General Discussion Triathlon Talk » base training vs winter training Rss Feed  
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2013-11-07 6:09 PM

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Subject: base training vs winter training
I'm looking into plans to keep me fit over the winter season. Whats the difference between base training and winter training. I know this maybe a total newby questions but all my tries so far ive just kinda been winging it, thinking of actually training properly this time


2013-11-07 6:25 PM
in reply to: nickih

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
These terms don't really mean anything on an absolute basis but are more meaningful in the context of your overall training. For most people "base training" means what you do before you start a specific race training season, but it can mean many different things-- some people will focus on a running base or swimming base while outdoor riding might be less convenient. Others will have more balanced training.

"Winter training" doesn't really mean anything other than what you do in the winter. For some people it will be some form of base training, while others will be doing more specific training or race training.

So what you do kinda depends on where you're at now and where you want to be when your race season training starts. Some people will tell you to focus on your weak sport; others will just say pick a plan that has you consistent in everything.
2013-11-07 8:08 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
okay great so I am planning on doing about 3 sprints next year and have done a sprint before. Results well I finished which is what i was trying to accomplish. I would like todo better ofcourse this year. I'm a good swimmer but could use extra endurance there( meaning FOP in tri a try swims but MOP in the sprint swim), good bicyclist (I can ride foerver but not super fast)and a terrible runner.

Apparenlty from what I'm gathering by looking at the different plans on training peaks and here it doesnt seem to really matter what race your planning on completing the next year but more on how much time I have available is this because when you get to well january/february ish here you pick a particular training plan for the distance you want to complete.

Should i just pick a plan that focuses on my weakness running then and get an extra swim in when I can?

Any other ideas
2013-11-07 8:33 PM
in reply to: nickih

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
It really depends on your fitness level and your goals. During the winter I try to make sure I maintain a pretty good level of fitness and work on technique where I need it. When spring arrives, I want to have a good base of fitness and I want to have fixed up some of my technique problems. That way I can start ratcheting up my fitness and hopefully keep the technique for the summer.

Please put in punctuation. It's hard to understand your writing.
2013-11-12 8:55 PM
in reply to: nickih

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Now for some people they can be one in the same. The "winter training" comes in for people with a geography that they get a "true winter" that limits what they can do outside because of snow, ice, temp etc... They transition into indoor training which may change their workout structure. In the controlled environment of indoors a lot of quality can be compressed into shorter durations when you don't have to battle cars, traffic lights, weather etc... Also, some people just do not tolerate long indoor sessions compared to outdoors.

Base training for my athletes is a mesocycle when working on General Physical Preparedness, technical/physiological limiters, and the most persistent adaptations tailored to the athletes specific event or goals is done. Some people make the mistake of thinking of Base as miles. Base should not be synonymous with volume in all scenarios.

Best in Health,

Scott Proscia, BS ATC M.Ed
Head Performance Coach
IREP Athletics LLC
www.irepathletics.com
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2013-11-13 7:49 AM
in reply to: #4894742

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
You have ahead some interesting and detailed responses. Here is a simple angle...

This past fall I did two sprints and I want to do more, bigger, faster, stronger this next spring/summer. Running is my weak link so I am focusing on a running block of training for the winter. I am doing a base building program which is 19 weeks and will bring my from 11 miles per week up to 35. From there I will maintain a high level of running mileage (for me) and add in biking, which also needs work.

I still consistently swim masters, 3 x per week.
Swim and run will be my year round work out because that is comfortable and do able. Adding in the bike constututes 'tri training' for me. I need work on the bike but I can't maintain all three year round!
My thought is that winter training should focus in what needs the most attention (running for me) and maintining some of my fitness base (keep swimming).


2013-11-13 8:03 AM
in reply to: nickih

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Originally posted by nickih

okay great so I am planning on doing about 3 sprints next year and have done a sprint before. Results well I finished which is what i was trying to accomplish. I would like todo better ofcourse this year. I'm a good swimmer but could use extra endurance there( meaning FOP in tri a try swims but MOP in the sprint swim), good bicyclist (I can ride foerver but not super fast)and a terrible runner.

Apparenlty from what I'm gathering by looking at the different plans on training peaks and here it doesnt seem to really matter what race your planning on completing the next year but more on how much time I have available is this because when you get to well january/february ish here you pick a particular training plan for the distance you want to complete.

Should i just pick a plan that focuses on my weakness running then and get an extra swim in when I can?

Any other ideas


The winter is a perfect to spend more time on you weakness. If you can find a plan that has more of a run focus, that would probably be best for you. If not, find a plan that has fewer hours than you have available and throw in an extra run or two.

Running is something that you need to develop over a reasonable amount of time to avoid injury. The sooner you start and the more gradual the build up, the better

Eventually you will want to run some of your training at a higher pace. But to do that you want a solid base of running where you have built up the ligaments, tendons, muscle to support that speed work. Running in the winter will work towards that

If running is your weakness, it's a no brainer. Put a little more time in the run (proportionally to the other disciplines).
2013-11-13 8:07 AM
in reply to: dace

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Disclaimer: I am not a personal trainer but all the "base training" stuff I've been doing is on the indoor bike trainer and it mostly to improve aerobic endurance so it's not a bunch of intervals and to provide muscular endurance. After that the builds start to hit the intervals to increase aerobic capacity.
2013-11-13 8:28 AM
in reply to: Jtiger

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Originally posted by Jtiger

Disclaimer: I am not a personal trainer but all the "base training" stuff I've been doing is on the indoor bike trainer and it mostly to improve aerobic endurance so it's not a bunch of intervals and to provide muscular endurance. After that the builds start to hit the intervals to increase aerobic capacity.


I was wondering if you could clarify what you mean by aerobic endurance as opposed to aerobic capacity; I'm unclear on what you are trying to say in terms of how you are approaching "base training."

Shane
2013-11-13 8:40 AM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
I am going to throw out another shameless plug for the BarryP run program since you're admit running is the weakest of the 3 disciplines for you. You describe me perfectly. Good swimmer - middle to front of pack. Bike - MOP but can go for ever if I go slow enough. Run - dam I hate it! I used to avoid it like the plague and am BOP each and every time.

So this winter (off season or base building time) (See what I did there?) I am focusing on my run. Anyway here is a link to the BarryP run training program: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=r...

I am also looking at rejoining a masters swim class as well and will let my bike go for a few months while I do this plan this winter.

So basically BarryP is all about running and running lots. However running lots means lots of low mileage and low intensity running. The way it works is you run 6 days a week if you can. You run it in a ratio of 3:2:1 meaning 3 short runs, 2 medium runs and 1 long run. You will want to start with total weekly time or miles you wish to run. The way you calculate the distances you run for those is lets say you are starting at 10 miles per week. You divide 10 by 10. So that would equal 1. That means your short runs are 1 mile. Your medium run will be twice the distance of your short run. So your medium run will be 2 miles. Your long run will be 3 x your short run. So (3x1) + (2x2) + 3 = 10 miles total for the week. Once you are comfortable with runnning 10 miles per week you gradually increase you miles by no more than 10% per week, So when you are ready for a slight bump up in miles, at 10% that would bring your weekly mileage up to 11 miles. Short run would then equal 1.1 miles etc.. Notice I said no more than 10%. That means if you arent ready for 10% you could bump it up 5% or not at all.

Anyway, starting this plan, the lower mileage will seem ridiculously short, and you should run these at a ridiculously slow pace. I just started this plan this week and started at 10 miles. I am not worried about my pace and am only using my gps to make sure I dont go over mileage. I am not even looking at pace. So last nights run, I just went out and ran at a pace where I wasnt breathing heavy came out to about an 11:45 per min mile.... I used to go out and tried to keep everything under a 10 min per mile pace...

2013-11-13 9:00 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by Jtiger

Disclaimer: I am not a personal trainer but all the "base training" stuff I've been doing is on the indoor bike trainer and it mostly to improve aerobic endurance so it's not a bunch of intervals and to provide muscular endurance. After that the builds start to hit the intervals to increase aerobic capacity.


I was wondering if you could clarify what you mean by aerobic endurance as opposed to aerobic capacity; I'm unclear on what you are trying to say in terms of how you are approaching "base training."

Shane


My understanding of it is to be able to ride/run at a lower intensity for longer period of time meaning condition your lungs as compared to muscles then the muscle endurance conditioning start. It also talks about conditioning you body to utilize fat as a primary fuel source. That is the program I'm on right now to ride longer at lower intensity then the threshold stuff starts.

The program I'm using is on trainneroad.com with "virtual" power.

So far so good. I'm pretty good a short fast rides but the long rides kill me and this seems to be helping in week 3 so far.



2013-11-13 9:09 AM
in reply to: Jtiger

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Originally posted by Jtiger

The program I'm using is on trainneroad.com with "virtual" power.

So far so good. I'm pretty good a short fast rides but the long rides kill me and this seems to be helping in week 3 so far.




What do the workouts look like ?
2013-11-13 9:21 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Jtiger

The program I'm using is on trainneroad.com with "virtual" power.

So far so good. I'm pretty good a short fast rides but the long rides kill me and this seems to be helping in week 3 so far.




What do the workouts look like ?


They are 90-120 minutes long in the first phase of the base. Anywhere from 60-75% of your FTP.
2013-11-14 4:49 PM
in reply to: Jtiger

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Originally posted by Jtiger

My understanding of it is to be able to ride/run at a lower intensity for longer period of time meaning condition your lungs as compared to muscles then the muscle endurance conditioning start. It also talks about conditioning you body to utilize fat as a primary fuel source. That is the program I'm on right now to ride longer at lower intensity then the threshold stuff starts.


I would suggest that if you have some experience on the bike, then you would likely be better served with some intensity now as opposed to waiting until later. Most age group athletes don't have enough time to ride to make easy riding stressful enough to see gains.

Everything we do in triathlon training is (or should be) primarily aerobic in nature so whether you are riding lots at L2 (say 10 hours per week) or doing shorter more focused workouts in L4 and L5, you're improving your aerobic conditioning and should see improved triathlon performance as a result.

Shane
2013-11-14 9:23 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Oh wow all of sudden I look at the board and there is my post back up yahoo!! Tons of great info everyone. I have decided on doing a tri maintenance plan focused on running until I start to ramp it up this spring. I will have to adjust it though for the winter since I live in the great white north. I can complete some of the workouts on a indoor track. Thanks everybody.
2013-11-17 12:28 AM
in reply to: orphious

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Subject: RE: base training vs winter training
Originally posted by orphious

I am going to throw out another shameless plug for the BarryP run program since you're admit running is the weakest of the 3 disciplines for you. You describe me perfectly. Good swimmer - middle to front of pack. Bike - MOP but can go for ever if I go slow enough. Run - dam I hate it! I used to avoid it like the plague and am BOP each and every time.

So this winter (off season or base building time) (See what I did there?) I am focusing on my run. Anyway here is a link to the BarryP run training program: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1612485;search_string=r...

I am also looking at rejoining a masters swim class as well and will let my bike go for a few months while I do this plan this winter.

So basically BarryP is all about running and running lots. However running lots means lots of low mileage and low intensity running. The way it works is you run 6 days a week if you can. You run it in a ratio of 3:2:1 meaning 3 short runs, 2 medium runs and 1 long run. You will want to start with total weekly time or miles you wish to run. The way you calculate the distances you run for those is lets say you are starting at 10 miles per week. You divide 10 by 10. So that would equal 1. That means your short runs are 1 mile. Your medium run will be twice the distance of your short run. So your medium run will be 2 miles. Your long run will be 3 x your short run. So (3x1) + (2x2) + 3 = 10 miles total for the week. Once you are comfortable with runnning 10 miles per week you gradually increase you miles by no more than 10% per week, So when you are ready for a slight bump up in miles, at 10% that would bring your weekly mileage up to 11 miles. Short run would then equal 1.1 miles etc.. Notice I said no more than 10%. That means if you arent ready for 10% you could bump it up 5% or not at all.

Anyway, starting this plan, the lower mileage will seem ridiculously short, and you should run these at a ridiculously slow pace. I just started this plan this week and started at 10 miles. I am not worried about my pace and am only using my gps to make sure I dont go over mileage. I am not even looking at pace. So last nights run, I just went out and ran at a pace where I wasnt breathing heavy came out to about an 11:45 per min mile.... I used to go out and tried to keep everything under a 10 min per mile pace...


i would love to start this plan this week, but what is unclear to me is do you start your week with the short run or the long run? Looks like a great program.


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