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2013-12-20 9:14 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
I agree Brain, we are as a general rule not the best swimmers. Problem is , the guys I am trying to beat are good swimmers. Last years hometown Oly distance, one of two A races on my calender, the swim leader was also top 3 in the 50-54 and he paced a sub 1:20 1500. I did great for me, 6 minutes faster then the previous year at 1:45 pace, but it shows how much work I have yet to do to get to the podium. The top guys in ANY AG are fast, no doubt about it! I hate those guys lol!


2013-12-20 9:26 PM
in reply to: Coach Gil

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion

Originally posted by Coach Gil I agree Brain, we are as a general rule not the best swimmers. Problem is , the guys I am trying to beat are good swimmers. Last years hometown Oly distance, one of two A races on my calender, the swim leader was also top 3 in the 50-54 and he paced a sub 1:20 1500. I did great for me, 6 minutes faster then the previous year at 1:45 pace, but it shows how much work I have yet to do to get to the podium. The top guys in ANY AG are fast, no doubt about it! I hate those guys lol!

I watch races where you have to be sub 1:10 to have a chance to be in the race........it's insane to me, but a blast to watch.   Your improvement is impressive for sure......stay with it.  Lots of people say, "you can't win a triathlon with a swim, but you can lose it there".......that's old school, and wrong, don't be fooled.  Learn to swin fast or forget about it.....you're not racing.  A podium finish today requires proficiency across the board.

2013-12-21 2:58 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Couldn't agree more, the longer I am involved in this sport, the more I find how good the fast guys really are. You MIGHT be able to give up some swim time in half and iron distance where bike legs come more into play, but, you cannot give up (in my case 5-7 mins.) much at all in Oly distance, the bike and run are not long enough to make up that kind of set back. Back to the pool for me!
2013-12-25 6:48 AM
in reply to: Coach Gil

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
I am a beginner too. I only learned how to swim in late August, and was doing about 2.30/2.35min per 100m in a 50m pool, when doing 1000m and above swims. I could do an all out sprint and get down to 1.40min/100m.

Last weekend I joined my first triathlon and did my first open water swim. Water was shallow so we had to jog/walk into the water which was quite slow. But to my suprise I clocked in at 2.04min/100m average for about 1700m swim. Much faster than my pool, and I felt it in the water too - really felt like a fish haha. I know it's not world class pace but was a great victory for me.
This was a no-wetsuit race in warm water.

My turns in the pool definitely suck and I try to not kick to hard off the walls so I get as much swim practice as possible, so that might impact it a bit. On the other hand the sighting and bumping into people sure took some time away too in the race.
2013-12-25 10:40 PM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.
2013-12-26 8:49 AM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by simpsonbo

Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.

Their coaches didn't yell at them enough...


2013-12-26 1:14 PM
in reply to: Dunn Right

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Ok guys the next set is 20 x 25 fly no breathing on 45. If anyone takes a breath the whole squad starts the set over again.
2013-12-26 1:26 PM
in reply to: Dunn Right

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion

Originally posted by Dunn Right
Originally posted by simpsonbo Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.
Their coaches didn't yell at them enough...

HA!!!!

2013-12-27 12:18 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Dunn Right
Originally posted by simpsonbo Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.
Their coaches didn't yell at them enough...

HA!!!!




We always got reemed for breathing between the flags too (either direction)
2013-12-27 4:47 AM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by simpsonbo

Ok guys the next set is 20 x 25 fly no breathing on 45. If anyone takes a breath the whole squad starts the set over again.

You don't want to be the guy who makes the whole group start over; you will regret it
2013-12-27 11:59 AM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by simpsonbo

Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.


Hey this is interesting. I don't have any coach and taught myself to swim off youtube in August I just figured I would get more "swim" effect by not kicking the wall when I turn, but your point about breath control is good. I just thought kicking the wall would somehow "inflate" my swim pace and fool me to think I am faster than I am.

Btw, as a sidenote, I was forced to do some swimming in a 25 meter pool at a hotel I was staying recently, where they had stretched a wire across the pool in the middle to mark the deep end from the shallow end. So every 12,5 meter I had to swim under that bloody wire. Turned out to be good practice for OW I think


2013-12-27 8:45 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by simpsonbo

Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.


My coach would throw kick boards at us if we sandbagged a turn.

That said, I do a flip turn but don't push off the wall. I start every lap from a dead start. I am forbidden to push off the wall and physically cannot do it. I swim a 1:45/100m in the pool, but 1:30/100m in OW. There are reasons some of us sandbag turns, and in my case it has made me stronger because I am always playing catch-up to the others after every turn.
2013-12-27 9:16 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion

Keep working on your swim and you will continue to improve.

Most folks with more effort can go faster at shorter distance than longer distance which you do not do per your post. It is likely that you just swim but don't do intervals or hard swimming.

What type of workouts do you do? where do you get them? Or do you just get in and swim?

Swimming is low risk for injury and you will make gains if you do speed work or hard swimming unlike running where speed work has a higher possibility of injury.

Good and fun way to try this is to do 25s as fast as you can recovery well, and do another one, recover well and continue until you do 8 or 10. Does your time stay the same? get faster? get slower?

Learning to swim faster takes teaching your body to swim faster and it easier to do in smaller chunks and shorter distances to start to learn. Moving from shorter to longer intervals over time is one way.

Following swim workouts is another way. To me a structured swim workout is more fun and keeps me focused more.

 

2013-12-28 11:03 AM
in reply to: KathyG

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Sets of say 3x20x25 @ 25 goal time of 15 or better is one I use to develop speed endurance.
2013-12-28 11:33 AM
in reply to: Dunn Right

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion

Originally posted by Dunn Right
Originally posted by simpsonbo Ok guys the next set is 20 x 25 fly no breathing on 45. If anyone takes a breath the whole squad starts the set over again.
You don't want to be the guy who makes the whole group start over; you will regret it

LOL!  We've employed that tactic with the HS team a lot.  It's amazing how well the team can enforce their own discipline to the set when everyone pays the price for sandbagging.

 

2013-12-28 11:37 AM
in reply to: Dunn Right

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by Dunn Right

Originally posted by simpsonbo

Ok guys the next set is 20 x 25 fly no breathing on 45. If anyone takes a breath the whole squad starts the set over again.

You don't want to be the guy who makes the whole group start over; you will regret it



I think Bo would do it intentionally. I think he actually likes sets like that :-)


2013-12-28 11:40 AM
in reply to: fortissimo

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion

Originally posted by fortissimo
Originally posted by simpsonbo Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.
My coach would throw kick boards at us if we sandbagged a turn. That said, I do a flip turn but don't push off the wall. I start every lap from a dead start. I am forbidden to push off the wall and physically cannot do it. I swim a 1:45/100m in the pool, but 1:30/100m in OW. There are reasons some of us sandbag turns, and in my case it has made me stronger because I am always playing catch-up to the others after every turn.

The physical part is understood when it is some sort of injury/condition, but besides that, why would you be forbidden from pushing off?

2013-12-28 11:49 AM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion

Originally posted by knuta99
Originally posted by simpsonbo Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.
Hey this is interesting. I don't have any coach and taught myself to swim off youtube in August I just figured I would get more "swim" effect by not kicking the wall when I turn, but your point about breath control is good. I just thought kicking the wall would somehow "inflate" my swim pace and fool me to think I am faster than I am. Btw, as a sidenote, I was forced to do some swimming in a 25 meter pool at a hotel I was staying recently, where they had stretched a wire across the pool in the middle to mark the deep end from the shallow end. So every 12,5 meter I had to swim under that bloody wire. Turned out to be good practice for OW I think

Don't worry about "inflating" the pace in the pool. Get through the turn quickly and you'll be back to swimming sooner. The time saved can help you fit in a few more laps if you choose to use it.  That along with the streamlining helping your development too. Also, over time you'll learn how your pool pacing will convert to outdoors. Try not to fool around with gimicky things to make them more the "same", but rather try to focus development on becoming as fast as possible.

2013-12-28 2:43 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Brian Coote and I did that once


Watch "The Fast & The Furious" on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jHkIxud968&feature=youtube_gdata_pl...

50 min awesome swimming documentary from the early 80's
2013-12-28 2:56 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
For those who want to swim more per length find a 50 metre pool if you can... we swam both scm/lcm year round (much better than half the year only doing one or the other).
2013-12-28 3:08 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by simpsonbo

Brian Coote and I did that once


Watch "The Fast & The Furious" on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jHkIxud968&feature=youtube_gdata_pl...

50 min awesome swimming documentary from the early 80's


Funny to get a glimpse of my coach almost 40 years ago : Dave Johnson.


2013-12-28 3:26 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
1990 Swim Canada Awards

Best Dave Johnson impression: Tom Johnson.

Best Tom Johnson impression: Dave Johnson.

2013-12-28 3:36 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by Dunn Right
Originally posted by simpsonbo Ok guys the next set is 20 x 25 fly no breathing on 45. If anyone takes a breath the whole squad starts the set over again.
You don't want to be the guy who makes the whole group start over; you will regret it

LOL!  We've employed that tactic with the HS team a lot.  It's amazing how well the team can enforce their own discipline to the set when everyone pays the price for sandbagging.

When I coached HS we would use it to get people to practice on time as well. For every minute that one person was late, they would all do a 50 fly. You'd be amazed how quickly people would get to the pool after that last bell. Peer pressure isn't always a bad thing!
2013-12-28 3:49 PM
in reply to: Dunn Right

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
A coach in Regina locked the doors. That stopped after a 10 year old was left outside in -40C.
2013-12-28 4:29 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Average Swim Time and other swim confusion
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by fortissimo
Originally posted by simpsonbo Why do you guys sandbag your turns/push offs ? Breath control skills are invaluable when swimming in big packs and stuff goes wrong. There is no excuse to sandbag turns in the pool in my opinion, you don't need to have mad turn skills to be good in OW but intentional sandbagging is just plain goofy.
My coach would throw kick boards at us if we sandbagged a turn. That said, I do a flip turn but don't push off the wall. I start every lap from a dead start. I am forbidden to push off the wall and physically cannot do it. I swim a 1:45/100m in the pool, but 1:30/100m in OW. There are reasons some of us sandbag turns, and in my case it has made me stronger because I am always playing catch-up to the others after every turn.

The physical part is understood when it is some sort of injury/condition, but besides that, why would you be forbidden from pushing off?




I have an injury that won't heal. It isn't getting better, but isn't getting worse so I am postponing yet another surgery for as long as possible.

Should I mention now that I can't kick either? I basically use one leg to keep balance in the water.

We swam in a 50m pool this summer and I loved every practice! Fewer walls to not push off meant playing less catch up. Unfortunately the 50m pools here are only open in the summer.
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