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2013-11-18 6:29 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Originally posted by Left Brain

I agree completely. But WTC IS in the triathlon business, and they can sell their race to a network that does want to cover the race and the legitimate athlete stars of that race.  But instead, we get Hines Ward and some chef that walks most of the run......riveting.




Judging by race registration sell outs, and sell out time frames, it seems the WTC is doing just fine in the triathlon business. Their model is working. I have no idea why they would try to change it, and focus more on pro coverage. Clearly the athletes sitting in front of their computer clicking the refresh screen don't care which pros are going to race with them before depositing $700 as quickly as they can.

It wouldn't be a far fetched idea if the WTC completely got rid of pro racing. Why give out prize money when nobody cares who gets it...or if it doesn't matter to them before registering? I think it would be a very horrible move, and one I would never want to see happen...but I'm pretty sure WTC races would still do fine without pros. It speaks volumes when a Kona champ like Macca decides he rather chase the Olympics than continue to race WTC and another Kona title...and the WTC didn't flinch...nor should they have. Even when Macca came back, he did the bare minimum for WTC requirements to get back to Kona, and instead focused on supporting Challenge races who were willing to pay him sponsorship money.

Long course racing is boring. If a TV network really wanted to cover triathlon racing and the legitimate athletes in the sport, why cover WTC races? The more exciting racing, and the brightest stars are all in ITU. They do get coverage, it's growing, but has not yet hit mainstream network TV with the exception of the Olympics. AFAIK, age group draft legal races aren't selling out a year in advance...nor are the non draft legal AG races that are held in conjunction with pro ITU races. The WTC is playing a different game...thus they take a different approach.



2013-11-18 6:47 PM
in reply to: erinrockrun

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
I'm actually fine with the human interest "fluff" most of the time. I think the inspiring thing is that it's not just elite triathletes competing in Ironman, it's average Joes that have very personal and passionate reasons to be doing this. What I have a real problem with is the celebrity nonsense. Average people are putting forth unbelievable amounts of effort to achieve a goal of racing at Kona or finishing any Ironman for that matter. Many even sacrifice the health of their marriages to achieve such a goal, which is why I got so pissed off watching the Kona coverage this year that I turned it off after Hines was basically saying how he wasn't even taking it seriously and didn't even really care. It's a slap in the face to all the people who actually put forth the effort. It just seems lopsided that these celebs get so much attention where the real heroes are the ones that care so much about it
2013-11-18 6:55 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child.  Not someone that places well in an ironman to grab a spot or rolldown.  But to each his own

2013-11-18 7:03 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Originally posted by ChrisM

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child.  Not someone that places well in an ironman to grab a spot or rolldown.  But to each his own




Well you make a very good point, Chris. I like the post someone made earlier about how sad it is that people think an Ironman is the pinnacle experience of their lives. I think things like the NBC broadcast kinda trick them into thinking that. I guess what I meant by hero in this context was the more interesting stories that they could have covered, rather than a chef that is famous because he acts like an a$$hole on tv
2013-11-18 7:12 PM
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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by Jason N
Originally posted by Left Brain

I agree completely. But WTC IS in the triathlon business, and they can sell their race to a network that does want to cover the race and the legitimate athlete stars of that race.  But instead, we get Hines Ward and some chef that walks most of the run......riveting.

Judging by race registration sell outs, and sell out time frames, it seems the WTC is doing just fine in the triathlon business. Their model is working. I have no idea why they would try to change it, and focus more on pro coverage. Clearly the athletes sitting in front of their computer clicking the refresh screen don't care which pros are going to race with them before depositing $700 as quickly as they can. It wouldn't be a far fetched idea if the WTC completely got rid of pro racing. Why give out prize money when nobody cares who gets it...or if it doesn't matter to them before registering? I think it would be a very horrible move, and one I would never want to see happen...but I'm pretty sure WTC races would still do fine without pros. It speaks volumes when a Kona champ like Macca decides he rather chase the Olympics than continue to race WTC and another Kona title...and the WTC didn't flinch...nor should they have. Even when Macca came back, he did the bare minimum for WTC requirements to get back to Kona, and instead focused on supporting Challenge races who were willing to pay him sponsorship money. Long course racing is boring. If a TV network really wanted to cover triathlon racing and the legitimate athletes in the sport, why cover WTC races? The more exciting racing, and the brightest stars are all in ITU. They do get coverage, it's growing, but has not yet hit mainstream network TV with the exception of the Olympics. AFAIK, age group draft legal races aren't selling out a year in advance...nor are the non draft legal AG races that are held in conjunction with pro ITU races. The WTC is playing a different game...thus they take a different approach.

Yeah, I have no doubt that most "triathletes" don't care at all about pro triathletes.  You may have a point......it's probably better that WTC stay out of the Pro divisions completely and be the home for the weekend warriors.  Still, I think WTC is missing the boat letting their races be portrayed like novelty acts....and they still should be concerned about the overall health of triathlon.....but probably not as they mirror the attitude of many of their participants who are pretty much only concerned about their own goals.....and don't care enough about the sport itself to even know the difference between HInes Ward and the true stars of the game.

As far as draft legal races selling out.....the male Youth and Jr. Elite races sell out very fast and always have waiting lists....I don't know about AG draft legalraces.....there aren't many.  By their nature, because of the amount of training and planning involved, long course races are signed up for well in advance.....saying they sell out a year in advance as a sign of success doesn't really mean anything......and besides, most don't.



Edited by Left Brain 2013-11-18 7:17 PM
2013-11-18 7:17 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by trijamie
Originally posted by ChrisM

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child.  Not someone that places well in an ironman to grab a spot or rolldown.  But to each his own

Well you make a very good point, Chris. I like the post someone made earlier about how sad it is that people think an Ironman is the pinnacle experience of their lives. I think things like the NBC broadcast kinda trick them into thinking that. I guess what I meant by hero in this context was the more interesting stories that they could have covered, rather than a chef that is famous because he acts like an a$$hole on tv

Yeah, I can't argue with that.  But interesting is a relative term.  Do they pick the guy that won his slot in th M65-69 race in Brazil?  Or 35-39 women in lanzarote?  At the end, the NBC broadcast is pure marketing.  If you want race coverage, you gotta watch live in October.



2013-11-18 9:12 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
I hung out with the film crew at IM Cairns last year - they took soooo much footage a lot of a friend of mine as he was representing an anti bullying charity etc.

Then after filming wrapped up they cut all of his footage - they just can't keep it all - must be infuriating for the cameraman and the presenter too, hours of work for nothing.

It's a shame they don't sell an uncut version.

Next year isn't going to be any better if the Beckhams show up !

2013-11-18 9:26 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by trijamie
Originally posted by ChrisM

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child.  Not someone that places well in an ironman to grab a spot or rolldown.  But to each his own

Well you make a very good point, Chris. I like the post someone made earlier about how sad it is that people think an Ironman is the pinnacle experience of their lives. I think things like the NBC broadcast kinda trick them into thinking that. I guess what I meant by hero in this context was the more interesting stories that they could have covered, rather than a chef that is famous because he acts like an a$$hole on tv

Yeah, I can't argue with that.  But interesting is a relative term.  Do they pick the guy that won his slot in th M65-69 race in Brazil?  Or 35-39 women in lanzarote?  At the end, the NBC broadcast is pure marketing.  If you want race coverage, you gotta watch live in October.

This. Though they certainly could do a better job with it too. 

I was so hopeful when I saw the split screen, but, alas the concept of focusing on the men's race and women's race simultaneously seemed to be just too much.

I've never watched the NBC broadcast, but I may just have to check it out now.

2013-11-18 10:38 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
I didn't watch 2013 yet but the first coverage I saw recently, when I youtube searched, ended up being one of the Biggest Loser guys doing it. This really pissed me off. He was in no shape at all to be competing with people who have busted their for years. Sort of put a foul taste in my mouth since it is one of my ultimate goals to qualify for Kona sometime in my life. I can understand them wanting to show him doing an IM but does it really need to be at the world championships? Would be like getting into the Olympics for winning a Mountain Dew contest. Yippie...

Anyway sort of back on topic. I saw the 2012 one on youtube and mostly enjoyed it. I was surprised on how big of a dicks the pros were during the race. One guy at a bike support guy because it took him 4.5 minutes to get to him. How about you learn to change a flat tire if you're a "pro" triathlete.... I thought it was interesting but it was missing something to make it stand out I know it's a boring sport to watch but there has to be more going on. I plan to watch the 2013 video on youtube again (ugg...horrible quality) as I dropped cable months ago and don't have a DVR. Even if it sucks, like people say, I need something to watch during dinner so I still plan to watch it.
2013-11-18 11:14 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by RollTideTri
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Jason N
Originally posted by Left Brain Most people can't sit through the garbage NBC throws out for IM World Championship.....ask around.
I didn't ask, but others have commented saying the exact opposite to your opinion. As I said before, it's not meant for everyone. I fully understand with your kids participating at the pointy end of races, you have much more interest in seeing triathlon grow with more focus on competition. Some people couldn't care less. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=4858318;sb=post_latest_... ETA: for other sports like basketball and football. Heck yes...focus all on the pros. I don't want to watch human interest stories during coverage of the NBA finals or the Super Bowl. Pro basketball and pro football are billion dollar industries because of the pros. Triathlon is not a growing industry because of the pros. If it were, they would pay them more than a nickel.

But it can be, and in my mind that is how you grow the sport.  It's the reason alot more people would have watched Armstrong....and lacking him, WTC will take some soccer player with a bunch of tatoos who is still trying to learn how to swim.  Excellent......more circus acts for the carnival when you have real athletes with interesting stories who could become names that people recognize and want to watch for their athletic feats.....you know, kinda like any real sport.

NBC isn't in the Triathlon business. They're in the TV business. If the circus sells, they sell the circus. It's not their job to grow it into a "real sport", it's their job to get the highest ratings they can. They know triathlon is never going to be the NFL or NBA or hockey or even soccer when it comes to a TV spectator sport. They have ZERO incentive to try and drum up interest in the pros or the hard core competition aspect of it, to grow the sport. If it grew by 5 fold it would still be a tiny blip in their world. People complain about all the fluff during the Olympics too, but NBC learned decades ago the ratings go up when it's presented that way. To change their model would be flushing money down the toilet.

I agree completely. But WTC IS in the triathlon business, and they can sell their race to a network that does want to cover the race and the legitimate athlete stars of that race.  But instead, we get Hines Ward and some chef that walks most of the run......riveting.




Well if the WTC has multiple networks wanting to televise the event, and one of them is willing to cover the pros like that, and the financials are comparable for both deals, they should definitely consider it. I doubt that't the case, though.
2013-11-19 9:23 AM
in reply to: RollTideTri

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
I have to say that I rather enjoyed the mix of pro and AG coverage on this year's broadcast. (This year's version was better than when NBC got a place for their own Biggest Loser guy a couple of years ago.)

It's difficult for NBC/WTC to create a broadcast that has the right balance of pro coverage and AG 'inspirational' stories. We, as triathletes already, are invested in the sport and some of us might want to see more pro coverage as a result. That makes sense, but I'm not sure the NBC broadcast is aimed at us. IMHO, I think the broadcast is intended to 'broaden the base' and increase awareness of the WTC brand and triathlons in general among the general public. How many folks have started down the path of becoming triathletes as a result of that broadcast in past years? I would imagine a fairly high number (it worked for me!) and this is probably the best way for WTC to increase the number of potential triathletes/customers. Triathlon is a niche sport, and the NBC broadcast is a fantastic advertisement for triathlons. And for the new triathlete/person sitting on their couch, they can probably relate to the inspirational AG athletes more than the pros, so hence WTC/NBC must highlight a fair number of AG athletes.

I know it's easy (and seemingly quite popular) to take shots at WTC, but I think this year's broadcast was really good and served its purpose. WTC is the only one out there who does this, and IMHO, I think most of the criticism of the broadcast is unwarranted. If they didn't have the annual broadcast, where would triathlon as a sport be today without them? And for all those who prefer Rev3 or Challenge races compared to WTC events, where's their broad marketing efforts to bring folks into the sport? Everyone benefits from these broadcasts.

Just my two cents...



2013-11-19 9:32 AM
in reply to: LarchmontTri

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Do you mean kinda like these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJzUuOzijwU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmW-zUur7rk

They are also not as big as Kona and do not have the history of Kona. Chicago triathlon used to be shown on tv but they have since stopped that. My first experience with triathlon was watching escape from Alcatraz on TV as a kid. They had someone my age being the youngest finisher for it. I started reading about it and wanted to be the youngest person to finish the Ironman.
2013-11-19 1:24 PM
in reply to: LarchmontTri

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Originally posted by LarchmontTri

It's difficult for NBC/WTC to create a broadcast that has the right balance of pro coverage and AG 'inspirational' stories. We, as triathletes already, are invested in the sport and some of us might want to see more pro coverage as a result. That makes sense, but I'm not sure the NBC broadcast is aimed at us. IMHO, I think the broadcast is intended to 'broaden the base' and increase awareness of the WTC brand and triathlons in general among the general public.



Maybe it isn't aimed at us entirely, but look at the advertising during the broadcast: GoPro cameras, the heads-up display glasses, etc. The advertisers are definitely gunning for us during that show...
2013-11-19 3:50 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Originally posted by ChrisM

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child. 




This is so American I think I might go buy a cheeseburger and coke
2013-11-20 1:10 PM
in reply to: Dnn

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

As a disclaimer, my previous posts have been about the trend of IM Kona Coverage and hadn't seen this years.

I watched it officially last night and unfortunately, didn't improve my opinion.

  • It had it's moments I guess, just like any year.  Did motivate me enough to think about doing another one.
  • I fast forwarded through the entire Sandyhook back story.
  • Not enough coverage of the pros again.
  • My wife came in half way and hear the narration and the intense music and was like "wow, so dramatic" without knowing what I was watching.  I was thinking EXACTLY.  So much post production.  All the music and intense narration is great for the old NFL films, but not for an actual NFL game/sporting event.
  • I don't know their motivation, but the mother/father combo that wanted to finish together?  How does he hold her back?  He crashed a couple years ago and they pulled out.  This year he's cramping and they are walking their bikes..  As a father or husband or just a partner, I would INSIST the other person proceed without me.  I would never be the one to keep someone from finishing.  I guess it ended up ok.  They ended up finishing.
  • The wife DID see the lady with the one leg finishing and said "that sucks" when I told her it didn't officially count.  But she did say "well, she DID finish it".  I agree, to me, it's doing an Ironman, even if the books say it's not official.  You did the 140.6, just 51 seconds too long...  Maybe I'm a softy that way.
  • The dolphin shot was pretty cool.
  • My wife was surprised/impressed with how hard an IM seems to be as portrayed by the commentary.  Maybe I'm biased, but I was like "meh, they are not THAT hard.  They make it seem like some almost impossible feat, but it's not:.  If 2000-3000 people sign up for every IM, and there is typically a 80-90% finish rate?  Now, if they cut the time down to 12 hours and you had less than half that can do it, then it starts getting harder.
  • They showed Gordon Ramsey walking and talked about how he was suffering.  BUT, he still finished at about 14 hours.  Not that bad, actually.  I had to tell the wife that just about everyone walks some of it unless they are the elite racers.  Any time over 10 hours and you are probably walking some of the course.
  • Anyone know off hand how Hines Ward finished time wise?

 

2013-11-20 1:57 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Hines finished around 13:08.  Damn, beat me.



2013-11-20 3:20 PM
in reply to: Dnn

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by Dnn
Originally posted by ChrisM

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child. 

This is so American I think I might go buy a cheeseburger and coke

Don't forget the fries

2013-11-20 3:23 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

It was cool to see all the latest bikes people are riding.  I haven't really looked hard at new rides in a couple years being more than happy with my P3.  But there are some seriously cool/fast looking machines out there.  I noticed a trend of how low the seat stays tie into the seat post and just how flat and wide tube sections are.

2013-11-20 3:30 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Originally posted by trijamie

Originally posted by ChrisM

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child.  Not someone that places well in an ironman to grab a spot or rolldown.  But to each his own




Well you make a very good point, Chris. I like the post someone made earlier about how sad it is that people think an Ironman is the pinnacle experience of their lives. I think things like the NBC broadcast kinda trick them into thinking that. I guess what I meant by hero in this context was the more interesting stories that they could have covered, rather than a chef that is famous because he acts like an a$$hole on tv


You might want to do some research of Ramsey, besides the fact that he has other shows where he's far from the ahole you call him and is famous in some circles for things most likely could never achieve.

Sports needs celebrities, be they because they were good or because they were famous. The general public could care less about the average guy doing Ironman. They want to live vicariously through the personalities they know.
2013-11-20 3:33 PM
in reply to: FranzZemen

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by FranzZemen
Originally posted by trijamie
Originally posted by ChrisM

To me, a hero is a dude that goes into a burning building and saves a child.  Not someone that places well in an ironman to grab a spot or rolldown.  But to each his own

Well you make a very good point, Chris. I like the post someone made earlier about how sad it is that people think an Ironman is the pinnacle experience of their lives. I think things like the NBC broadcast kinda trick them into thinking that. I guess what I meant by hero in this context was the more interesting stories that they could have covered, rather than a chef that is famous because he acts like an a$$hole on tv
You might want to do some research of Ramsey, besides the fact that he has other shows where he's far from the ahole you call him and is famous in some circles for things most likely could never achieve. Sports needs celebrities, be they because they were good or because they were famous. The general public could care less about the average guy doing Ironman. They want to live vicariously through the personalities they know.

No, I think sports need great athletes....not celebrities who aren't athletes.  I'd be happy to watch him smoke some ribs.....I wouldn't walk across the street to see him schlep home an IM run.

2013-11-20 3:34 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by Kido

  • I don't know their motivation, but the mother/father combo that wanted to finish together?  How does he hold her back?  He crashed a couple years ago and they pulled out.  This year he's cramping and they are walking their bikes..  As a father or husband or just a partner, I would INSIST the other person proceed without me.  I would never be the one to keep someone from finishing.  I guess it ended up ok.  They ended up finishing.

Sadly, they didn't finish.  I believe they say it ended at mile 11

  • The dolphin shot was pretty cool.

Beyond cool!

  • Anyone know off hand how Hines Ward finished time wise?

Low 13's I think?

 



2013-11-20 4:12 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

  • I don't know their motivation, but the mother/father combo that wanted to finish together?  How does he hold her back?  He crashed a couple years ago and they pulled out.  This year he's cramping and they are walking their bikes..  As a father or husband or just a partner, I would INSIST the other person proceed without me.  I would never be the one to keep someone from finishing.  I guess it ended up ok.  They ended up finishing.

I'm friends with Liz, the daughter of the father/daughter team.  it's actually a pretty interesting story (and BTW< they both qualified, and are not human interest entries) They have both qualified and raced Kona previously and I am pretty sure finished.  A couple years back, he crashed and from what I recall she said it was her fault.  Dude went on to finish the bike with a fractured hip, although pulled in T2. 

In 09 he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and during his sickness Liz promised she'd race Kona one day with him.  Story is here.  http://www.ironman.com/triathlon-news/articles/2012/11/ironmanlife-hunter-temple.aspx#axzz2lCzYkLJH

 

2013-11-20 5:29 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...
Originally posted by Kido

It was cool to see all the latest bikes people are riding.  I haven't really looked hard at new rides in a couple years being more than happy with my P3.  But there are some seriously cool/fast looking machines out there.  I noticed a trend of how low the seat stays tie into the seat post and just how flat and wide tube sections are.




You really have to be there to fully grasp how much money is in transition on race day.
2013-11-20 6:37 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by Jason N
Originally posted by Kido

It was cool to see all the latest bikes people are riding.  I haven't really looked hard at new rides in a couple years being more than happy with my P3.  But there are some seriously cool/fast looking machines out there.  I noticed a trend of how low the seat stays tie into the seat post and just how flat and wide tube sections are.

You really have to be there to fully grasp how much money is in transition on race day.

Well, I always estimated about 10mil in bikes (and wheels) in Transition at IMAZ and IMSG.  I'm sure Kona is even at a different level.  Even the 77yr old lady was sporting Shimano DI shifters.

2013-11-20 6:40 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: For those of us who missed the NBC Ironman Kona coverage today...

Originally posted by ChrisM

  • I don't know their motivation, but the mother/father combo that wanted to finish together?  How does he hold her back?  He crashed a couple years ago and they pulled out.  This year he's cramping and they are walking their bikes..  As a father or husband or just a partner, I would INSIST the other person proceed without me.  I would never be the one to keep someone from finishing.  I guess it ended up ok.  They ended up finishing.

I'm friends with Liz, the daughter of the father/daughter team.  it's actually a pretty interesting story (and BTW< they both qualified, and are not human interest entries) They have both qualified and raced Kona previously and I am pretty sure finished.  A couple years back, he crashed and from what I recall she said it was her fault.  Dude went on to finish the bike with a fractured hip, although pulled in T2. 

In 09 he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and during his sickness Liz promised she'd race Kona one day with him.  Story is here.  http://www.ironman.com/triathlon-news/articles/2012/11/ironmanlife-hunter-temple.aspx#axzz2lCzYkLJH

 

I'm sure there was more to it.  I figured they both notched their belt at IM's or Kona before, so finishing together was the more important aspect than finishing.  I would stil feel bad about holding back anyone from finishing an IM.

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We interview several age-groupers pre-race on their Ironman Kona race thoughts.
date : September 26, 2009
author : Coach AJ
comments : 2
New products from Prologo, Lake, Avia, Orbea, Ceepo, Jamis, Zipp, Profile, Scott and Specialized.
 
date : October 17, 2004
author : BrianPBN
comments : 0
Well the day is finally here. I don't believe a single workout has gone by in these past 9 years where the idea of being at the start line of the Ironman Hawaii didn't creep into my head.
date : October 10, 2004
author : BrianPBN
comments : 0
So far the taper is feeling good and I'm getting that itchy feeling to race. I know this will grow even stronger when I get to the island and see my friends and PBN Team members.  
 
date : October 3, 2004
author : BrianPBN
comments : 0
Definitely glad this weekend is out of the way as 145 miles of cycling and 27 miles of running in two days is a fair amount.