whey powder, recovery nutrition, losing weight, Recoverite usage, the necessity of sugars and snack ideas.
date : September 11, 2007
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Bosu ball single leg squats stability exercise with picture and video.
 
date : September 11, 2007
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Bosu Ball Hip Abduction - single leg stability exercise with picture and video.