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Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? (Page 2)
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 2013-11-20 3:51 PM in reply to: mike761 |
Not a Coach  11473     Media, PA |  Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't?Originally posted by mike761 Group lessons, multiple lessons a day in a Philly suburb. Filled all classes every session, even had people coming over from NJ. Never had one that couldn't learn to swim. That does not include some of the summer stuff I did. Once my kids are out of the house, I might start teaching again there seems to be a lack of good instructors'. That's the important point (and a good one). Sorry to give you grief about the math. |
| 2013-11-20 3:52 PM in reply to: 0 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? |
| 2013-11-20 4:18 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 1004 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Have you tried using front snorkel and zoomer fins? My swimming progress is PAINFULLY slow but the snorkel and fins make me comfortable enough in the water so that I can focus on my technique and actually half enjoy swimming. |
| 2013-11-20 5:13 PM in reply to: 0 |
Member 622 Franklin, TN | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by csikes To start off I'm probably not asking this to the best audience but here it goes. Some background info first. I've tried to swim in the past and have never gotten very far. I grew up swimming as a child. Tried to start swimming again for tris and usually give up after a few months of struggling. I had some lessons but I wasn't in an area where I could get specific analysis really of what I was doing wrong. I'm now in a new area where I could get a good analysis of my stroke and would like to move to doing more triathlons over duathlons. I see many, many posts about people who hated/sucked at swimming and now love it or can at least comfortably complete the distances needed to complete tris. Is there anyone out there who has just never had it click? I have taught hundreds of swimmers (not thousands as another poster said), all using the TI method of learning. RARELY do I have a swimmer who gives up...almost everyone improves to varying degrees. I've used TI principals everyone from phobic swimmers who can't put their face in to NCAA All Americans and professional triathletes. The principals of good swimming remain the same no matter your level and what you probabaly need is a proper learning sequence. Not just be told what to do , or KNOW what good swimming is, but have a step by step progression that leads you painlessly from flailing to flying. I am terribly biased, but see my sig line. We are actually having a webinar/hangout tomorrow night live to introduce this new learning format for TI materials to the world http://totalimmersionacademy.com/ Mods, if this is commercially biased, feel free to delete, seemed appropriate in response? Suzanne...funny you mentioned the webinar. I just got an email from Bobby McGee (running guru) with a nice write up about you, Terry and the webinar. To the OP... I don't think you're going to find many people in this forum that say they can't do something unless there's a injury or other physical problem. Most of the fish on here probably forgot how hard it was when they started...I don't. Last year about this time, I took up swimming so I could compete in some triathlons this year. My first experience had me gasping for air after 75 yards. I took some lessons, got the TI dvd, Shelia's book and most importantly, persevered. Last night I did 40x100 (boring, I know)... the point is, it doesn't get easier..you just go faster and/or longer...we wouldn't participate in this sport if we didn't like to suffer a bit. Suzanne or some of the other coaches on here could probably give you some feedback to help if you post a swim video. Btw, you run faster than me.  Joel Edited by JoelO 2013-11-20 5:13 PM |
| 2013-11-20 8:33 PM in reply to: csikes |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? That is the problem there. Trying to swim straight. No shame in doing 20,30,40,50, 60 x 25 for a a whole session. Doing lots of 25s is probably what you need to improve .... |
| 2013-11-20 8:36 PM in reply to: b2run |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by b2run Have you tried using front snorkel and zoomer fins? My swimming progress is PAINFULLY slow but the snorkel and fins make me comfortable enough in the water so that I can focus on my technique and actually half enjoy swimming. The op needs skillz not crutches. |
| 2013-11-20 9:23 PM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Member 1004 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by simpsonbo Originally posted by b2run Have you tried using front snorkel and zoomer fins? My swimming progress is PAINFULLY slow but the snorkel and fins make me comfortable enough in the water so that I can focus on my technique and actually half enjoy swimming. The op needs skillz not crutches. Crutches are great for those who can't walk. If it gets her to the point where she feels comfortable with technique and staying in the pool, then why not? |
| 2013-11-20 9:38 PM in reply to: csikes |
Extreme Veteran 1704 Penticton, BC | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? This coming January I will have been swimming 3X/week for two years. I started as a complete beginner (except I've always been comfortable in water - just not a swimmer). I've been swimming with a group and coach the whole time and never miss a one hour session. When I started swimming I could just barely manage 50m and then hung on the wall for 2 minutes gasping for air. From January to mid June I made small improvements but never got that "clicking in" I was hoping for. Then in one session there was 4 of us in a lane and I was 2nd in line with the lady ahead of me swimming just a bit slower than I usually swam at that time. I considered passing her but decided just to stay where I was and the next thing I knew I had gone 750m without stopping. After that my swimming just took off. I'm not especially fast but at times I have swum sub 2:00/100yds for 1600yds. I still have some bad swim days (today!) but overall I love it. Just keep swimming. You don't have to love it or be fast. Find some convenient times, a pool you like and a group to swim with. Be persistent. Good Luck. |
| 2013-11-20 9:42 PM in reply to: b2run |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Read my other post. |
| 2013-11-20 9:51 PM in reply to: b2run |
Regular 253 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? What really helped me break through was taking my wife along to the pool when it wasn't busy. Really. She swims, very, very slowly, but she doesn't stop and can swim 1000y without a problem. I realized I had two swim speeds, stop and sprint. And, sprint equalled exploding lungs after 50 yards for me. Once I learned from her that I could have a middle gear, jog, if you will, I broke through the 200y barrrier, then 400, then 500, then 1000 in less than a month. "Jog" swimming helped me relax in the water, which helped me breathe more and better. I added "speed" later. I'm still not fast by BT measures (I usually average 1:55/100y for a 1000y set, and can do a single 100y in around 1:35), but I have resigned myself that to get 1-2 minutes faster in the swim for a Sprint Tri takes way, way, way more time & work than getting 1-2 minutes faster on the bike, run or even transitions. I actually calculated the percentage of time I spent on S/B/R from my first sprint tri last year (hilly bike course, and I'm from the flatlands), and it was S=9%, T1= 3%, B=53%, T2= 1.5%, R=32%. So, swim was less than 10% of my total time. Last year, the thought of the S freaked me out, so I focused on that too much, at the expense of the B & R. I'm focusing my training on B/R now, and just trying to maintain my mediocre S. Summary: For me, a great bike and run + MOP swim = a nice triathlon! |
| 2013-11-21 3:03 AM in reply to: DannyII |
Veteran 312 Columbus, OH | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? I appreciate all the responses. To answer some of the questions, I'm not looking to be fast. I'm looking to complete the required distances without endangering myself or others. The problem is that really I'm ok doing duathlons except I like long endurance events and finding anything close to a full duathlon is impossible. Basically, I only want to swim to complete a full length tri since there are no full length duathlons. I've tried various aids and tried slowing down and it still doesn't seem to help. I've had my form evaluated (again maybe not by the best instructors) and there was nothing terribly wrong. I do know that I probably have a better chance of learning to swim in my new location do to having a wider selection of instructors. For me, I would be happy with a good bike and run (for me) + completing the swim safely within required time limits. |
| 2013-11-21 3:10 AM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Member 1293 Pearland,Tx | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by RedCorvette I suppose it's possible if that's what you do for a living...and you are teaching in a big city where there is a high demand for swim lessons. Originally posted by JohnnyKay Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by RedCorvette High school teachers have the same students all year. I ran a program for 15 years, new sessions every 10 weeks. I think I'm conservative at 10,000. Originally posted by mike761 I've taught over 10,000 people to swim. Er, with all due respect, that seems like a lot of people. Most high school teachers won't have 10,000 students over a 30 year career. Mark 780 weeks of 1 session every 10 weeks equals 78 sessions. To get over 10,000, you need to have 128+ people per session. Or you have to run several sessions simultaneously.
Even with multiple sessions that's still 128+ new students every 10 weeks. Still seems like a lot. Mark That's alot of people wanting to learn to swim in 15 years and alot of weeks in a row with no vacation...........and 16 people per lane getting instruction....how many drowned?
Since Suzanne and some of the other posters addressed the OP's question, I'm very intrigued by this claim of teaching over 10,000 people to swim. My initial thought was that's one person every day, 365 days a year for over 27 years. Even teaching groups, the numbers seem a bit exaggerated.
C'mon an instructor specialized in MASS STARTS CHAOS!!! |
| 2013-11-21 5:29 AM in reply to: DannyII |
Extreme Veteran 933 Connecticut | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by DannyII What really helped me break through was taking my wife along to the pool when it wasn't busy. Really. She swims, very, very slowly, but she doesn't stop and can swim 1000y without a problem. I realized I had two swim speeds, stop and sprint. And, sprint equalled exploding lungs after 50 yards for me. Once I learned from her that I could have a middle gear, jog, if you will, I broke through the 200y barrrier, then 400, then 500, then 1000 in less than a month. "Jog" swimming helped me relax in the water, which helped me breathe more and better. I added "speed" later. I'm still not fast by BT measures (I usually average 1:55/100y for a 1000y set, and can do a single 100y in around 1:35), but I have resigned myself that to get 1-2 minutes faster in the swim for a Sprint Tri takes way, way, way more time & work than getting 1-2 minutes faster on the bike, run or even transitions. I actually calculated the percentage of time I spent on S/B/R from my first sprint tri last year (hilly bike course, and I'm from the flatlands), and it was S=9%, T1= 3%, B=53%, T2= 1.5%, R=32%. So, swim was less than 10% of my total time. Last year, the thought of the S freaked me out, so I focused on that too much, at the expense of the B & R. I'm focusing my training on B/R now, and just trying to maintain my mediocre S. Summary: For me, a great bike and run + MOP swim = a nice triathlon! Excellent post. My experience as well, and only entering my fourth year did I start seriously working on my swim. It simply wasn't worth the time investment until now. Finding that jog pace (great term btw!) is crucial. |
| 2013-11-21 5:30 AM in reply to: DannyII |
Extreme Veteran 933 Connecticut | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by DannyII What really helped me break through was taking my wife along to the pool when it wasn't busy. Really. She swims, very, very slowly, but she doesn't stop and can swim 1000y without a problem. I realized I had two swim speeds, stop and sprint. And, sprint equalled exploding lungs after 50 yards for me. Once I learned from her that I could have a middle gear, jog, if you will, I broke through the 200y barrrier, then 400, then 500, then 1000 in less than a month. "Jog" swimming helped me relax in the water, which helped me breathe more and better. I added "speed" later. I'm still not fast by BT measures (I usually average 1:55/100y for a 1000y set, and can do a single 100y in around 1:35), but I have resigned myself that to get 1-2 minutes faster in the swim for a Sprint Tri takes way, way, way more time & work than getting 1-2 minutes faster on the bike, run or even transitions. I actually calculated the percentage of time I spent on S/B/R from my first sprint tri last year (hilly bike course, and I'm from the flatlands), and it was S=9%, T1= 3%, B=53%, T2= 1.5%, R=32%. So, swim was less than 10% of my total time. Last year, the thought of the S freaked me out, so I focused on that too much, at the expense of the B & R. I'm focusing my training on B/R now, and just trying to maintain my mediocre S. Summary: For me, a great bike and run + MOP swim = a nice triathlon! Excellent post. My experience as well, and only entering my fourth year did I start seriously working on my swim. It simply wasn't worth the time investment until now. Finding that jog pace (great term btw!) is crucial. |
| 2013-11-21 5:30 AM in reply to: DannyII |
Extreme Veteran 933 Connecticut | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by DannyII What really helped me break through was taking my wife along to the pool when it wasn't busy. Really. She swims, very, very slowly, but she doesn't stop and can swim 1000y without a problem. I realized I had two swim speeds, stop and sprint. And, sprint equalled exploding lungs after 50 yards for me. Once I learned from her that I could have a middle gear, jog, if you will, I broke through the 200y barrrier, then 400, then 500, then 1000 in less than a month. "Jog" swimming helped me relax in the water, which helped me breathe more and better. I added "speed" later. I'm still not fast by BT measures (I usually average 1:55/100y for a 1000y set, and can do a single 100y in around 1:35), but I have resigned myself that to get 1-2 minutes faster in the swim for a Sprint Tri takes way, way, way more time & work than getting 1-2 minutes faster on the bike, run or even transitions. I actually calculated the percentage of time I spent on S/B/R from my first sprint tri last year (hilly bike course, and I'm from the flatlands), and it was S=9%, T1= 3%, B=53%, T2= 1.5%, R=32%. So, swim was less than 10% of my total time. Last year, the thought of the S freaked me out, so I focused on that too much, at the expense of the B & R. I'm focusing my training on B/R now, and just trying to maintain my mediocre S. Summary: For me, a great bike and run + MOP swim = a nice triathlon! Excellent post. My experience as well, and only entering my fourth year did I start seriously working on my swim. It simply wasn't worth the time investment until now. Finding that jog pace (great term btw!) is crucial. |
| 2013-11-21 7:46 AM in reply to: csikes |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by csikes I appreciate all the responses. To answer some of the questions, I'm not looking to be fast. I'm looking to complete the required distances without endangering myself or others. The problem is that really I'm ok doing duathlons except I like long endurance events and finding anything close to a full duathlon is impossible. Basically, I only want to swim to complete a full length tri since there are no full length duathlons. I've tried various aids and tried slowing down and it still doesn't seem to help. I've had my form evaluated (again maybe not by the best instructors) and there was nothing terribly wrong. I do know that I probably have a better chance of learning to swim in my new location do to having a wider selection of instructors. For me, I would be happy with a good bike and run (for me) + completing the swim safely within required time limits. First keep swimming! If you had an instructor look at your stroke and said it was ok, then it probably is at least fair. Of coarse you can improve your technique everyone can. Sounds like you have issues getting enough air. Most people learning to swim as adults skip the silly drill we use on kids that make kids learn faster. When your not getting enough air it's usually 1 of 2 things. 1 Your not breathing every stoke, in which case start breathing every stroke! 2 you don't blow your air out under water. If its #2 then you have to start blowing out under water. We teach kids to do this by holding onto the wall going under water and blowing ALL your air out before coming back up- taking and breath going under again. Sets of 10 or 20 at the beginning of every lesson. This is a skill most adult skip and therefore take a long time to get used to blowing out under water. There nothing wrong with practices of just doing 25yards at a time. Use the pace clock don't rest too much, if it takes you 25 second to swim 25 yards than go again when the clock hits 50 seconds. If your breathing is back to normal at 50 seconds then you should be going again at 40 seconds. At least once in your practice go long. How far can you go now? If you can only do 100 yards without stopping then do that, but next week do 125 yards with out stopping. You have to keep pushing, and one day you will have a break through. |
| 2013-11-21 12:02 PM in reply to: csikes |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by csikes I appreciate all the responses. To answer some of the questions, I'm not looking to be fast. I'm looking to complete the required distances without endangering myself or others. The problem is that really I'm ok doing duathlons except I like long endurance events and finding anything close to a full duathlon is impossible. Basically, I only want to swim to complete a full length tri since there are no full length duathlons. I've tried various aids and tried slowing down and it still doesn't seem to help. I've had my form evaluated (again maybe not by the best instructors) and there was nothing terribly wrong. I do know that I probably have a better chance of learning to swim in my new location do to having a wider selection of instructors. For me, I would be happy with a good bike and run (for me) + completing the swim safely within required time limits. If you're saying you still can't learn to swim...and an instructor has said there was nothing "terribly wrong" with your stroke, that was a "terribly bad" instructor. Post a video |
| 2013-11-21 12:05 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by csikes I appreciate all the responses. To answer some of the questions, I'm not looking to be fast. I'm looking to complete the required distances without endangering myself or others. The problem is that really I'm ok doing duathlons except I like long endurance events and finding anything close to a full duathlon is impossible. Basically, I only want to swim to complete a full length tri since there are no full length duathlons. I've tried various aids and tried slowing down and it still doesn't seem to help. I've had my form evaluated (again maybe not by the best instructors) and there was nothing terribly wrong. I do know that I probably have a better chance of learning to swim in my new location do to having a wider selection of instructors. For me, I would be happy with a good bike and run (for me) + completing the swim safely within required time limits. If you're saying you still can't learn to swim...and an instructor has said there was nothing "terribly wrong" with your stroke, that was a "terribly bad" instructor. Post a video Agree completely. |
| 2013-11-21 12:18 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| 553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? 1) Like how the thread got derailed. 2) Regarding the OP. Even water phobic adults can get to a competent standard. I think you need to focus on finding what it is that is the barrier. I have had some pretty wild moments on my bike (once nearly under a cement mixer) but that has never compared to the pain and panic of feeling desperate in the water. Fear plays so much a bigger part in swim practice. The frist few times you swim a sesison and do not swallow water. or the next few when you get good at coughing while under water, taking an extra stroke short on breath and then get back in your stroke routine. These things build into swim ability. Leave the drills till later and focus on time in the water and building confidence. That is my 2 pennys worth. |
| 2013-11-21 2:19 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by csikes I appreciate all the responses. To answer some of the questions, I'm not looking to be fast. I'm looking to complete the required distances without endangering myself or others. The problem is that really I'm ok doing duathlons except I like long endurance events and finding anything close to a full duathlon is impossible. Basically, I only want to swim to complete a full length tri since there are no full length duathlons. I've tried various aids and tried slowing down and it still doesn't seem to help. I've had my form evaluated (again maybe not by the best instructors) and there was nothing terribly wrong. I do know that I probably have a better chance of learning to swim in my new location do to having a wider selection of instructors. For me, I would be happy with a good bike and run (for me) + completing the swim safely within required time limits. If you're saying you still can't learn to swim...and an instructor has said there was nothing "terribly wrong" with your stroke, that was a "terribly bad" instructor. Post a video Agree completely. Make that three of us. I'd be curious to see you swim, because if you really are struggling that much (and not just being too hard on yourself) it's contradictory for someone who knows what they're looking at to say you don't look bad. If you post a video, you'll have to wade through the responses to find gold nuggets of advice, but I can guarantee you will get some useful feedback.
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| 2013-11-21 2:46 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Group lessons, multiple lessons a day in a Philly suburb. Filled all classes every session, even had people coming over from NJ. Never had one that couldn't learn to swim. That does not include some of the summer stuff I did. Once my kids are out of the house, I might start teaching again there seems to be a lack of good instructors'. I say that to this day there are not 10,000 people in Philly who can swim. I resemble that remark! |
| 2013-11-21 3:39 PM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Group lessons, multiple lessons a day in a Philly suburb. Filled all classes every session, even had people coming over from NJ. Never had one that couldn't learn to swim. That does not include some of the summer stuff I did. Once my kids are out of the house, I might start teaching again there seems to be a lack of good instructors'. I say that to this day there are not 10,000 people in Philly who can swim. I resemble that remark! HAHAHAHA!! I've been waiting on you to show up.
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| 2013-11-21 4:45 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Group lessons, multiple lessons a day in a Philly suburb. Filled all classes every session, even had people coming over from NJ. Never had one that couldn't learn to swim. That does not include some of the summer stuff I did. Once my kids are out of the house, I might start teaching again there seems to be a lack of good instructors'. I say that to this day there are not 10,000 people in Philly who can swim. I resemble that remark! HAHAHAHA!! I've been waiting on you to show up.
Sorry, took a few days off BT to work. My bad, won't let it happen again And I bet there are 10,000 people in Philly who can swim. Heck, over 3,000 people showed up for the Philly Tri this year to swim in the Schuylkill (Sure-kill if you're a native). |
| 2013-11-21 4:52 PM in reply to: csikes |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? Originally posted by csikes I appreciate all the responses. To answer some of the questions, I'm not looking to be fast. I'm looking to complete the required distances without endangering myself or others. The problem is that really I'm ok doing duathlons except I like long endurance events and finding anything close to a full duathlon is impossible. Basically, I only want to swim to complete a full length tri since there are no full length duathlons. I've tried various aids and tried slowing down and it still doesn't seem to help. I've had my form evaluated (again maybe not by the best instructors) and there was nothing terribly wrong. I do know that I probably have a better chance of learning to swim in my new location do to having a wider selection of instructors. For me, I would be happy with a good bike and run (for me) + completing the swim safely within required time limits. Just a thought, but maybe it's your kick and not your stroke. I had a very hard time swimming any distance and it turned out I was kicking way too much and too hard. My swim instructor said it was typical of runners. Those big muscles require lots of oxygen. Kicking from the knee induces drag, too. Now I am on a 2-beat kick, and my feet move a fraction of what they used to, from the hip, and it's so much easier. |
| 2013-11-21 7:00 PM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
| 928 | Subject: RE: Anyone tried to learn to swim and couldn't? It really isn't right to say that you tried to learn to swim and couldn't. You CAN do short swims and you can definitely build to longer. How fast are you trying to do each lap? Are you going all out each time, and then have to stop? I would suggest looking at the Ruth Kazez "0 to Mile" swim plans. Start with 0 to 700 yards (or metres). http://ruthkazez.com/SwimWorkouts/ZeroTo1mile.html I would guess that if you slow down a bit, rest every 50m, you can gradually build up to longer swims. |
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