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2013-12-03 5:05 PM

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Subject: Political Joe TAN

OK, to appease Jeff I feel we must have more activity in this thread.  The obvious solution is to create a political TAN.  ;-)

 



2013-12-03 5:05 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

I just read this and thought it was pretty interesting.  Seems like somebody around here was saying this would happen a couple years ago.

Administration struggles to sign up young 'invincibles' for ObamaCare

My favorite part: 

That's because statistics show, the average uninsured male between the ages of 21 and 35 will see a physician as seldom as six times during that 14-year period, according to Carl Schramm, a former insurance company executive who now teaches economic policy at Syracuse University.

For those who are insured, the New York health care consultant company Milliman says men 19-34 years old will see a doctor 1.8 times a year compared with women, who will on average see a doctor 3.6 times. The two data points suggest many young people may not see health insurance as necessary.

"Most of them have zero health costs. In fact, the median health care spending for this group is exactly zero," said economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former head of the Congressional Budget Office.

So what exactly was ACA trying to fix with these uninsured people?

2013-12-03 7:03 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by tuwood

 

So what exactly was ACA trying to fix with these uninsured people?

Their disposable income.   No, really. 

I'm fed up with the idea that the young somehow "owe it to the old people" to take care of them.  Parents take care of their kids, not the other way around.  It disgusts me.     We're saddling our youth with a burden they will never be able to bear.  Both with Obamacare and the disaster of Social Security. 

2013-12-03 7:37 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
Hahahahahahahaha!
2013-12-03 8:26 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
Originally posted by tuwood

I just read this and thought it was pretty interesting.  Seems like somebody around here was saying this would happen a couple years ago.

Administration struggles to sign up young 'invincibles' for ObamaCare

My favorite part: 

That's because statistics show, the average uninsured male between the ages of 21 and 35 will see a physician as seldom as six times during that 14-year period, according to Carl Schramm, a former insurance company executive who now teaches economic policy at Syracuse University.

For those who are insured, the New York health care consultant company Milliman says men 19-34 years old will see a doctor 1.8 times a year compared with women, who will on average see a doctor 3.6 times. The two data points suggest many young people may not see health insurance as necessary.

"Most of them have zero health costs. In fact, the median health care spending for this group is exactly zero," said economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former head of the Congressional Budget Office.

So what exactly was ACA trying to fix with these uninsured people?




Your question assumes ACA was intended to fix an uninsured problem. ACA has at its roots two goals. First the eventual takeover of all healthcare by the govt. Second, the redistribution of wealth by having those contributing members to the American economy pay for those that do not.

There will still be millions of uninsured even after a decade. According to the CBO there will still be 30 million uninsured by 2022. The difference is who makes up that population. The young and healthy will be the new uninsured and the high consumers of healthcare will be covered. Costs on a per insured basis will rise. It is an actuarial certainty.
2013-12-03 8:48 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by tuwood

I just read this and thought it was pretty interesting.  Seems like somebody around here was saying this would happen a couple years ago.

Administration struggles to sign up young 'invincibles' for ObamaCare

My favorite part: 

That's because statistics show, the average uninsured male between the ages of 21 and 35 will see a physician as seldom as six times during that 14-year period, according to Carl Schramm, a former insurance company executive who now teaches economic policy at Syracuse University.

For those who are insured, the New York health care consultant company Milliman says men 19-34 years old will see a doctor 1.8 times a year compared with women, who will on average see a doctor 3.6 times. The two data points suggest many young people may not see health insurance as necessary.

"Most of them have zero health costs. In fact, the median health care spending for this group is exactly zero," said economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former head of the Congressional Budget Office.

So what exactly was ACA trying to fix with these uninsured people?

if the median is zero - that means at least half of these guys spend zero dollars on health care - how is that even possible????  also, women get the added luxury of annual health screening exams and hormonal birth control that men don't spend on but certainly benefit from, so why not spread that cost around some?



2013-12-03 9:02 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by tuwood

I just read this and thought it was pretty interesting.  Seems like somebody around here was saying this would happen a couple years ago.

Administration struggles to sign up young 'invincibles' for ObamaCare

My favorite part: 

That's because statistics show, the average uninsured male between the ages of 21 and 35 will see a physician as seldom as six times during that 14-year period, according to Carl Schramm, a former insurance company executive who now teaches economic policy at Syracuse University.

For those who are insured, the New York health care consultant company Milliman says men 19-34 years old will see a doctor 1.8 times a year compared with women, who will on average see a doctor 3.6 times. The two data points suggest many young people may not see health insurance as necessary.

"Most of them have zero health costs. In fact, the median health care spending for this group is exactly zero," said economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former head of the Congressional Budget Office.

So what exactly was ACA trying to fix with these uninsured people?

if the median is zero - that means at least half of these guys spend zero dollars on health care - how is that even possible????  also, women get the added luxury of annual health screening exams and hormonal birth control that men don't spend on but certainly benefit from, so why not spread that cost around some?

 

I did not go to the doctor (or the dentist) for at least 6 years  20-26.   From 26-39, I've gone to the dentist regularly  but   I've gone to the doctor maybe.... maybe 5 times for an actual problem in the past 13 years.   I've taken no prescription medicine.  If I didn't need a physical for my CDL every 2 years, I probably wouldn't have gone much more than those 5 times.   I've had a few "involuntary" workups in preparation for our adoptions.

 

 

2013-12-03 9:14 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by tuwood

I just read this and thought it was pretty interesting.  Seems like somebody around here was saying this would happen a couple years ago.

Administration struggles to sign up young 'invincibles' for ObamaCare

My favorite part: 

That's because statistics show, the average uninsured male between the ages of 21 and 35 will see a physician as seldom as six times during that 14-year period, according to Carl Schramm, a former insurance company executive who now teaches economic policy at Syracuse University.

For those who are insured, the New York health care consultant company Milliman says men 19-34 years old will see a doctor 1.8 times a year compared with women, who will on average see a doctor 3.6 times. The two data points suggest many young people may not see health insurance as necessary.

"Most of them have zero health costs. In fact, the median health care spending for this group is exactly zero," said economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former head of the Congressional Budget Office.

So what exactly was ACA trying to fix with these uninsured people?

The median spend on flood damage is also zero.  That doesn't make flood insurance worthless.

Insurance doesn't exist to take care of the median case.  Insurance exists to allow people to mitigate the impact of low-probability, but devastatingly expensive, events. 

2013-12-03 9:27 PM
in reply to: Hoos

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by Hoos

 

The median spend on flood damage is also zero.  That doesn't make flood insurance worthless.

Insurance doesn't exist to take care of the median case.  Insurance exists to allow people to mitigate the impact of low-probability, but devastatingly expensive, events. 

Sadly, for people in the US, they expect medical "insurance" to work this way. 

2013-12-03 9:28 PM
in reply to: Hoos

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

I want my MTV.

2013-12-03 9:52 PM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
Originally posted by mehaner

if the median is zero - that means at least half of these guys spend zero dollars on health care - how is that even possible????  also, women get the added luxury of annual health screening exams and hormonal birth control that men don't spend on but certainly benefit from, so why not spread that cost around some?




Half of the 'young invincible' spending zero on healthcare has been an actuarial reality for many years. It was one of the driving factors in high deductible health plans. It allowed people to accept the risk of having to pay for a big expense with dollars saved by lower premiums at a time when they were likely to use little to no services. In every large group client I have ever had there has always been a certain percentage of the population that filed no claims in any given year. In 15 years I don't recall there ever being a time when that zero use population was under 20%.

Your idea of spreading the cost around is exactly what ACA does. The govt decides that everyone should share the cost of certain procedures by requiring coverage even if it can never be used by some. That means every person covered by a group policy must pay for pediatric dentistry. Statistically only a very small percentage of people with coverage has young children who will benefit but that lobby was successful in getting that included in the list of Essential Benefits. It's the same reason everyone pays to have maternity coverage, even single males, all people beyond child bearing years etc,

The problem arises with where you draw the line. I have twice been injured while cycling, the last time fracturing my hip this past April. I think everyone should have to include a specific accident rider so when this happens my costs are less. (sorry, no sarcastic font) When the concept of Essential Benefits was being discussed you would not believe some of the proposals being floated by special interests. Each wanting to have their favorite product/service made mandatory. Govt mandated coverage has always driven up the cost of insurance.


2013-12-03 10:10 PM
in reply to: #4907847

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
Great thread idea.


Meh (I don't know how to quote on this iPad but god help me I'm about to throw it across the room) but count me as one of those young invincibles. The last time I went to a doctor was in 2009 after my HIM where I had some ITBS that needed rehabbing. Not sure when I will end up going. Probably when I'm sick.
2013-12-03 10:12 PM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

If you call it TAN, they will come. 

2013-12-03 10:26 PM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by JoshR Great thread idea. Meh (I don't know how to quote on this iPad but god help me I'm about to throw it across the room) but count me as one of those young invincibles. The last time I went to a doctor was in 2009 after my HIM where I had some ITBS that needed rehabbing. Not sure when I will end up going. Probably when I'm sick.

 

P***y.    (I keed, I keed!)

We don't even take our kids to the doctor unless a fever tops 104, or it drags on for more than 5 days.  It's not even a cost issue, I'm 100% covered for everything under the sun while on my expat assignment.   

 

And I agree that this is a great thread idea.  I'm hoping I can lob in some of the doosies that we seem to get almost weekly here in China.   Stuff that's fun to discuss... but probably doesn't need its own thread.

2013-12-04 2:24 AM
in reply to: Hoos

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
Originally posted by Hoos

Originally posted by tuwood

I just read this and thought it was pretty interesting.  Seems like somebody around here was saying this would happen a couple years ago.

Administration struggles to sign up young 'invincibles' for ObamaCare

My favorite part: 

That's because statistics show, the average uninsured male between the ages of 21 and 35 will see a physician as seldom as six times during that 14-year period, according to Carl Schramm, a former insurance company executive who now teaches economic policy at Syracuse University.

For those who are insured, the New York health care consultant company Milliman says men 19-34 years old will see a doctor 1.8 times a year compared with women, who will on average see a doctor 3.6 times. The two data points suggest many young people may not see health insurance as necessary.

"Most of them have zero health costs. In fact, the median health care spending for this group is exactly zero," said economist Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former head of the Congressional Budget Office.

So what exactly was ACA trying to fix with these uninsured people?

The median spend on flood damage is also zero.  That doesn't make flood insurance worthless.

Insurance doesn't exist to take care of the median case.  Insurance exists to allow people to mitigate the impact of low-probability, but devastatingly expensive, events. 




Which is why catastrophic insurance is perfect for young people. Unfortunately that's not an option anymore, since young people are now required to buy comprehensive insurance in order to subsidize those who use the most healthcare resources.
2013-12-04 5:26 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by Stuartap 

Half of the 'young invincible' spending zero on healthcare has been an actuarial reality for many years. It was one of the driving factors in high deductible health plans.

I guess if it's a fact it's a fact - I just can't wrap my mind around not having to see a doctor for 15 years!  You people are LUCKY, trust me.  Even with my healthcare, I do the math every year and the high deductible plans are still a better deal for me, but mainly because of the employer added HSA/FSA funding that pays the majority of my out of pocket costs to reach said deductible.



Edited by mehaner 2013-12-04 5:28 AM


2013-12-04 6:59 AM
in reply to: mehaner

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by Stuartap 

Half of the 'young invincible' spending zero on healthcare has been an actuarial reality for many years. It was one of the driving factors in high deductible health plans.

I guess if it's a fact it's a fact - I just can't wrap my mind around not having to see a doctor for 15 years!  You people are LUCKY, trust me.  Even with my healthcare, I do the math every year and the high deductible plans are still a better deal for me, but mainly because of the employer added HSA/FSA funding that pays the majority of my out of pocket costs to reach said deductible.

I'll throw myself in there as well.  Other than immunizations when I was young I never once went to the doctor as a kid.  Not a single time.  The Navy did our annual physicals and stuff, so I technically went to the doctor (not out of need) from 17 to 23.  From then on, I never went to the Doctor until three years ago when I was 37.  Even then it was me calling to do a wellness checkup because I was doing all these crazy triathlon things.  The doctor even looked at me funny as to why I was going to the doctor for a wellness checkup.  lol

I've always had very good insurance through my employers this entire time.  I would say at a conservative level my total insurance probably averaged $500/mo. (employer plus employee contribution) over this period of time.  So, from the age of 23 until today (age 40) I'd say I've paid in over $100k in insurance premiums with a net deduction of probably under $1000 over this period of time.  I'm the guy they don't want to lose on insurance.  

In the last few years my family has had some medical expenses which probably topped $10k or so, but the vast majority of that was paid out of pocket due to being on an HSA with a high deductible the last 4 years.

Obviously I'm just one guy, but I would say the vast majority of people are similar to me.  Hence, the article where young adults simply don't "want" insurance. 

2013-12-04 7:01 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

btw, that Global Warming was really cold and icy on my way to work this morning.  

2013-12-04 7:40 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
Originally posted by tuwood

btw, that Global Warming was really cold and icy on my way to work this morning.  




The high in Boise for the next few days is.....23.
2013-12-04 7:56 AM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by tuwood

btw, that Global Warming was really cold and icy on my way to work this morning.  

The high in Boise for the next few days is.....23.

I've got a new sales guy that started a few weeks back.  He grew up in So Cal and went to school at TCU.  We're having a lot of fun watching him deal with the cold.  Last week he went to drive somewhere and walked back in the office with a stunned look on his face and said  "There's ice frozen to my windshield".  haha

2013-12-04 8:18 AM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by tuwood

btw, that Global Warming was really cold and icy on my way to work this morning.  

The high in Boise for the next few days is.....23.

Going to be almost 70 in St. Louis today.   And then there's this...

 Displaying photo.JPG



2013-12-04 8:45 AM
in reply to: kevin_trapp

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
You know what I despise? The health insurance industry with or without Obamacare. We're about to have our 2nd child and I'm already dreading going through this hassle again. Here is how it's going to work.

- Baby Oliver is born and I give the hospital my insurance info
- I ask my work to add him, but I have to wait until I get his SS number which takes 2-3 months
- Insurance company sends me a letter saying he's not on my insurance so they won't pay
- I finally get a SS card for him and send it in to my work along with proof of birth
- I call up the hospital and tell them to rebill my insurance
- Inevitably it won't have been processed yet so it will be rejected
- I call again, this time it works
- I get 200 statements in the mail most stating "This is not a bill"
- 6 months after he is born I get to find out what the damage is

Awesome.
2013-12-04 8:59 AM
in reply to: JoshR

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Originally posted by JoshR You know what I despise? The health insurance industry with or without Obamacare. We're about to have our 2nd child and I'm already dreading going through this hassle again. Here is how it's going to work. - Baby Oliver is born and I give the hospital my insurance info - I ask my work to add him, but I have to wait until I get his SS number which takes 2-3 months - Insurance company sends me a letter saying he's not on my insurance so they won't pay - I finally get a SS card for him and send it in to my work along with proof of birth - I call up the hospital and tell them to rebill my insurance - Inevitably it won't have been processed yet so it will be rejected - I call again, this time it works - I get 200 statements in the mail most stating "This is not a bill" - 6 months after he is born I get to find out what the damage is Awesome.

I was too happy when all of my kids were born to worry about that kind of stuff.  In the end it all works out like it's supposed to.  I agree that it seems needlessly long and ridiculous, but compared to my children being healthy and happy..........I couldn't care less.

2013-12-04 9:11 AM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN

Originally posted by JoshR The high in Boise for the next few days is.....23.

Try coming to Calgary.  The high for the next few days is zero.   Fahrenheit.

2013-12-04 9:34 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Political Joe TAN
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by JoshR You know what I despise? The health insurance industry with or without Obamacare. We're about to have our 2nd child and I'm already dreading going through this hassle again. Here is how it's going to work. - Baby Oliver is born and I give the hospital my insurance info - I ask my work to add him, but I have to wait until I get his SS number which takes 2-3 months - Insurance company sends me a letter saying he's not on my insurance so they won't pay - I finally get a SS card for him and send it in to my work along with proof of birth - I call up the hospital and tell them to rebill my insurance - Inevitably it won't have been processed yet so it will be rejected - I call again, this time it works - I get 200 statements in the mail most stating "This is not a bill" - 6 months after he is born I get to find out what the damage is Awesome.

I was too happy when all of my kids were born to worry about that kind of stuff.  In the end it all works out like it's supposed to.  I agree that it seems needlessly long and ridiculous, but compared to my children being healthy and happy..........I couldn't care less.




Oh I am very happy about the healthy baby. but being sleep deprived and on a tight budget, dealing with all of this just stresses me out too much.
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