General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HELP - running shoes are complicated Rss Feed  
Moderators: jmk-brooklyn, Ron Reply
2013-11-03 12:56 PM


32
25
Subject: HELP - running shoes are complicated
I'm doing a run focus over the winter with added swimming and minimal bike maintenance and I need new running shoes before I get underway here...

My current shoes are Brooks Ravenna 3's. I was recommended these at my local running shop when I was a heal-striker. So I bought them and took his advice to keep my feet underneath me and transition to a healthier strike pattern.

A season and 500 miles or so later, I've attempted to do that and have stayed injury free. Examining the bottom of my shoes, there is no wear in the heal of either shoe. On the left shoe, the wear is concentrated under the toe box, under the metatarsal to phalange joint, and slightly toward the outside of the foot. So, I guess that is indicative of a forefoot strike.

The right foot wear is concentrated in the forefoot as well, but further to the outside of the foot with a lot of wear on the outer edge. I am to understand that this indicates underpronation, a somewhat uncommon condition among runners. I can feel my right foot doing this more than my left when I'm running faster than a 7:30 or so pace.

I've read that, as an underpronator, I should avoid "stability" or "motion control" shoes. I've read online that the Ravenna 3 is considered more of a "support" shoe for overpronators.

Is it possible that this shoe is causing me to underpronate when I would naturally be a neutral footstriker?

What shoes should I try? I'm considering getting a more cushioned training shoe and a lighter-weight racer. I've been looking at NB 1400s, Altra zero drop, although I don't know if those are good for me....


2013-11-03 9:02 PM
in reply to: slowspoke

User image

Member
62
2525
Eastern TN
Silver member
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated
You need someone good to do a running gait analysis. Check around in your area for a PT, running coach or athlete trainer who can help you. Also find a real running store near you and talk to them.

Having said that it seems unlikely that a shoe is going to be able to make you an underpronator or supinator. If you are a supinator the stability shoes probably won't hurt but you are not going to benefit from their motion control or stability features. You are just running with a heavier more built up shoe.

As far as drop goes it pays to transition slowly. If you are using 12 mm try 8 mm, etc. And slowly build mileage.

I am not a shoe expert so find someone near you who can resolve these issues. Sounds like you've made some really good progress already.

2013-11-04 9:16 AM
in reply to: NCmtnborn76


32
25
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated
I agree that it seems unlikely that a shoe would force me to change what would otherwise be my natural footstrike. But stability and motion control are for mild-severe overpronation. So I'm wondering if on the feet of a neutral runner, the wear pattern would provide a false positive for underpronation. There must be some added structure under the inside of the foot that would make a neutral runner shift load to the outside of the foot.

As far as the drop is concerned, I'll forget about the flat ones for training. Now I'm only looking at shoes that are around 4mm drop. It's not a huge change from my current 8mm drop. Unfortunately, none of the Nike running shoes list a "drop" measurement.

I ordered some new balance 1400's for races, last night.
2013-11-04 9:59 AM
in reply to: slowspoke

User image

Member
282
100100252525
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated
You "could" be supinating (the official word for underpronating) but you have to realize that when you run forefoot, you are almost always going to land on the outside of your feet and roll in...it's biomechanics. if you dont believe me then go jog a few feet barefoot and try to force the ball of your foot to be the first thing to hit the ground (running at more then a shuffle), or watch a youtube video of forefoot striking in slow motion.

Honestly, I understand the appeal of going to a different shoe...but if that one has worked for 500miles and kept you injury free...why risk it? If it aint broke dont fix it.

There are definitely anomalies...and that could be you, these are just generalities.

Note: I worked in a running shop for 4 years and my wife works for Adidas in specialty running...so i'm not blowing out my butt, lol.
2013-11-04 1:13 PM
in reply to: Iwannarunlikeforrest

User image

Expert
2977
2000500100100100100252525
Boise, ID
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated

Originally posted by Iwannarunlikeforrest You "could" be supinating (the official word for underpronating) but you have to realize that when you run forefoot, you are almost always going to land on the outside of your feet and roll in...it's biomechanics. if you dont believe me then go jog a few feet barefoot and try to force the ball of your foot to be the first thing to hit the ground (running at more then a shuffle), or watch a youtube video of forefoot striking in slow motion. Honestly, I understand the appeal of going to a different shoe...but if that one has worked for 500miles and kept you injury free...why risk it? If it aint broke dont fix it. There are definitely anomalies...and that could be you, these are just generalities. Note: I worked in a running shop for 4 years and my wife works for Adidas in specialty running...so i'm not blowing out my butt, lol.

^^Agreed.

You will land to the outside of your foot a bit. If you went 500 miles in those shoes with zero injury I'd say don't fix what ain't broke!

If you can afford to try out different shoes then go ahead, but if you are on a budget and only want to buy one pair of new shoes, stick with what has worked.

I was thinking about trying new shoes next time around as well. But I really like my current shoes and have decided that rather than risk buying something else, running 40 miles and hating them, I'll just stick with what I know works. I don't want to blow extra money on shoes. If I had the money and time to experiment I might.

2013-11-04 1:17 PM
in reply to: Iwannarunlikeforrest


32
25
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated
Good point about the biomechanics of a barefoot strike. I'm a little cautious about it being more pronounced on my right foot. I would probably not be worried if it was symmetrical.

But to your point about being injury free, I should add that my volume has been quite low. I'd say average like 10 mpw or less. I did more biking and swimming than running this summer. I would think I could wear combat boots for that volume and manage to stay injury free hahaha

I'm upping the mileage slowly over the winter to a max of about 25-30 mpw for a spring HM. So, I don't think my "success" record with these shoes is enough to justify doubling the volume on them, does that make sense?


2013-11-04 1:19 PM
in reply to: slowspoke

User image

Expert
2977
2000500100100100100252525
Boise, ID
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated

 

Where do you run? The roads around here are all crowned to a pretty significant degree. This can make your shoes wear a bit uneven. Also contributes to some fun lower back pain sometimes. 

2013-11-04 1:23 PM
in reply to: Aarondb4


32
25
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated
Originally posted by Aarondb4

Originally posted by Iwannarunlikeforrest You "could" be supinating (the official word for underpronating) but you have to realize that when you run forefoot, you are almost always going to land on the outside of your feet and roll in...it's biomechanics. if you dont believe me then go jog a few feet barefoot and try to force the ball of your foot to be the first thing to hit the ground (running at more then a shuffle), or watch a youtube video of forefoot striking in slow motion. Honestly, I understand the appeal of going to a different shoe...but if that one has worked for 500miles and kept you injury free...why risk it? If it aint broke dont fix it. There are definitely anomalies...and that could be you, these are just generalities. Note: I worked in a running shop for 4 years and my wife works for Adidas in specialty running...so i'm not blowing out my butt, lol.

^^Agreed.

You will land to the outside of your foot a bit. If you went 500 miles in those shoes with zero injury I'd say don't fix what ain't broke!

If you can afford to try out different shoes then go ahead, but if you are on a budget and only want to buy one pair of new shoes, stick with what has worked.

I was thinking about trying new shoes next time around as well. But I really like my current shoes and have decided that rather than risk buying something else, running 40 miles and hating them, I'll just stick with what I know works. I don't want to blow extra money on shoes. If I had the money and time to experiment I might.




OK, you're the second "don't mess with success" guy. Truth be told, I ordered the Relentless 3's earlier today. You're point is well taken, that I know what works for 500 miles. I will try these Relentless 3's, which claim to be for neutral to underpronators and if I take issue with them, I can still wear them as a casual shoe. The cool look was part of why I bought them, I tend to wear tennis shoes out and about, and the price was low.

If they give me trouble, I can go back to the ravenna 3's and not be out too much and still have the Nikes to kick around in.
2013-11-04 1:24 PM
in reply to: Aarondb4


32
25
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated
Originally posted by Aarondb4

 

Where do you run? The roads around here are all crowned to a pretty significant degree. This can make your shoes wear a bit uneven. Also contributes to some fun lower back pain sometimes. 




I run pretty exclusively on sidewalks and treadmills.
2013-11-04 2:11 PM
in reply to: slowspoke

User image


402
100100100100
Subject: RE: HELP - running shoes are complicated
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

There's a lot of talk in the running world about shoes, but really the simpler the better.

There's nothing magical about one type of shoe or another, and different things work better for different people. IMO the movement toward minimalist/less supportive shoes is overrated; if people get more injuries in these shoes it may be because they allow them to run more mileage too soon.

The key to staying injury-free is being careful to build mileage and intensity only after your body has had a chance to adapt to previous load.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HELP - running shoes are complicated Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

Local news story this AM -- Running will help you lose weight Pages: 1 2

Started by Mike_D
Views: 2663 Posts: 48

2012-12-20 8:58 AM Stuartap

HELP RUNNING SHOES!!

Started by kendallwebb
Views: 912 Posts: 12

2012-02-26 7:16 PM hromero

Running Shoe Experts, need help on Saucony shoes (Kinvara)

Started by AndrewMT
Views: 3422 Posts: 24

2010-11-17 10:30 AM AndrewMT

running shoes - help!!

Started by oiprocs1975
Views: 284 Posts: 6

2004-08-06 9:02 AM autumn

Running Shoes/Help

Started by execchef
Views: 410 Posts: 6

2004-01-03 5:34 AM MJS
RELATED ARTICLES
date : May 2, 2012
author : ahohl
comments : 3
A comprehensive look at a controversial trend-- for triathletes like you
 
date : February 28, 2012
author : greggseltzer
comments : 5
Why barefoot running is not suited for the average runner.
date : November 2, 2011
author : AMSSM
comments : 3
A doctor's take on how to safely transition to minimalist shoes and how to treat existing injuries
 
date : March 23, 2011
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
What could be causing the pain on the top of the foot at the toes? Here are some easy ways to find the cause and possibly end the pain.
date : March 9, 2010
author : AMSSM
comments : 1
Most people believe that running barefoot is dangerous. Certainly, depending upon the surface, they would be correct. However, there is some suggestion that running barefoot may reduce injuries.
 
date : May 5, 2008
author : TriPainter
comments : 0
I went into the pool area (as this was a pool swim) and got body marked. That's when it hit me that I was there to race - this was not a clinic.
date : September 2, 2004
author : chrisandniki
comments : 0
2004 Product reviews for stability shoes for neutral foot types
 
date : September 2, 2004
author : chrisandniki
comments : 0
To avoid a myriad of injuries (joint pain to your knees, ankles, hips, shin splints, foot pain, bruises), it’s invaluable to find the right running shoes.