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2014-03-30 6:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

Originally posted by marcag
I am travelling so cannot post the workouts until tomorrow AM but everyone should be able to test with the previous round of testing. Who is doing it this week and who is not ?

I won't be testing this week. I had to have some minor surgery on Weds and won't be back on the bike until next week. Apparently my focus this season is going to be losing then regaining fitness. I completed Wk 12 THR 1 prior and felt really good although the last 5 mins of the second interval were pretty tough. I'll probably repeat the last two weeks before testing again.

That said, thank-you to both you and Shane for this group. The guidance and structure have been incredibly helpful and I've learned a great deal.



Edited by kcarroll 2014-03-30 7:16 PM




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kimc-2014-03-24-bt-power-week-12-thr-1-853830.tcx (1974KB - 6 downloads)


2014-03-30 7:43 PM
in reply to: kcarroll

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

I missed a whole week of riding. I ran a lot and swam a couple of times though.  I hate making excuses, but work got in the way and somehow I ended up with a bad cold (and I rarely get sick). I probably could have squeezed them in, but really had no desire to ride in the basement so I didn't. Yesterday I did Week 12 TH1 (I completely skipped Week 11) and knew I was in trouble from the beginning. My PowerTap lost signal a few times which frustrated me, and I felt like crap, I almost quit after the first 20 minute interval. I decided to modify the second one - I did 7 X 2' very hard effort w/ 1' easy recovery.  I have to say 2 minutes 7 times was tough, but mentally I could convince myself to do that vs. another 20 minutes.

Today I rode outside on a route I will ride a lot during training this summer. I felt pretty good despite the trainer ride yesterday, swimming yesterday with a lot of kicking (still can't swim much freestyle with the shoulder), and running 10 miles this morning. It was not a long ride, but it was a solid effort.

So I'm not sure if I should continue with Week 12 & test next week, or back up to Week 11 and test in 2 weeks. I'm officially starting Week 3 of my IM training plan and have a lot of workouts to fit in and it will only build from here - so maybe I should test this week.....

I will say today's ride seemed like a solid effort and I feel like the last several weeks of training has made a difference. I felt stronger on some of the climbs. And between having been sick last week and the last few days of workouts, I felt much better than I would have expected.





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WK12 TH1~~~.tcx (2352KB - 3 downloads)
KR Outdoor Ride.tcx (4777KB - 2 downloads)
2014-03-30 9:11 PM
in reply to: karen26.2


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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

I'll be testing late this week, or more likely very early next week. I have a HM in 2 weeks, so this week is still pretty heavy training, but I will be bringing it down a notch next week to recover a bit before the race. Testing is hard, but not too hard to recover from, so it will fit in nicely next week with bringing the volume down, but keeping the intensity up.

Did the week 12 sweet spot workout. I definitely feel better than the first week or so after the last testing period, but its still no cakewalk.

File attached.



(SSwk12.png)



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activity_470771449.tcx (856KB - 4 downloads)
SSwk12.png (83KB - 7 downloads)
2014-03-31 5:07 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
Originally posted by ligersandtions
This (in addition to yesterday's long run) are really helping me feel like I'm getting close to ready for SG70.3!




There is no doubt, you are ready !
2014-03-31 5:14 AM
in reply to: WaterRat

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
Originally posted by WaterRat

Question about what's next after testing. Can we just go back and do the 2nd half workouts again with our new CP?

Ron


We can discuss as a group what we want to do.

I suspect everyone will go in their own direction with their own plan I plan as a minimum to toggle e-mail notifications and if people have questions/comments....they can post in here and we can continue discussing. It's up to you guys.

For training, yes, doing some of the workouts from the 2nd half are definitely worthwhile. You have built up to 2x20@CP. Something like that on a semi regular basis is pretty good. But 4x10, 3x12.....just to mi it up are fine as well.
I will be doing longer rides with some intervals in the middle of the ride. That works well for me for HIM distance.
But I also like to do a VO2 workout now and then (especially with hills).

Does anyone plan to do some aero testing ?

2014-03-31 5:18 AM
in reply to: kcarroll

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
Originally posted by kcarroll
Apparently my focus this season is going to be losing then regaining fitness.


That sucks. I can kind of relate.

During this program I did the ST 100 day 100 run challenge and I was always 'on the edge' with running injuries.

I am having a hard time figuring out how close to the edge I am and how much I just need to ignore it. I have backed off the run in the last week but I suspect it's going to take a while for ll the old ligaments to heal up properly.





2014-03-31 8:48 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
Last week was a wash for me as well. My left leg didn't feel "right" until mid week. I got back on the bike Saturday morning to so the Sweet Spot from Week 11. Didn't have it during the 2nd interval so I cut it short. 1st workout I haven't done a 100%+ since we formed this band of merry folk.

Did a good track workout running yesterday. Was going to try to cycle this morning, but Monday's are always tough. Thinking of tonight but don't want to screw up 5 minute test on Wed.
2014-03-31 9:33 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by WaterRat

Question about what's next after testing. Can we just go back and do the 2nd half workouts again with our new CP?

Ron


We can discuss as a group what we want to do.

I suspect everyone will go in their own direction with their own plan I plan as a minimum to toggle e-mail notifications and if people have questions/comments....they can post in here and we can continue discussing. It's up to you guys.

For training, yes, doing some of the workouts from the 2nd half are definitely worthwhile. You have built up to 2x20@CP. Something like that on a semi regular basis is pretty good. But 4x10, 3x12.....just to mi it up are fine as well.
I will be doing longer rides with some intervals in the middle of the ride. That works well for me for HIM distance.
But I also like to do a VO2 workout now and then (especially with hills).

Does anyone plan to do some aero testing ?


I'm hoping to play around with a bit of aero testing once the roads are in decent shape around here. We just got more sleet and freezing rain this morning... I've got to look for a good stretch of road where I can focus on the riding and not have to worry about traffic that much.

After testing this week I will be following my plan more closely but I will still be utilizing the workouts we've been doing here when they are applicable.

Week 12 was mostly good, the SWE-1 kicked my a$$ again but that is partly because the structure of the plan with a long ride on Sat & then I do the SWE ride on Sun in place of the plan ride. I think it also has to do with the overall fatigue due to the increase in running and swim training.

Rest day today!! First since the plan started. Wow, already 3 weeks done & only 17 to go. I really feel this group has helped me prepare for the this plan in a big way. And most of all given me a lot more insight into working with power and training stress levels. From reviewing my data over the past 10 months I've been able to see some definite patterns.

Another important thing. What was the charity again?! Marc, I looked on your profile but didn't see it and I haven't had the opportunity to look through the early pages of the thread yet.






Attachments
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cdkayak-2014-03-30-bt-week-12-swe-1-en_mod-870687.tcx (3337KB - 3 downloads)
cdkayak-2014-03-29-en_wk3_long_ftp_2x12_150-867198.tcx (4234KB - 2 downloads)
cdkayak-2014-03-26-bt-power-week-12-thr-1-859912.tcx (2068KB - 3 downloads)
2014-03-31 12:25 PM
in reply to: cdkayak

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

I'm still 2 weeks behind the finish line, so 2 more weeks until I test.

Had my adventure race this past weekend, 2nd of the year.  Faired much better than the adventure race in February.  We got 2nd place this go around.  Always difficult to race against the locals who have the upper hand on navigation.  The pair that beat us rode a tandem bike.  It was an urban race, and I would never have expected a tandem bike, but it gave them quite an advantage in the wind, and add in the fact they were local racers they had the upper hand.  It was a really fun race and we were happy with 2nd place.  

I decided to take yesterday and today as days off cardio and focused on core this morning, and did squats, push-ups, and planks yesterday.

My next adventure race is a 12 hour off road in Kansas in 2 weeks.  Lord I hope I survive.  As long as I keep up with Nutrition and slow down some I should be ok.

I still haven't planned out any triathlons for the year.  I have several on my calendar but they all seem to be bunched up together in July.

2014-03-31 2:30 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

Originally posted by marcag I am travelling so cannot post the workouts until tomorrow AM but everyone should be able to test with the previous round of testing. Who is doing it this week and who is not ?

I'll be testing Sunday during a uphill TT that should take me around 22-23 minutes.  Likely too fat to set a PR, but the power numbers should be there.

2014-04-01 8:49 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Oakville
Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

Does anyone plan to do some aero testing ?

Unfortunately, I'm still using virtual power and can't aero test, but I did have a few questions for the group (hopefully RChung is still monitoring this thread) and whether there was any aero penalty for each of the following gear:

  • I've been fortunate, and have never dealt with a flat during a race, but even though I will only be racing Sprints and Olympics I plan on taking a flat kit. In the off-season I bought the Torrhans VR Aero Frame bottle and plan to stow away the flat kit there.  I have the Felt B16 and so can only mount on the seat tube.
  • Last season I bought a can of Vittoria Pit Stop and would tape it under the top tube at the front butting up against the head tube.  If there is no or minimal aero penalty, I was planning on using it again this year for a quick flat repair and try to stay in a race.  Is there a better placement than under the top tube?  I've seen other racers tape it to the back of the seat tube, but I think there is more exposure there.
  • For the 30km Sprints and the Olympics I plan on using my Profile Design Aero Bottle between the aero bars.  As was discussed earlier, I have cut the straw very short and was even thinking of switching to a flexible straw that could be bent and attached to the top of the bottle when not in use. Is there any aero penalty with the bottle itself (I prefer it to the horizontal bottle holder between the arms).
  • Also, for the 30km and 40km bike legs, I have a small bento box to put a gel flask and which used to hold a few extra parts of the flat kit.  I think the Torrhans bottle can hold everything I need, so would only use the bento box for the gel flask if there was little or no aero penalty and, if a problem, would otherwise just tape a gel or two to the top tube. I've seen it mounted either against the stem or at the back against the seat post - does one have a better aero profile over the other?

I was also wondering how people position their heads in aero position.  I have the Giro Advantage 2 aero helmet, but have always struggled with neck flexibility and looking straight ahead during a race.  Instead, I position the helmet high on my forehead to keep the tail close to my back, and tend to look slightly downwards (about 15 yards or so in front of my front wheel) and then look down the road every 20 to 30 seconds or so and for passing and cornering. 

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on the above?

Scott



2014-04-01 9:42 AM
in reply to: crissy_jo

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
I did my first Sufferfest ride in a long while last night. (We'll see how it impacts testing later this week). I did Angels for those that are familiar. The ERG file I used for the ride had the RPE 7, 8, & 9 at 101%, 114% and 127% of CP. By the last 8 minute climb (alternates between RPE 8 and 9 the whole climb) I was dying and couldn't hit the power targets. I still cranked on the last 21 second sprint at the end of "Alpe d'Huez". Normalized power for the 10' of over/unders and 3 8' climbs were 104%, 113%, 109% and 110% of CP respectively. I love how he sufferfest videos motivate you to embrace the pain. Legs feel surprisingly okay today.





(Capture.PNG)



Attachments
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Capture.PNG (209KB - 4 downloads)
2014-04-01 12:31 PM
in reply to: trisuppo

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

I'm just shy of five weeks out from my race, so my plan was to go back and do Weeks 10, 11, and 12.  I attempted Week 10, Threshold 1 this morning and my legs told me, "Ummm, you've gotta be kidding me!!"  I modified the 2x20' intervals to 8x5' intervals on 1' rest....even then, I couldn't quite hit the power I was aiming for.  I guess that's what I get for having a big (great) weekend!

I'm going to call that Threshold 2 and try Threshold 1 again on Thursday

2014-04-01 1:46 PM
in reply to: croyston

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Subject: RE: Week 9
Sorry I haven't done my RR yet. Went to bed early after the race and had an 8 hour drive home the next day.

Real Life has decided to catch up with me now that my race is done, so I haven't had a chance to write anything since being home.

I hope to write something up tonight.

As for testing, I'll try to test this week. I still have to take off my race tires and put my trainer tires back on the bike.

Chris
2014-04-01 3:00 PM
in reply to: croyston

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Subject: RE: Week 9
Originally posted by croyston

As for testing, I'll try to test this week. I still have to take off my race tires and put my trainer tires back on the bike.

Chris


I would rest a bit. You probably still have a lot of hurt in you, even if you can't feel it.

I know from blood tests that there is residual hurt in me 2 weeks after a HIM.
2014-04-01 6:29 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
Originally posted by Scott71
I bought the Torrhans VR Aero Frame bottle and plan to stow away the flat kit there.  I have the Felt B16 and so can only mount on the seat tube.


This is a great option. The bottle actually produces an aero advantage of about 1 watt. Better than a drag !

Originally posted by Scott71
  • Last season I bought a can of Vittoria Pit Stop and would tape it under the top tube at the front butting up against the head tube.  If there is no or minimal aero penalty, I was planning on using it again this year for a quick flat repair and try to stay in a race.  Is there a better placement than under the top tube?  I've seen other racers tape it to the back of the seat tube, but I think there is more exposure there.



  • I have seen the same but have no idea of penalty

    Originally posted by Scott71
    For the 30km Sprints and the Olympics I plan on using my Profile Design Aero Bottle between the aero bars.  As was discussed earlier, I have cut the straw very short and was even thinking of switching to a flexible straw that could be bent and attached to the top of the bottle when not in use. Is there any aero penalty with the bottle itself (I prefer it to the horizontal bottle holder between the arms).



  • I suspect it would be minimal if any. The Torhans actuallly tested positive on some bikes.

    Originally posted by Scott71
    Also, for the 30km and 40km bike legs, I have a small bento box to put a gel flask and which used to hold a few extra parts of the flat kit.  I think the Torrhans bottle can hold everything I need, so would only use the bento box for the gel flask if there was little or no aero penalty and, if a problem, would otherwise just tape a gel or two to the top tube. I've seen it mounted either against the stem or at the back against the seat post - does one have a better aero profile over the other?


    DarkSpeedWorks makes great bento boxes

    Originally posted by Scott71

    I was also wondering how people position their heads in aero position.  I have the Giro Advantage 2 aero helmet, but have always struggled with neck flexibility and looking straight ahead during a race.  Instead, I position the helmet high on my forehead to keep the tail close to my back, and tend to look slightly downwards (about 15 yards or so in front of my front wheel) and then look down the road every 20 to 30 seconds or so and for passing and cornering. 

    Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on the above?

    Scott




    That picture I posted last week is how I position my head with the Giro advantage 2. Use a side camera and film yourself to get the best head position.


    2014-04-02 6:24 AM
    in reply to: Jason N

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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
    Originally posted by Jason N

    Originally posted by marcag I am travelling so cannot post the workouts until tomorrow AM but everyone should be able to test with the previous round of testing. Who is doing it this week and who is not ?

    I'll be testing Sunday during a uphill TT that should take me around 22-23 minutes.  Likely too fat to set a PR, but the power numbers should be there.





    I have a TT outdoors on April 18th. I am going to use that as a test. Hopefully all the snow will be gone :-)
    2014-04-02 9:06 AM
    in reply to: marcag

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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

    That picture I posted last week is how I position my head with the Giro advantage 2. Use a side camera and film yourself to get the best head position.

    Thanks Marc! 

    It may be overkill to have the flat kit and the Pit Stop, but if there is little or no aero penalty then if I'd like to try to stay in the race.  I know some people don't take either on Sprint or even Olympic races, but the idea of having to walk several kms carrying my bike is worth the extra weight IMO.  Also, almost all of my races are either flat or rolling hills, so the weight isn't really a factor for me.

    I've been working on trying to turtle my head, but its a balance between comfort and the best aero position.

     

    2014-04-02 7:11 PM
    in reply to: Scott71

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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
    Will try to get test in the next the week or so as I have a Sprint this weekend and a weird work schedule next week. About 12 weeks out from IM CDA as well.

    Tom
    2014-04-02 10:05 PM
    in reply to: 0

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    Oakville
    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!

    Completed Week 12 Threshold 1 on Monday night and then V02-1 tonight.

    Both were challenging but felt good. 

    For the V02 session tonight, although we were supposed to target >108%, I was only able to actually hit 108% twice.  My intervals were 107%, 106%, 108%, 107% and 108%.

    On target for just under 300 TSS this week, which will be a personal best for me.  

    The ATL of my PMC chart is on a steep climb upwards after a week off two weeks ago.

    Will do either Threshold 2 or Sweet Spot on Friday and then test next week.



    Edited by Scott71 2014-04-02 10:09 PM




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    WK12THR1.tcx (2870KB - 4 downloads)
    WK12V02A.tcx (2950KB - 4 downloads)
    2014-04-03 7:32 AM
    in reply to: 0

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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
    Did the 5' test last night. I dialed up some Metallica (Sad but True) to coincide with the 5 minutes of pain and agony. I started out too hard (my usual MO) and did my best to hang on. By the end I couldn't hear the music anymore as I was just thinking "turn the pedals, turn the pedals, just keep turning the pedals". I shifted into an easier gear at one point and saw too much power drop off and had trouble getting the watts back up to target. At the end its amazing how little strength you have left in your legs. Absolute awesome misery!



    Edited by trisuppo 2014-04-03 7:34 AM




    (Capture1.PNG)



    (Capture.PNG)



    (Capture2.PNG)



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    Capture1.PNG (15KB - 8 downloads)
    Capture.PNG (6KB - 9 downloads)
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    2014-04-03 7:36 AM
    in reply to: trisuppo

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    Champion
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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
    Originally posted by trisuppo

    Did the 5' test last night. I dialed up some Metallica (Sad but True) to coincide with the 5 minutes of pain and agony. I started out too hard (my usual MO) and did my best to hang on. By the end I couldn't hear the music anymore as I was just thinking "turn the pedals, turn the pedals, just keep turning the pedals". I shifted into an easier gear at one point and saw too much power drop off and had trouble getting the watts back up to target. At the end its amazing how little strength you have left in your legs. Absolute awesome misery!


    Very nice - I've always preferred by Tool or RATM for the short tests but I can see how Metallica would fit the bill as well!

    Shane
    2014-04-03 7:48 AM
    in reply to: gsmacleod

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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
    Originally posted by gsmacleod

    Originally posted by trisuppo

    Did the 5' test last night. I dialed up some Metallica (Sad but True) to coincide with the 5 minutes of pain and agony. I started out too hard (my usual MO) and did my best to hang on. By the end I couldn't hear the music anymore as I was just thinking "turn the pedals, turn the pedals, just keep turning the pedals". I shifted into an easier gear at one point and saw too much power drop off and had trouble getting the watts back up to target. At the end its amazing how little strength you have left in your legs. Absolute awesome misery!


    Very nice - I've always preferred by Tool or RATM for the short tests but I can see how Metallica would fit the bill as well!

    Shane


    The problem with improving on the short tests if you then have to improve on the long test to keep or improve your CP...20 minutes of hurt dialed up for tomorrow. Any music suggestions? We need a 20' pain playlist!
    2014-04-03 7:48 AM
    in reply to: Scott71

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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
    Originally posted by Scott71

    I've been fortunate, and have never dealt with a flat during a race, but even though I will only be racing Sprints and Olympics I plan on taking a flat kit. In the off-season I bought the Torrhans VR Aero Frame bottle and plan to stow away the flat kit there.  I have the Felt B16 and so can only mount on the seat tube.


    I've thought about doing this as I have a Specialized frame bottle that fits pretty nicely in my frame but I have my flat kit in my Bento Box - since I don't have an airfoil shaped steerer tube, the testing that I've seen indicates that the Bento Box behind the steerer tube should have little or not aerodynamic penalty. This leaves me to use the Specialized bottle for hydration when don longer rides on my tribike or if I ever race a HIM again.

    Last season I bought a can of Vittoria Pit Stop and would tape it under the top tube at the front butting up against the head tube.  If there is no or minimal aero penalty, I was planning on using it again this year for a quick flat repair and try to stay in a race.  Is there a better placement than under the top tube?  I've seen other racers tape it to the back of the seat tube, but I think there is more exposure there.


    Similar to the Bento Box, very likely minimal aero penalty. I've seen people with it taped to the seat tube as well and others who have it under their seat - Depending on the aeroness of your headtube, I would think that perhaps behind the seatpost (in already very disturbed air) may be a better placement but probably a very small difference between the two positions.

    For the 30km Sprints and the Olympics I plan on using my Profile Design Aero Bottle between the aero bars.  As was discussed earlier, I have cut the straw very short and was even thinking of switching to a flexible straw that could be bent and attached to the top of the bottle when not in use. Is there any aero penalty with the bottle itself (I prefer it to the horizontal bottle holder between the arms).


    Short straw is certainly the way to go and depending on the your headtube, the PD bottles have showed slight improvement in some testing but if you have a nice aero frame, it's likely no benefit and possibly adding a bit of extra drag.

    Also, for the 30km and 40km bike legs, I have a small bento box to put a gel flask and which used to hold a few extra parts of the flat kit.  I think the Torrhans bottle can hold everything I need, so would only use the bento box for the gel flask if there was little or no aero penalty and, if a problem, would otherwise just tape a gel or two to the top tube. I've seen it mounted either against the stem or at the back against the seat post - does one have a better aero profile over the other?


    Again, from what I've seen this depends a bit on your setup but if you have a cylindrical steerer tube, the Bento Box has shown some improvement in some testing. In that case (which is what I do) I would go with the flat kit in the Bento Box and jam a gel or two in there with them.

    I was also wondering how people position their heads in aero position.  I have the Giro Advantage 2 aero helmet, but have always struggled with neck flexibility and looking straight ahead during a race.  Instead, I position the helmet high on my forehead to keep the tail close to my back, and tend to look slightly downwards (about 15 yards or so in front of my front wheel) and then look down the road every 20 to 30 seconds or so and for passing and cornering.


    This is pretty much what I do; if you look at the images I linked, the A2 higher on the forehead to get the tail close to the back (I've gotten it closer since those pictures were taken) head down, looking through the top of my skull to see down the road.

    Also, for testing, if you have a Garmin, RChung was doing some roll down testing without power to look at Crr and CdA. It's been a while since I read it but even though you don't have a powermeter, you may be able to refine your position using that method.

    Shane
    2014-04-03 6:41 PM
    in reply to: trisuppo

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    Subject: RE: Week 13 - Last Tests!
    Originally posted by trisuppo

    Did the 5' test last night. I dialed up some Metallica (Sad but True) to coincide with the 5 minutes of pain and agony. I started out too hard (my usual MO) and did my best to hang on. By the end I couldn't hear the music anymore as I was just thinking "turn the pedals, turn the pedals, just keep turning the pedals". I shifted into an easier gear at one point and saw too much power drop off and had trouble getting the watts back up to target. At the end its amazing how little strength you have left in your legs. Absolute awesome misery!




    Congratulations. Nice improvements!!
    The Average HR is interesting.
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    2006-12-20 4:55 PM Ron
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