General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Trainer Road Base Build Programs Rss Feed  
Moderators: jmk-brooklyn, Ron Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
2013-11-17 4:02 PM
in reply to: marcag


180
100252525
Arden, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by marcag



To the OP : did you get an answer to your question ?


Oh Hell yea, and then some. I'm not in front of a computer very often so thats why I've been so slow at responding. The information in this thread was fantastic, I never heard of the 300 TSS goal per week before so that's really helpful as a data point to shoot for.

I still would like to get an outdoor workout in on the weekend when the weather cooperates, but without a power meter, is there any way to get a rough estimate of my TSS for an outdoor ride?

I looked over my past workouts using the Training Road program and it doesn't get me anywhere close. For instance, the three workouts it has me do, gave me a total of just over 200 for the week and that's in about 4 hours. On the other hand, when I was doing sufferfest last winter I would get over 300 in just 3 hours. I'm really going for time efficiency right now so clearly going back to sufferfest is the way to go.

I figured that was the answer, but I suppose I was hoping that someone might've told me that following the Training Road plan would be more beneficial in building an aerobic base! Not so much luck, I suppose I'm back to killing myself with sufferfest.

Its good to know also that I need to shoot for 300. Makes sense though since that's about what I was getting this past winter and I made substantial gains over those months.



2013-11-17 4:21 PM
in reply to: TriDadinAsheville

User image

Extreme Veteran
2827
200050010010010025
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville

Originally posted by marcag



To the OP : did you get an answer to your question ?


Oh Hell yea, and then some. I'm not in front of a computer very often so thats why I've been so slow at responding. The information in this thread was fantastic, I never heard of the 300 TSS goal per week before so that's really helpful as a data point to shoot for.

I still would like to get an outdoor workout in on the weekend when the weather cooperates, but without a power meter, is there any way to get a rough estimate of my TSS for an outdoor ride?

I looked over my past workouts using the Training Road program and it doesn't get me anywhere close. For instance, the three workouts it has me do, gave me a total of just over 200 for the week and that's in about 4 hours. On the other hand, when I was doing sufferfest last winter I would get over 300 in just 3 hours. I'm really going for time efficiency right now so clearly going back to sufferfest is the way to go.

I figured that was the answer, but I suppose I was hoping that someone might've told me that following the Training Road plan would be more beneficial in building an aerobic base! Not so much luck, I suppose I'm back to killing myself with sufferfest.

Its good to know also that I need to shoot for 300. Makes sense though since that's about what I was getting this past winter and I made substantial gains over those months.




excellent !

Don't take the 300 as a hard number but a guideline. 200 is low, 270-300 is what I shoot for in the winter while doing a lot of running. I go as high as 500-600 during the sunmer but with less running. But I also do more than average.


2013-11-17 4:27 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Extreme Veteran
2827
200050010010010025
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville



I still would like to get an outdoor workout in on the weekend when the weather cooperates, but without a power meter, is there any way to get a rough estimate of my TSS for an outdoor ride?



Do you have a HR monitor and do you know your zones ?

This is the Training Peaks article on how to do it.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/estimating-training-...


Training peaks does it automatically for you

Edited by marcag 2013-11-17 4:30 PM
2013-11-17 5:32 PM
in reply to: brigby1

User image

Extreme Veteran
720
500100100
Langley, BC, 'Wet Coast' Canada
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Thanks for the vo2 interval clarification.
2013-11-17 6:11 PM
in reply to: 0


1292
1000100100252525
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville

Originally posted by marcag



To the OP : did you get an answer to your question ?


Oh Hell yea, and then some. I'm not in front of a computer very often so thats why I've been so slow at responding. The information in this thread was fantastic, I never heard of the 300 TSS goal per week before so that's really helpful as a data point to shoot for.

I still would like to get an outdoor workout in on the weekend when the weather cooperates, but without a power meter, is there any way to get a rough estimate of my TSS for an outdoor ride?

I looked over my past workouts using the Training Road program and it doesn't get me anywhere close. For instance, the three workouts it has me do, gave me a total of just over 200 for the week and that's in about 4 hours. On the other hand, when I was doing sufferfest last winter I would get over 300 in just 3 hours. I'm really going for time efficiency right now so clearly going back to sufferfest is the way to go.

I figured that was the answer, but I suppose I was hoping that someone might've told me that following the Training Road plan would be more beneficial in building an aerobic base! Not so much luck, I suppose I'm back to killing myself with sufferfest.

Its good to know also that I need to shoot for 300. Makes sense though since that's about what I was getting this past winter and I made substantial gains over those months.




I actually rarely use Sufferfest and almost exclusively use TrainerRoad workouts. (HIM training.) I still rode outdoors 1x/week last season, but this time around I'm going essentially all-indoors. Had a good race result - 2nd AG bike split in my HIM M35-40 and overall USAT score that race near 90 which was a PR (even with a meltdown on the run.)

I don't think you'll go wrong with going 'all Sufferfest', but as you're finding out, it can be (brutally) hard, especially if you're doing them at Trainerroad intensity. I used to use them a lot more, but I honestly got mentally burned out after <4 weeks of doing more than 1 per week to the point I no longer wanted to even do indoor training, which to me was a very bad result. I now only use them in the few weeks prior to race day, when I'm in near-peak form.

However, if you're motivated enough to keep at it, you'll obviously benefit greatly - both in terms of fitness AND time efficiency! Just throw in an occasional long outdoor ride in there, and you'll be good to go for 56 mile race day.

ANd FWIW - I consider myself time crunched as well (?who doesn't?) The only time I can get workouts reliably in is between 4-6AM before my 3 year old kid or wife are awake. Even with this time constraint, I find those 5-6 hrs of Z2 riding much more physically and mentally sustainable over months than those killer Sufferfest workouts day in day out.

Edited by yazmaster 2013-11-17 6:15 PM
2013-11-17 7:19 PM
in reply to: yazmaster


180
100252525
Arden, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by yazmaster

Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville

Originally posted by marcag



To the OP : did you get an answer to your question ?


Oh Hell yea, and then some. I'm not in front of a computer very often so thats why I've been so slow at responding. The information in this thread was fantastic, I never heard of the 300 TSS goal per week before so that's really helpful as a data point to shoot for.

I still would like to get an outdoor workout in on the weekend when the weather cooperates, but without a power meter, is there any way to get a rough estimate of my TSS for an outdoor ride?

I looked over my past workouts using the Training Road program and it doesn't get me anywhere close. For instance, the three workouts it has me do, gave me a total of just over 200 for the week and that's in about 4 hours. On the other hand, when I was doing sufferfest last winter I would get over 300 in just 3 hours. I'm really going for time efficiency right now so clearly going back to sufferfest is the way to go.

I figured that was the answer, but I suppose I was hoping that someone might've told me that following the Training Road plan would be more beneficial in building an aerobic base! Not so much luck, I suppose I'm back to killing myself with sufferfest.

Its good to know also that I need to shoot for 300. Makes sense though since that's about what I was getting this past winter and I made substantial gains over those months.




I actually rarely use Sufferfest and almost exclusively use TrainerRoad workouts. (HIM training.) I still rode outdoors 1x/week last season, but this time around I'm going essentially all-indoors. Had a good race result - 2nd AG bike split in my HIM M35-40 and overall USAT score that race near 90 which was a PR (even with a meltdown on the run.)

I don't think you'll go wrong with going 'all Sufferfest', but as you're finding out, it can be (brutally) hard, especially if you're doing them at Trainerroad intensity. I used to use them a lot more, but I honestly got mentally burned out after <4 weeks of doing more than 1 per week to the point I no longer wanted to even do indoor training, which to me was a very bad result. I now only use them in the few weeks prior to race day, when I'm in near-peak form.

However, if you're motivated enough to keep at it, you'll obviously benefit greatly - both in terms of fitness AND time efficiency! Just throw in an occasional long outdoor ride in there, and you'll be good to go for 56 mile race day.

ANd FWIW - I consider myself time crunched as well (?who doesn't?) The only time I can get workouts reliably in is between 4-6AM before my 3 year old kid or wife are awake. Even with this time constraint, I find those 5-6 hrs of Z2 riding much more physically and mentally sustainable over months than those killer Sufferfest workouts day in day out.


I actually did quite well with the SF workouts at first. It wasn't until after a few months when I retested my FTP and it went from 209 to 234 that the sufferfest vids began destroying me and I didn't have the will power to continue. Plus that time also coincided with nicer weather so it became doubly hard to do brutal indoor workouts vs beautiful outdoor rides. After changing my FTP I actually couldn't complete a video at the target power without stopping for a brief break, so it became much harder to make myself do these. Even had one workout, I think it was Angels, that I nearly toppled the bike over and thought I was going to pass out at the end. So I completely understand where you're coming from.
My problem with the long trainer rides is actual physical pain from sitting on the seat. I really struggle to sit there for more than an hour, and 2 hours is really my limit before the pain becomes really intolerable. I prefer the muscle agony for an hour to the misery of that seat for 2 hours. That's why I can't bring myself to do 6 hours worth of z2. I'd also never be able to get on it for more than 3 days a week. We have a 2 yr old and my wife is in Nurse practitioner school on top of working. For me it just works better to push harder for less time. I really don't mind the trainer as I'm hooked on Walking Dead(which the wife hates) so it's the best time for me to watch it, and I'm finally getting around to watching west wing(another one my wife doesn't watch), so that helps with motivation to ride. Just not sure how close of attention i'll be able to pay to those shows while doing sufferfest...ugh, the agony I know is coming

BTW, I'd still say that's an incredible bike finish, not just good!


2013-11-17 7:20 PM
in reply to: marcag


180
100252525
Arden, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville



I still would like to get an outdoor workout in on the weekend when the weather cooperates, but without a power meter, is there any way to get a rough estimate of my TSS for an outdoor ride?



Do you have a HR monitor and do you know your zones ?

This is the Training Peaks article on how to do it.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/estimating-training-...


Training peaks does it automatically for you

Right, I'm an idiot. I've been using Training Peaks and just completely forgot that it calculates that for me. Thanks for the reminder.
2013-11-17 7:21 PM
in reply to: marcag


180
100252525
Arden, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville

Originally posted by marcag



To the OP : did you get an answer to your question ?


Oh Hell yea, and then some. I'm not in front of a computer very often so thats why I've been so slow at responding. The information in this thread was fantastic, I never heard of the 300 TSS goal per week before so that's really helpful as a data point to shoot for.

I still would like to get an outdoor workout in on the weekend when the weather cooperates, but without a power meter, is there any way to get a rough estimate of my TSS for an outdoor ride?

I looked over my past workouts using the Training Road program and it doesn't get me anywhere close. For instance, the three workouts it has me do, gave me a total of just over 200 for the week and that's in about 4 hours. On the other hand, when I was doing sufferfest last winter I would get over 300 in just 3 hours. I'm really going for time efficiency right now so clearly going back to sufferfest is the way to go.

I figured that was the answer, but I suppose I was hoping that someone might've told me that following the Training Road plan would be more beneficial in building an aerobic base! Not so much luck, I suppose I'm back to killing myself with sufferfest.

Its good to know also that I need to shoot for 300. Makes sense though since that's about what I was getting this past winter and I made substantial gains over those months.




excellent !

Don't take the 300 as a hard number but a guideline. 200 is low, 270-300 is what I shoot for in the winter while doing a lot of running. I go as high as 500-600 during the sunmer but with less running. But I also do more than average.




Perfect...when I was doing sufferfest I would usually be around 100-105. so between two of those and a weekend ride I should easily hit that mark, if not a tad higher. Thanks for your advice!
2013-11-17 9:00 PM
in reply to: TriDadinAsheville


1292
1000100100252525
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs
Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville

I actually did quite well with the SF workouts at first. It wasn't until after a few months when I retested my FTP and it went from 209 to 234 that the sufferfest vids began destroying me and I didn't have the will power to continue. Plus that time also coincided with nicer weather so it became doubly hard to do brutal indoor workouts vs beautiful outdoor rides. After changing my FTP I actually couldn't complete a video at the target power without stopping for a brief break, so it became much harder to make myself do these. Even had one workout, I think it was Angels, that I nearly toppled the bike over and thought I was going to pass out at the end. So I completely understand where you're coming from.
My problem with the long trainer rides is actual physical pain from sitting on the seat. I really struggle to sit there for more than an hour, and 2 hours is really my limit before the pain becomes really intolerable. I prefer the muscle agony for an hour to the misery of that seat for 2 hours. That's why I can't bring myself to do 6 hours worth of z2. I'd also never be able to get on it for more than 3 days a week. We have a 2 yr old and my wife is in Nurse practitioner school on top of working. For me it just works better to push harder for less time. I really don't mind the trainer as I'm hooked on Walking Dead(which the wife hates) so it's the best time for me to watch it, and I'm finally getting around to watching west wing(another one my wife doesn't watch), so that helps with motivation to ride. Just not sure how close of attention i'll be able to pay to those shows while doing sufferfest...ugh, the agony I know is coming

BTW, I'd still say that's an incredible bike finish, not just good!


You need to work up gradually to those long 2-3 hr rides on the trainer. At least for me, it's a lot harder (like 2x harder) to hold that static aero position for 2 hrs than outdoors where there are episodes of sitting up climbs, or at least more movement in the cockpit. However, I know for sure that if I'm aero-ready for 3 hrs on the trainer, I'm going to have no back issues on race day.

This 'back conditioning' is a big reason I'm also sticking mostly to trainer this time around. In my last HIM, I did almost all very hilly weekend training rides (5500+ ft climbing in 50 miles) which took me out of aero for most of it. On race day, I was able to hit my target (PR) power targets without difficulty as a result, but my back really suffered in the final 45 minutes, to the point I had to get out of aero as often as possible just to rest it. I don't anticipate having that problem this time around with 3hrs on the trainer in full aero.

So for me, there indeed are two separate but important trainer improvement categories:
1) Power
2) Position (long position) - Because of this, I am committed to those long z2 trainer rides throughout this season, even if I could still get equivalent TSS in 1-1.5hrs. Obviously, if you can train full aero for most of your ride outdoors, that would also work; I just happen to be committed to the trainer this go-around.
2013-11-18 7:27 AM
in reply to: TriDadinAsheville

Master
6817
50001000500100100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Trainer Road Base Build Programs

Originally posted by TriDadinAsheville  I actually did quite well with the SF workouts at first. It wasn't until after a few months when I retested my FTP and it went from 209 to 234 that the sufferfest vids began destroying me and I didn't have the will power to continue. Plus that time also coincided with nicer weather so it became doubly hard to do brutal indoor workouts vs beautiful outdoor rides. After changing my FTP I actually couldn't complete a video at the target power without stopping for a brief break, so it became much harder to make myself do these. Even had one workout, I think it was Angels, that I nearly toppled the bike over and thought I was going to pass out at the end. So I completely understand where you're coming from. My problem with the long trainer rides is actual physical pain from sitting on the seat. I really struggle to sit there for more than an hour, and 2 hours is really my limit before the pain becomes really intolerable. I prefer the muscle agony for an hour to the misery of that seat for 2 hours. That's why I can't bring myself to do 6 hours worth of z2. I'd also never be able to get on it for more than 3 days a week. We have a 2 yr old and my wife is in Nurse practitioner school on top of working. For me it just works better to push harder for less time. I really don't mind the trainer as I'm hooked on Walking Dead(which the wife hates) so it's the best time for me to watch it, and I'm finally getting around to watching west wing(another one my wife doesn't watch), so that helps with motivation to ride. Just not sure how close of attention i'll be able to pay to those shows while doing sufferfest...ugh, the agony I know is coming BTW, I'd still say that's an incredible bike finish, not just good!

I use the vids quite regularly. It's not necessary to go all in all the time. I adjust the goals for them according to what I need. The workout I posted before was actually done to ISLAGIATT plus The Wretched. Think Marc gave some reasonable guidelines for TSS, as I tend to have more time than most and do use it.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Trainer Road Base Build Programs Rss Feed  
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Building cycling base using Turbo trainer

Started by DenisB
Views: 1106 Posts: 2

2007-09-18 9:01 AM Machiavelo

Help with running base building program

Started by boneyBP
Views: 802 Posts: 6

2006-09-19 11:19 AM boneyBP

Base building

Started by aliengin
Views: 431 Posts: 6

2004-10-04 11:14 AM ride_like_u_stole_it

Building a Running Base

Started by ChuckyFinster
Views: 236 Posts: 6

2004-09-13 8:09 PM jasmine

Base Building again

Started by robot fury
Views: 589 Posts: 7

2004-03-15 5:55 PM lincsguyus
RELATED ARTICLES
date : November 28, 2011
author : juliapurr
comments : 0
Bored out of your mind or watching a movie? Amp it up on the bike trainer.
 
date : August 11, 2011
author : FitWerx
comments : 0
Dean from Fitwerx answers a BT member question about what kind of bike should be the "next bike."
date : April 20, 2009
author : FitWerx
comments : 0
I'm considering a road frame buildup, what considerations should I take into account when swapping all of my components from my current setup to a new frame?
 
date : December 27, 2008
author : FitWerx
comments : 9
Are you a beginner triathlete? This video will compare triathlon bikes and road bikes to help you figure out what is best for you as you begin your triathlon training.
date : December 22, 2008
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
This month, the focus will be on building your aerobic base while improving or maintaining stroke technique.
 
date : October 22, 2008
author : Curt Chesney
comments : 0
What training do you do during your off season? Any advice on what to aim for? Should I focus on building a better base?
date : June 5, 2006
author : mikericci
comments : 0
How should I go about training for the marathon while also building base in the other two events? Doing this seems like it's causing me to break the 10% rule in running.
 
date : October 31, 2004
author : tmwelshy
comments : 0
To prevent a mental breakdown before you even get to the starting line, use the winter months to set goals, build your base, vary your workouts, cut back on training and throw in some variety.