General Discussion Triathlon Talk » So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :) Rss Feed  
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2013-11-06 7:11 AM

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Subject: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

This is just a PSA to invite you to join the Swim Speed Secrets book discussion that we'll be having in the Challenge Forum beginning November 15th.  Anyone is welcome to join :) I will also be doing the Swim Speed Secret Workouts during that time and posting the sessions in my training log for anyone who wants to see the sets, however, these workouts come highly recommended, so you may want to purchase the set of laminated cards for yourself.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=500040&posts=1&page=1

 

A little encouragement to do a swim focus:

Though I have known how to swim (grew up with a pool, was a lifeguard), I never was on a competitive team and when I started swimming last fall training for my first tri, I was clinging to the wall gasping after every 50.  Really.  I was leaving the pool so, so, frustrated that I just couldn't "get" it..  I kept putting off swimming, thinking it would come, but it became clear that on 2x/week of <2000yds/session, my swim was going nowhere.

Then late last winter I did about 8 weeks of a swim focus, 5-6 days a week, and built up to >3000yds/session.  Ta-da!  That helped tremendously!  I was able to do my OWS swims this year without fear and fresh enough to finish my races--success!

I had been planning on focusing on running this fall, but an injury forced me to the pool instead.  So about four weeks ago, I read Swim Speed Secrets, and it was one ah-ha moment after another.  This book is AWESOME! I wish, wish wish, I had read it earlier.  The pictures are SO helpful.  Maybe it's just me, maybe this book clicked for me because I was just in a good place to receive the information, but if you are struggling with your swim, please check it out--even if you don't do the book club :)

In four weeks of swimming 4-5x week this fall, I've dropped a considerable chunk of time off my swim again.  The frequency of days in the water in combination with the book has been key.  If you haven't done a swim focus, I really urge you to consider it.

Did I mention you should do a swim focus? :)

 



2013-11-06 11:28 AM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Sounds good but I'm signed up for a week of running idiocy in January.  Once that's over I'll find myself back in the pool though.

2013-11-06 12:25 PM
in reply to: switch


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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
That book is awesome.

I like her philosophy.

I use the swim cards to supplement the distance workouts in the general plans on this site. That works out great.
2013-11-06 12:50 PM
in reply to: vaughn.temple

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
Thank you so much for posting this - I was trying to remember which book everyone was recommending a while back.

Time to make my holiday shopping list
2013-11-06 3:16 PM
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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
Crazy timing for you to post this, had a rather frustrating session this am in master swim. Hate that feeling of being in the way ( although the 2 ladies were very kind you can only get lapped so many times before it gets to you). Might be time to get swim focused.

Edited by PowerRuff 2013-11-06 3:18 PM
2013-11-06 7:49 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
Perfect timing! I just bought the book and workouts and I'm planning to start the program in December (after some off time from IMFL).


2013-11-06 8:45 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Perfect timing of this for me as I just got the book and the workouts.  I'll thank you in advance for the help this will be switch!  

 

2013-11-06 9:30 PM
in reply to: bswcpa

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
I bought this book about a month ago and have been working on applying it. Unfortunately, I can't get to a pool more than 2 x per week but I'm with you in spirit.
2013-11-06 11:34 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
My swim focus this winter:

M: AM easy 2k recovery PM: swim w/ high school team
T: PM swim w/ high school team
W: AM Solo PM: swim w/ high school team
R: AM Group Swim laid back (recovery)
F: AM Master's (2.5-3k)
Sa: AM Group of friends I swim with (hard short intense sets) PM: Optional
Su: OFF

*Note: Not every week will be this heavy but I am aiming for 5-6 days a week, w/ 2 double days as well
Keys:
There will always be someone faster then me in my lane
No one session will be more then 3k, but I'll gain volume through frequency
Swimming with high schoolers that can swim with the front Kona pack in IM, at least a couple of them can.

2013-11-07 6:57 AM
in reply to: b2run

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by b2run I bought this book about a month ago and have been working on applying it. Unfortunately, I can't get to a pool more than 2 x per week but I'm with you in spirit.

This is me - closest pool is a 40 min drive . I hope to add another day on the weekends during the winter when the weather is too nasty to get out and ride or run. But for now, if we have a decent weather on a Saturday I'm still on my bike.

The book sounds great though!

2013-11-07 9:57 AM
in reply to: b2run


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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
Originally posted by b2run
I bought this book about a month ago and have been working on applying it. Unfortunately, I can't get to a pool more than 2 x per week but I'm with you in spirit.


Yeah pretty much the same. Got the book about 6 months ago and really like it. I just can't get to the pool 5-6 times per week. I'll be following along though and checking out your logs for workout ideas.


2013-11-07 10:02 AM
in reply to: mtnbikerchk

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Okay, I found the book on Amazon, but where do I find the laminated cards that were mentioned?  Are they in the Swim Speed Secrets Workout book?  

2013-11-07 10:49 AM
in reply to: blueyedbikergirl

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by blueyedbikergirl

Okay, I found the book on Amazon, but where do I find the laminated cards that were mentioned?  Are they in the Swim Speed Secrets Workout book?  

Yes, from the link above: Includes 75 instructional, waterproof cards, booklet and carrying case.

2013-11-07 10:51 AM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by bcagle25 My swim focus this winter: M: AM easy 2k recovery PM: swim w/ high school team T: PM swim w/ high school team W: AM Solo PM: swim w/ high school team R: AM Group Swim laid back (recovery) F: AM Master's (2.5-3k) Sa: AM Group of friends I swim with (hard short intense sets) PM: Optional Su: OFF *Note: Not every week will be this heavy but I am aiming for 5-6 days a week, w/ 2 double days as well Keys: There will always be someone faster then me in my lane No one session will be more then 3k, but I'll gain volume through frequency Swimming with high schoolers that can swim with the front Kona pack in IM, at least a couple of them can.

Hey, thanks for sharing this Ben.  That sounds like a plan!

Why do you limit your sessions to 3K?

Would you mind sharing what your other training looks like on a week w/ swimming like this?

 

2013-11-07 11:06 AM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by blueyedbikergirl

Okay, I found the book on Amazon, but where do I find the laminated cards that were mentioned?  Are they in the Swim Speed Secrets Workout book?  

Yes, from the link above: Includes 75 instructional, waterproof cards, booklet and carrying case.

Shoot, I missed that part.  Thank you! 

2013-11-07 11:53 AM
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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by bcagle25 My swim focus this winter: M: AM easy 2k recovery PM: swim w/ high school team T: PM swim w/ high school team W: AM Solo PM: swim w/ high school team R: AM Group Swim laid back (recovery) F: AM Master's (2.5-3k) Sa: AM Group of friends I swim with (hard short intense sets) PM: Optional Su: OFF *Note: Not every week will be this heavy but I am aiming for 5-6 days a week, w/ 2 double days as well Keys: There will always be someone faster then me in my lane No one session will be more then 3k, but I'll gain volume through frequency Swimming with high schoolers that can swim with the front Kona pack in IM, at least a couple of them can.

Hey, thanks for sharing this Ben.  That sounds like a plan!

Why do you limit your sessions to 3K?

Would you mind sharing what your other training looks like on a week w/ swimming like this?

 




It comes down to quality over quantity, but I will still get in a large amount of volume. Avg session 2.5k x avg sessions per week 7-8=17.5-20k per week. This shows I will get in more volume then most by going with the approach of frequency x consistency=volume.

Why am I maxing out at 3k? Mainly for the reason that fatigue really effects stroke mechanics, and this off-seasons aim is to improve my stroke mechanics and power. I have plenty of volume in the past, so I don't need to do any crazy 5k swims, those I will use in my race specific prep. This is also why I am swimming with several squads and always keeping someone better then me in my lane.

I am also going to be doing 25-200 max intervals, again same theology exists here as not swimming over 3k.

This is a 4-month program I have designed on my own with input from Darren Smith, Joe Filliol, and a couple of high volume pro triathletes.

I have been a consistent 23:xx olympic swimmer, 30-31 HIM swimmer, and for next season I am trying to break more into the FOP with LESS EFFORT, meaning I am in a better position out of T1 with less energy expended.

IMO I think drilling oneself with 3-5k swims in the off-seaon, unless from a very strong swim background is the wrong way to go.

I also have my usual new years day 100x100 set that I do with friends, so that will be my one BIG session.

I plan on writing this experience into my bog and I will come back with results in March.

Edited by bcagle25 2013-11-07 11:54 AM


2013-11-07 12:10 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by bcagle25 My swim focus this winter: M: AM easy 2k recovery PM: swim w/ high school team T: PM swim w/ high school team W: AM Solo PM: swim w/ high school team R: AM Group Swim laid back (recovery) F: AM Master's (2.5-3k) Sa: AM Group of friends I swim with (hard short intense sets) PM: Optional Su: OFF *Note: Not every week will be this heavy but I am aiming for 5-6 days a week, w/ 2 double days as well Keys: There will always be someone faster then me in my lane No one session will be more then 3k, but I'll gain volume through frequency Swimming with high schoolers that can swim with the front Kona pack in IM, at least a couple of them can.

Hey, thanks for sharing this Ben.  That sounds like a plan!

Why do you limit your sessions to 3K?

Would you mind sharing what your other training looks like on a week w/ swimming like this?

 

It comes down to quality over quantity, but I will still get in a large amount of volume. Avg session 2.5k x avg sessions per week 7-8=17.5-20k per week. This shows I will get in more volume then most by going with the approach of frequency x consistency=volume. Why am I maxing out at 3k? Mainly for the reason that fatigue really effects stroke mechanics, and this off-seasons aim is to improve my stroke mechanics and power. I have plenty of volume in the past, so I don't need to do any crazy 5k swims, those I will use in my race specific prep. This is also why I am swimming with several squads and always keeping someone better then me in my lane. I am also going to be doing 25-200 max intervals, again same theology exists here as not swimming over 3k. This is a 4-month program I have designed on my own with input from Darren Smith, Joe Filliol, and a couple of high volume pro triathletes. I have been a consistent 23:xx olympic swimmer, 30-31 HIM swimmer, and for next season I am trying to break more into the FOP with LESS EFFORT, meaning I am in a better position out of T1 with less energy expended. IMO I think drilling oneself with 3-5k swims in the off-seaon, unless from a very strong swim background is the wrong way to go. I also have my usual new years day 100x100 set that I do with friends, so that will be my one BIG session. I plan on writing this experience into my bog and I will come back with results in March.

Thanks for the info. That makes a lot of sense, and it will be interesting to read about what this does for you.

I really tend to fall apart after 3K, and I've been wondering what, if anything the yds I do over that are doing for me, but I end up rationalizing that "real" swimmers do many more yds than that,  it's just mental, and I need to push through to eventually be able to do higher yardage with less fatigue.  After reading your thoughts, maybe not...

I would love to be able to get 7 sessions a week!  For those of us who can't make it to the pool that often and don't have "plenty of volume in the past", do you still think 3-5K swims are too much?  Let's say you can swim 4x/week, would you still recommend less volume/session?  Perhaps it's too individual and goal specific a question?

 

2013-11-07 1:10 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by switch

I would love to be able to get 7 sessions a week!  For those of us who can't make it to the pool that often and don't have "plenty of volume in the past", do you still think 3-5K swims are too much?  Let's say you can swim 4x/week, would you still recommend less volume/session?  Perhaps it's too individual and goal specific a question?

 

I think it is pretty individual.  How long is that 3-5k session going to take?  As a stronger swimmer 3000 meters is going to take me an hour or less.  3k-4k is what I think of as my sweet spot for a good solid workout when I'm in good swim shape.  5k is getting to the point where it might affect other workouts that day. For someone who isn't as fast, those distances would be tough to do on a regular basis.

2013-11-07 3:20 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by switch

I would love to be able to get 7 sessions a week!  For those of us who can't make it to the pool that often and don't have "plenty of volume in the past", do you still think 3-5K swims are too much?  Let's say you can swim 4x/week, would you still recommend less volume/session?  Perhaps it's too individual and goal specific a question?

 

I think it is pretty individual.  How long is that 3-5k session going to take?  As a stronger swimmer 3000 meters is going to take me an hour or less.  3k-4k is what I think of as my sweet spot for a good solid workout when I'm in good swim shape.  5k is getting to the point where it might affect other workouts that day. For someone who isn't as fast, those distances would be tough to do on a regular basis.

Thanks Arend :)

I swim 3K yards in an hour, however, it absolutely affects any other workouts I have in a day.

2013-11-08 9:03 AM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)
So I saw your post and on impulse downloaded the book to my iPad. Have almost finished the book. Easy read and I do like how she focuses on just one area, pull. That is in my opinion so hard about swimming, there is so much going on at once that you have to think about that I get lost in all of it. Now I can focus on one thing that really is the most important, the pull. I have only been swimming for 1 1/2 years and competed in 6 tris this year with a HIM a few weeks ago. Swimming is by far my hardest of the 3. So got to the pool this morning and just focused on the pull, doing drills she has in the book, etc. Not worrying about distance, just form. Well I probably didn't even swim 1000 meters and I am beat! It is like starting over. The high elbow really took a lot out of me but I will say, I feel like with more practice, endurance and strength training, this will make be a better swimmer. Never Olympic caliber, but a lot better than I am right now. There really is no shortcuts, and as my middle school band teacher used to say "perfect practice makes perfect". Thanks for the post.
Jerred
2013-11-08 10:26 AM
in reply to: puzzlecreek

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by puzzlecreek So I saw your post and on impulse downloaded the book to my iPad. Have almost finished the book. Easy read and I do like how she focuses on just one area, pull. That is in my opinion so hard about swimming, there is so much going on at once that you have to think about that I get lost in all of it. Now I can focus on one thing that really is the most important, the pull. I have only been swimming for 1 1/2 years and competed in 6 tris this year with a HIM a few weeks ago. Swimming is by far my hardest of the 3. So got to the pool this morning and just focused on the pull, doing drills she has in the book, etc. Not worrying about distance, just form. Well I probably didn't even swim 1000 meters and I am beat! It is like starting over. The high elbow really took a lot out of me but I will say, I feel like with more practice, endurance and strength training, this will make be a better swimmer. Never Olympic caliber, but a lot better than I am right now. There really is no shortcuts, and as my middle school band teacher used to say "perfect practice makes perfect". Thanks for the post. Jerred

That's awesome Jerred!

I hope you'll join us for the challenge :)



2013-11-08 11:51 AM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: So, you want to work on your swim this winter? Hint: you should :)

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by bcagle25 My swim focus this winter: M: AM easy 2k recovery PM: swim w/ high school team T: PM swim w/ high school team W: AM Solo PM: swim w/ high school team R: AM Group Swim laid back (recovery) F: AM Master's (2.5-3k) Sa: AM Group of friends I swim with (hard short intense sets) PM: Optional Su: OFF *Note: Not every week will be this heavy but I am aiming for 5-6 days a week, w/ 2 double days as well Keys: There will always be someone faster then me in my lane No one session will be more then 3k, but I'll gain volume through frequency Swimming with high schoolers that can swim with the front Kona pack in IM, at least a couple of them can.

Hey, thanks for sharing this Ben.  That sounds like a plan!

Why do you limit your sessions to 3K?

Would you mind sharing what your other training looks like on a week w/ swimming like this?

 

It comes down to quality over quantity, but I will still get in a large amount of volume. Avg session 2.5k x avg sessions per week 7-8=17.5-20k per week. This shows I will get in more volume then most by going with the approach of frequency x consistency=volume. Why am I maxing out at 3k? Mainly for the reason that fatigue really effects stroke mechanics, and this off-seasons aim is to improve my stroke mechanics and power. I have plenty of volume in the past, so I don't need to do any crazy 5k swims, those I will use in my race specific prep. This is also why I am swimming with several squads and always keeping someone better then me in my lane. I am also going to be doing 25-200 max intervals, again same theology exists here as not swimming over 3k. This is a 4-month program I have designed on my own with input from Darren Smith, Joe Filliol, and a couple of high volume pro triathletes. I have been a consistent 23:xx olympic swimmer, 30-31 HIM swimmer, and for next season I am trying to break more into the FOP with LESS EFFORT, meaning I am in a better position out of T1 with less energy expended. IMO I think drilling oneself with 3-5k swims in the off-seaon, unless from a very strong swim background is the wrong way to go. I also have my usual new years day 100x100 set that I do with friends, so that will be my one BIG session. I plan on writing this experience into my bog and I will come back with results in March.

 

Ben, I am NOT doing 100x100 on New Year's Day.  Just so we clear that up

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