General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill? Rss Feed  
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2013-11-18 10:32 AM

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Subject: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
I swim a masters program 3x per week and am running 4x. Cycling is on the back burner as I focus on a running block this winter to improve and prepare for a HM.

I drink a recovery shake (coconut water, frozen berries, a 1/4 banana and vanilla protein powder) after each workout. I am wondering if I even need it after swims. I tend to think of a protein recovery shake as being important to rebuild muscles and refuel glycogen after really working muscles ...as in a run. Swims do not feel like that kind of workout at all, I don't feel it in my muscles. I think of my post swim shake as refueling for my next work out, which is a run...but I swim at fairly easy pace for the most part. Not sure that I am really burning much glycogen or if my muscles need the protein.

Should I continue to drink a recovery smoothie after a 1 hour swim (2600-3200 meters average) or is it over kill?
Any advice would be welcomed.


2013-11-18 10:38 AM
in reply to: dace

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?

It's likely not necessary after any of your workouts (at least the vast majority of them).

Also, you should swim harder much more often.

2013-11-18 11:07 AM
in reply to: #4900494

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
What type of work out would warrant a protein recovery meal/drink?
2013-11-18 11:11 AM
in reply to: dace

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Real food first
2013-11-18 11:30 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Originally posted by dace

What type of work out would warrant a protein recovery meal/drink?


Long runs, long rides, and high intensity runs. I don't do a recovery drink after swims or other bikes/runs. In off season I don't really do them at all. I am on my feet all day long and do not have a sedentary job so a nutritious shake really helps me get the calories in when I need them.

**edited to add that your smoothie is real food with the coconut milk, berries, banana, and protein powder. You could add more to it if you want to make it your breakfast - oats, T almond butter, handful of greens like kale or spinach, chia seeds, etc. Lots of possibilities.

Edited by jarvy01 2013-11-18 11:38 AM
2013-11-18 12:13 PM
in reply to: jarvy01

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
I don't remember the exact words or even the precise details about nutrition but I read in Friel's Triathlon Training Bible that most triathletes don't get enough protein and that post workout (even the shorter, less intense ones) you should have some sort of recovery food. I'll re-check the book but that's kind of what I remember. Anybody read his book that can confirm my line of thinknig?


2013-11-18 1:08 PM
in reply to: reecealan

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?

A consideration is whether or not you are trying to loose fat% or build muscle etc....

2013-11-18 1:26 PM
in reply to: LPJmom


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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
My situation may be different than the majority as I'm actively trying to cut fat. I see a nutritionist every 6 weeks and weight in on an Inbody 5200 scale. Think high end scale that tracks fat, lean mass, water ratio, etc... I just started running July 1st with a couch to 5K program plus 2 days a week weight training and 1 day a week bike ride. I was not doing any specific post workout nutrition and at the 6 week check up I had lost 4 pounds of muscle and less than a pound of fat. Based on those results I immediately added a post work out protein drink, Max Muscle IsoX Whey Protein. I mix the vanilla in lemonade crystal light and consume ASAP after the workout. My last followup I had gained back just over 1 pound of muscle and lost almost 6 pounds of fat. So I'm a believer.

Just for reference on my daily nutrition plan:
130 Grams of Protein + 30 grams post workout
50 to 75 Net Carbs
1500 calories + 150 calories per 30 minutes of workout

Thanks,
Ron
2013-11-18 1:54 PM
in reply to: WaterRat

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
How does the scale make that determination? I wasn't aware this was possible.
2013-11-18 2:33 PM
in reply to: JZig


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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
It does it off electrical resistance as fat, muscle and bone all conduct at different rates. They can be highly inaccurate depending on your level of hydration, last time you worked out and other variables. I work very hard to try and have the same level of hydration and not to work out 12 to 24 hours before my session to try and keep the baseline similar and give me the most accurate results. It's pretty cool though because it has the metal foot plates as well as hand wands that you grip and it will segment out your lean mass by each arm/leg as well as trunk.

Thanks,
Ron
2013-11-18 3:08 PM
in reply to: dace

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
I try to get some sort of recovery food/smoothie after every workout. I try to start taking it in within 15 min of finishing. The recovery food can take the form of some nuts, a banana, and water after a normal run; a Cliff Bar or similar after a swim (also because I'm starving after swimming); a 40 oz. super smoothie after a long run, ride, or brick; or juice and a bean spread or hummus on a whole wheat tortilla. I do this because i usually am super hungry after working out and I sometimes have to wait a bit (an hour or so) before I can get a good meal in me. I started doing this about a year ago and I have noticed that my recovery times have gotten shorter.

That's what I do...it works for me.

As for what you do, if I was able to, I'd probably do the same thing.


2013-11-18 3:40 PM
in reply to: The Chupacabra

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?

Originally posted by The Chupacabra

I started doing this about a year ago and I have noticed that my recovery times have gotten shorter. That's what I do...it works for me.

Not to tell you that your nutrition plan isn't helping create shorter recovery times or to change anything you are doing at all, but another possibility for the shorter recovery times is the year of training.  Just pointing out that it is nearly impossible for an individual to isolate the impact that a specific item contributes to their performance.  But, certainly, if you are happy with the overall results of your program (including the recovery snacks), then stick with it.  Personally, I often get no recovery food (within 1 hr.) after many workouts (many swims, some runs and bikes).  Seems to work for me. 

2013-11-18 3:46 PM
in reply to: #4900494

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Interesting and varied responses, thank you.

I will keep drinking my recovery smoothie, mainly no one has a solid reason that I shouldn't but I have several reasons that I should....

- I am slender, trying to maintain my weight but shift my body composition by shaving off some body fat. I have come down from 27 % to 24% (45 yr old female).

- Since adopting the recovery meal/smoothie (used to be solid food like some protein and half sweet potato, but the smoothie is just so easy and palatable...and I can drink it in the shower) I have continued to lose body fat.

- I do not consume grains as my belly does not like them, so the carby boost after a work out is appreciated by my body.

- I often have trouble consuming enough calories and the smoothie is a nice easy boost to my daily total.

- I consume only real food. The protein powder in my smoothie is literally the only canned/boxed/packaged food item that I eat. I even make my own broth for soups. It is nice to get something quick in my body before I make the time to make lunch.

Before my workouts I eat something with protein and fat...hard boiled or scrambled and sausage/bacon/leftover meat from dinner. After my workout I shoot for a carb boost with protein. The next meal is always lean protein and veggies, usually salad with meat and a small amount of avocado and dressed with extra virgin olive oil and squeeze of lime.

For those trying to lose body fat...ease up on the carbs before your workout ( unless it will be over 90 mins) and eat protein and fat instead. Your body will burn fat (body fat) if you don't have a lot of glucose floating around in your blood stream.

Again, thanks for the interesting feedback.
2013-11-18 3:50 PM
in reply to: WaterRat

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?

Originally posted by WaterRat protein drink, Max Muscle IsoX Whey Protein. I mix the vanilla in lemonade crystal light and consume ASAP after the workout.

Am I the only one that read that and thinks it sounds really gross? Vanilla protein powder and lemon crystal light?

2013-11-18 3:55 PM
in reply to: #4900829

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Johnnykay....in defense of Chupacabra...there is research that supports the fact that within 30 minutes after a workout your muscles are primed to receive both protein and glucose at a faster rate, speeding up recovery and preparing the muscles for the next work out.

I do agree with the fact that his recovery time may be associated with the length of time he has been working out, but I do not think nutrition should be discounted. One would assume that his workouts are increasing in intensity over what they were when he started, so I believe nutrition helps people like him continue to see gains.

I began running in April of this year...couch to tri. Not once have I been sore. Even after two tri's one week apart...not a lick of soreness. I attribute that in part to good nutrition.
2013-11-18 4:00 PM
in reply to: #4900843

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Originally posted by WaterRat protein drink, Max Muscle IsoX Whey Protein. I mix the vanilla in lemonade crystal light and consume ASAP after the workout.

Am I the only one that read that and thinks it sounds really gross? Vanilla protein powder and lemon crystal light?

Yes, Water Rat, that artificial sweetener is poison. Stop putting that into your body. At least mix it with water and a squeeze of fresh lemon. Or find something else, I see that you are low carb but you do need to replenish glycogen, so consider using milk or coconut water...something that is real food but contributes some modest carbs. This will help your muscle recovery. Trim carbs elsewhere if needed in your day.


2013-11-18 4:03 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

Originally posted by The Chupacabra

I started doing this about a year ago and I have noticed that my recovery times have gotten shorter. That's what I do...it works for me.

Not to tell you that your nutrition plan isn't helping create shorter recovery times or to change anything you are doing at all, but another possibility for the shorter recovery times is the year of training.  Just pointing out that it is nearly impossible for an individual to isolate the impact that a specific item contributes to their performance.  But, certainly, if you are happy with the overall results of your program (including the recovery snacks), then stick with it.  Personally, I often get no recovery food (within 1 hr.) after many workouts (many swims, some runs and bikes).  Seems to work for me. 





You're right. It probably is the year of training. Too many variable over a year to narrow it down to one thing.

I also know that if I don't get something in me shortly after, I'm out of energy until I do. That could be a separate issue though...I'm just a hungry person.
2013-11-18 4:48 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

It's likely not necessary after any of your workouts (at least the vast majority of them).

Also, you should swim harder much more often.




I'm with Johnny - mostly marketing, very little science. Hard, intense, long workouts? Useful but often you're going to eat something anyway because it's meal-time. Shorter workouts? You're just ingesting calories.
2013-11-18 5:03 PM
in reply to: MonkeyClaw

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?

Originally posted by MonkeyClaw
Originally posted by JohnnyKay

It's likely not necessary after any of your workouts (at least the vast majority of them).

Also, you should swim harder much more often.

I'm with Johnny - mostly marketing, very little science. Hard, intense, long workouts? Useful but often you're going to eat something anyway because it's meal-time. Shorter workouts? You're just ingesting calories.

I agree as well.  In general, balanced and well planned eating habits during standard training days is more than enough to get everything your body needs.  For ME, trying to work in a recovery drink after a simple 30 minute swim or 60 minute Z2 run is just adding calories that I would get anyways from a solid meal plan.

I simply work out then have breakfast/lunch/dinner since I don't like to workout on a full stomach.

2013-11-19 7:42 AM
in reply to: dace

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?

Originally posted by dace Johnnykay....in defense of Chupacabra...there is research that supports the fact that within 30 minutes after a workout your muscles are primed to receive both protein and glucose at a faster rate, speeding up recovery and preparing the muscles for the next work out.

This is important if you are doing multiple hard workouts in a single day.  Not doing a single daily session.

 

2013-11-19 9:45 AM
in reply to: #4900851

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
Ok, thanks for all the feedback! It has been interesting and good food for thought :-)


2013-11-19 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?
I drink a generic260cal MRP from GNC with 40 grams of protein in it right after all of my workouts. I think I'm paying like $1.50 or something for them a piece. Less for the recovery effect and more to bump up my daily protein intake while I'm trying to cut weight and training for a full marathon. I'm on a 1600 net cal/day right now.

I know many people don't recommend going into a cal deficit during endurance training but if you take in quality food/cals it's not bad. It's actually been very successful. In 2 months I've gone from 176lbs at 16.6%bf to 166 at 10.2%bf. That's a loss of ~12lbs of fat and ~4lbs of muscle gained. I've got a 6pack now. Lol. Once I hit 162 at 10% then I will go into maintenance mode (should be by Thanksgiving I believe).

Point is that taking the MRP after each workout helps reduce muscle soreness for me, keeps me from feeling starved between lunch and dinner, and has resulted in gaining muscle during my training.

Edited by aliddle9876 2013-11-19 11:02 AM
2013-11-19 11:33 AM
in reply to: aliddle9876

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Subject: RE: Recovery meal/shakes.... Over kill?

Originally posted by aliddle9876 Point is that taking the MRP after each workout helps reduce muscle soreness for me, keeps me from feeling starved between lunch and dinner, and has resulted in gaining muscle during my training.

And my point is that it is unnecssary to take the MRP after each workout from a recovery perspective (as long as you get adequate fuel throughout your day, of course).  And the same result can be accomplished by eating real foods which, generally, has other helpful benefits too.  But if it's the ony way you will get the protein you want, then keep at it.

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