Incognito (Page 4)

That's fine.....then what we should see next is women on the football field at NFL games....you know, in the interest of fairness, equality, and all that.  You can't just peel out the parts that you like and forget about the rest.

BTW - there are still calendar girl posters....so go ahead and ask women how they feel about them NOT being phased out.

Well....then.........NOT capable for the NFL, because intimidation and harassment are clearly an accepted part of that culture.  I didn't come up with the culture, and you can't change it without dramatically changing that game.  It's NOT a workplace like any other. I'm glad it isn't, because contrary to popular opinion, I don't happen to think everything needs to be changed to compensate for those who can't handle some things as they are.

Golic also said that he didn't mind either approach.....and had no problem not even trying to tackle in 9 on 7 drills under Ryan and just went straight for the fight.  He also said that he understood the idea of "toughening" Martin up...even if he did say he thought it went too far and that he would not have handled it like Martin did, he would have taken care of it.  Which is why he was successful in the NFL and Martin has not been. Once again, trying to say that the NFL is like any other "workplace" is clearly over the top.......it's just not. Thankfully.

And you and I are also clearly not the same......you can tell me I'm great or tell me I'm disappointing, it makes no difference to me.  I get my motivation and self worth from what I think of my effort, not someone else.  I always try my best., so I don't need encouragement, nor do I care about criticism that you could ever see....I may use it as fuel, but never give you the satisfaction of believing you had anything to do with it.  But, alas, I can't play in the NFL either without getting killed.

Bingo. At some point in the future we will have genitals genetically removed and we can all wear grey.... because we are all so enlightened and accepting of everyone as they are.... as long as we are all equal. 

I have never been the "Alpha male"... but I have always been independent. I can't for the life of me understand why all the mediocre people want to bring everyone down to their level.

I marvel at those in the elite levels of sport. It used to be about the warrior games... but we have no need for that these days. Yet we have these hand fulls of people that are the only people out of 6 billion that can do what they do. Not all in the NFL are agrressive bordering on mean... but some are. So what. It is acceptable in the culture. And like all cultures... there are lines that you don't cross. If he did, then he is out.... but we didn't have to put up with T.O. for so long because he was a great guy. I just don't get why this is a story about workplace harrasment... it might indeed be about a private citizen doing criminal acts. 

Checkmate what?  You're not even close, or maybe you just never played chess.  Yeah, everyone already agrees he's an a-hole....who cares?  I just want him on my football team.....the rest of that stuff can be handled in court. He's obviously not well suited for getting along well with others....but he's perfectly suited for what he does for a living.  That's why I watch the games.

As for your continued "workplace" argument....maybe it did apply.  It sounds to me like she got a settlement of some sort.....and once again, if that's the case, the football culture didn't care enough to make it a bigger deal or make it criminal....which it may be.  Leave football alone....deal with individuals who commit criminal acts for sure.....but there is NOTHING wrong with that "workplace" except maybe that some people don't want to watch it.....and luckily for those folks hey don't have to.

Last I checked... Suh was still starting for the Lions, and Lewis is a first ballot HOF'er.

I find that interesting as well.....maybe what it means is that Martin has a problem.  I bet he finds it hard to get work.  The other thing, people being who they are, I would be willing to bet that Dolphin players would say it was wrong too if it was happening on another team.  Just human nature.

This is turning into the weirdest story. SO the Dolphins blame Martin now?  Weird and hard to follow, or maybe I am just losing interest in all the he said he says talking points fromt he Dolphins.

Here ya go, Pitt.....this pretty much sums it up. A regular "workplace", huh? 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1840958-an-insiders-account-of-bullying-hazing-and-overall-culture-of-the-nfl?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_c2

This conversation is going in all kinds of directions.  Are we saying that because the culture of football is combative, confrontational, and harassing, that it's ok to leave voice mail messages calling someone a Half n-word and "I'm going to sh*t in your mother's mouth"?  If that IS acceptable in that culture, is that good?

I keep thinking about fraternity hazing which had been exposed severely cracked down on.  That used to be acceptable behavior, but I think some people stood up and said maybe the old ways are NOT the best ways anymore - seems the fraternities are still there and thriving, but with fewer beatings and drinking deaths.  (disclaimer, I'm making that observation based on the fact I have not heard any stories of that in years, when it seemed to happen once a year or bi-annually)

As for some of the media that were former football players - I get they need to say the PC thing, but ALSO, could they look back, a little more mature and removed from the locker room scene and say that behavior was bad?  I did some things as a kid/young adult that was "acceptable" at the time within that group, and look back and think it was stupid and wrong.  Mostly about how much I drank, or smoked or sort of treated girls a little more like objects.

I get practical jokes/"hazing".  Singing the fight song in your jock, or the Tebow monk haircut, paying for dinners or schleping the vets bags...  It's the right of passage and if everyone is ok with that.  I get it.  I can't believe that also includes voice messages like the ones left.

I have no doubt Incognito is a great football player and team mate on the field, but you don't have to do what he did to do that.  Everyone says Peyton Manning makes and entire team better by example and work ethic.  He doesn't do it with harassing phone calls and texts.

People aren't seeing the forest for the tress. It's almost laughable to read some of the posts and how people are rationalizing this behavior, except that it's not funny. It's disturbing.

What I have been saying is that we need to stay out of the NFL and let the NFL handle itself.  There is no way for us to judge what goes on in that "workplace"......simply because it does not resemble any workplace on the planet.  It's a job that only a HUGELY SMALL part of our population can even hope to do....and part of that job appears to be putting up with intimidation and harrassment......in fact, those who can deal with that the best often thrive the most.

If changes need to be made then they need to be made within the NFL:.....not bound by rules made for a more common "workplace".

Martin couldn't handle the job.....simple as that.  He is certainly entitled to handle the situtation as he sees fit, but it doesn't change the fact that he couldn't handle the job.

Read what the players themselves say about their "workplace".....read some of the quotes in the article I linked by a former player who was harrassed and considered "weird'.   Again, there is such an extrememly small group of people who "work" in that "workplace" I don't  get why we would even attempt to understand it or make it something that fits our idea of a "normal workplace"...... that's just silly.

Is that the right thing to do?  I can think of many examples where things are "cool" within a group/organization/nation, that once exposed to the light, people see the wrong in it and outsiders need to speak up.

If outsiders see abuse, is it right to just say "let them handle their own business" and ignore it?  I'm curious when we let hate speech go just because it's cool in that particular culture/environment/workplace.

Maybe it's silly, or maybe they can't see the forest because they are the trees.

Kido - there is nobody that has played football up to that level who doesn't know that's part of the game.....NOBODY.  One of the guys who works for me is a former Div. II college player......he's broke down laughing at this crap.  He said he wished he had a dollar for every time he called someone a cracker or they called him the N word.....he said it's just part of the game.

I suppose we can look from the outside and make any rules we want.....oh wait, we already have....and the players of that league ignore them and carry on with their culture.  So yeah, I guess if it makes everyone feel better we can come up with some more rules that we all like......but we're not going to change that culture.  Nor should we.

It's their forest....they can police it as they see fit.   Martin will get a settlement and his behavior will further instill the idea that you don't go outside the locker room with this crap.....and life in the NFL will go on.

They could up 'til now anyway. Things will never be the same.