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2014-04-24 11:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Nice time on the 3500, Christina!


2014-04-24 11:17 AM
in reply to: #4986308


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Question:

Are your muscles constantly tired with your training?

Mine are - and I'm wondering if this is contributing to my weight gain (ie inflammation). Maybe I'm just too new at this training (even though I've been at this level for over a year) and I need to back off? I've also wondered if I backed off on some of it, if it would allow me to recover and therefore have more strength coming into my workouts.

I was listening to a podcast by Ben Greenfield with Cate Shanahan (if anyone is familiar with him???) and thinking that of the pieces he mentions, that's the most likely for me. I need to make sure I'm getting enough sleep, too. He also mentioned a study that showed with endurance level training, you can decrease your metabolism by up to 30%. Now, even if that happened, I should not be GAINING weight - but doing something around maintaining levels.

Yesterday I was uncomfortable hunched over on the bike. I don't like the additional volume in my abdomen that this weight gain has caused. Even though it's pretty solid in there, it's still volume.
2014-04-24 11:21 AM
in reply to: MechEChick

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Great job!!
2014-04-24 11:54 AM
in reply to: kathleenkp

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Originally posted by kathleenkp
Question:

Are your muscles constantly tired with your training?

Tired or sore?
2014-04-24 11:55 AM
in reply to: #4986314


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Re: Ben Greenfield - If anyone has any comments I'd appreciate them.

For our food - We cook most of it from scratch, have grass-fed beef from a cow we bought (and a pig, too, though that one got some grain feedings, and a lamb). I make my own spreadable butter from organic butter. But I also have a family and want them to eat normal food - so I'm not into weird diets. I am not giving up carbohydrates (though I do try to not eat them in excess, and they are mostly whole grain, whole fruit and vegie). I even allow the kids and myself to have sodas when I take them to fast-food. I am more for eating as healthy a diet as we can nearly all the time, with the bad stuff in moderation so that nobody develops weird "deprivation hangups" which is what I did as a kid/young adult. So that's where I'm coming from when I try to find nutrition help.
2014-04-24 11:58 AM
in reply to: #4986357


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Maybe more tired??

It is never painful to move them, but I can sure feel them. Every day - except when we went to Mexico and I ended up on a taper week by walking (not running) for hours, using the awful bike in the little gym and working on drills in the pool. Then my muscles were not tired.


2014-04-24 1:45 PM
in reply to: kathleenkp

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Originally posted by kathleenkp

Maybe more tired??

It is never painful to move them, but I can sure feel them. Every day - except when we went to Mexico and I ended up on a taper week by walking (not running) for hours, using the awful bike in the little gym and working on drills in the pool. Then my muscles were not tired.

Hm. How much time are you training in a week?

As far as food, I sure don't have that figured out. It sounds healthy to me.
2014-04-24 1:45 PM
in reply to: kathleenkp

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed

Ben has some good stuff to offer.  He's a very polarizing figure in triathlon.  Some people would call him a nut job, others really like his stuff.  I've taken and used some of his strength training workouts with myself and my clients.

 

How do you schedule you're recovery?  Do you stack intense workouts one on top of the other?  I used to suffer from the same type of stuff, but I never kept my easy days easy.  My hard days were killers and my easy days were moderate intensity.  There are some tools in Training Peaks that are useful.  If you upload your data the Performance Management Chart is awesome in regards to fatigue.

2014-04-24 9:26 PM
in reply to: #4986358


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
I put in between 9 and 11 hours a week of tri specific (S/B/R) workouts. I am in the first phase of Be Iron Fit (the first 10 weeks). I also do other things like weight training with a trainer (backed off to 30 min sessions 2-3x week, usually 2, in the last couple of months - I used to do 75 min sessions). And I took easy yoga and rolling classes this week that seemed to help.

Today I was supposed to do an 80 minute run, but I took the day off. My legs feel better and I plan to do the run in the morning. So I ended up skipping one run this week. My plan has one day off a week, but I think I really need two (separated).
2014-04-24 9:33 PM
in reply to: #4986690


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Yes, that's probably how it goes for me - hard days (though I haven't done too many of them lately - I did try to back off a bit in intensity when I started Be Iron Fit) and the easy days are really moderate intensity. I think I'm just not good enough to do "easy" effort. My easy effort would be other people's lazy day. To keep my HR at "easy", I don't think I could run at all. Only walk.

(OK - I *DO* realize I am one of the most hard-core people at my gym, and my coaches/trainer/other committed people constantly comment on that, so when I say "other people's" I am talking relatively here - relative to other triathletes, and yes, the specifically the guys - not just everyone at the gym. I guess I have a hard time with wanting to keep up with the guys, and I'm coming from behind with ground to make up.)

I haven't done any Training Peaks things, so I don't know how to do that yet. So far I just train by perceived effort.
2014-04-24 11:31 PM
in reply to: #4986692


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Thanks for the thoughts on Ben. That's kind of the opinion I was coming to as I was reading though some of his site. I have a hard time swallowing "motivational speakers", and I see he pushes fat burning endurance fueling... But I'm going to go through more of it and see if I can find some helpful things. He had one cool workout that he did with his twin boys that made me smile.


2014-04-25 9:15 AM
in reply to: kathleenkp

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Originally posted by kathleenkp
(OK - I *DO* realize I am one of the most hard-core people at my gym, and my coaches/trainer/other committed people constantly comment on that, so when I say "other people's" I am talking relatively here - relative to other triathletes, and yes, the specifically the guys - not just everyone at the gym. I guess I have a hard time with wanting to keep up with the guys, and I'm coming from behind with ground to make up.)

Ha! You just described me too!
2014-04-25 11:26 AM
in reply to: MechEChick

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed

So here's something I've worked through with others, including pros, about easy days.  Recovery efforts are supposed to be easier than you'd think.  Recovery runs are just a smidge faster than walking.  They walk that fine line.  Recovery efforts on the bike are almost no gear on and spinning at 90+ rpm.  I've spoken to pros who do recovery bikes at 12-14 mph.  It's THAT slow.

 

Trust me when I say that training smart will get you caught up with the guys a lot faster than training balls to the wall every time out.  There is a reason that many triathletes don't like to train in groups.  They get caught up in the herd and throw the day's plan out the window.  You really have to be disciplined to start a ride with a group but make sure you do your own thing regardless of what people are doing around you.

2014-04-25 1:09 PM
in reply to: uhcoog

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
That's a really good point, Scott. Based on what you said I think I've been doing my recovery workouts all wrong.
2014-04-26 2:18 AM
in reply to: #4986730


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Today I did my long run Galloway style. I did 8 min run/2 min walk. I took about :42 OFF my overall mile pace from when I (mostly) "ran" the same course two weeks ago. I was expecting maybe 15 seconds faster, or at least to finish with close to the same overall pace but feel better doing it. I felt much stronger all the way through. As I was running, it occured to me that this is how I swim - with breaks in between. And I get faster that way, even on the longer distances. I have thought that I might end up doing a Galloway-style to get through the run at Lake Stevens. I would rather not walk, but my goal is to cross the finish line, and hopefully in a decent time. I may change to a 9/1 as I work on this type run.

(No, I didn't do the run easy, although it wasn't all out - it was moderate instensity. Of course.)

Then I had a huge digestive issue an hour in and started wondering (panicking, really) if I was going to make it home OK - and did I know anybody who would be at home along the way??? I also had the stress of knowing I had only a few minutes to get a shower and out the door for work - so sitting in the bathroom as long as I wanted to was not going to be an option. So...all that to say...this is an area I definitely need to work on in order to make it though Lake Stevens. I get this way when I run longer distances, although my tolerance for how long before it sets in seems to build over time. It might have been aggravated by the coconut oil and PB that I ate an hour before the run. I have to try it again to find out if high-fat is a big NO at that time. But I won't do in on a day when I have to go to work afterwards.

AJ - I was thinking about the run at your race. My gym trainer, who loves running like I love swimming, suggested I do the Galloway style to see how my IT bands fared. (They seem better after this run than the last one.) She also said that if I plan to run/walk during my race, I should be training that way. She said it was better to PLAN it out than to crash and burn or take random walk breaks. Do you think that might be something you need? (I know that you didn't want to walk/considered it failure...)
2014-04-26 2:19 AM
in reply to: #4987311


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
I appreciate seeing that about the "smidge over walking" pace. It will help me.


2014-04-26 3:07 PM
in reply to: #4987312


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
36 mile ride this morning. 18 with group, then broke off and did another 18 on my own so I could practice the aerobars. Today, the ride was up to and around Lake Stevens, and then I hit the Centennial Trail portion that runs through LS that is mostly flat-like. Almost at the end I had delusions like "OK, I can make it through Lake Stevens. I can handle the swim and even the bike. Perhaps I should think about a full now." Then I got off the bike.

And I need better padding.

At least driving home, with every cyclist I saw (and there were many out today b/c the weather is perfect for it!), I was wishing I was still out on the bike. So I guess that's a good sign. I still wish I was back out on that trail. But, I thought I should not way overdo it - last week was 25 miles and I need to build slower than jumping to a six hour ride today.

AND! There are 4 other regular women in my group rides. I found out today that 3 of them are also doing Lake Stevens. We started talking about doing some OWS together.
2014-04-26 3:11 PM
in reply to: #4987460


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
You will be happy to know, Scott, that I took a good portion of the trail on my own at 13ish mph and I didn't even feel bad about it.

(Your comment helped me to relax about the speed, which is what I needed to do since today was my first time with any substantial - more than 1/4 mile - time in the aerobars.)
2014-04-28 9:53 AM
in reply to: kathleenkp

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed

Originally posted by kathleenkp You will be happy to know, Scott, that I took a good portion of the trail on my own at 13ish mph and I didn't even feel bad about it. (Your comment helped me to relax about the speed, which is what I needed to do since today was my first time with any substantial - more than 1/4 mile - time in the aerobars.)

 

YAY!!

 

Speed is a by product of quite a few outside forces in addition to our effort.  It's not a metric really to race on train by (especially on the bike).  Ideally you race and train by zones (HR or Power) or you become really in tune with your body and learn to gauge Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE).

2014-04-28 11:42 AM
in reply to: kathleenkp

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Originally posted by kathleenkp
AJ - I was thinking about the run at your race. My gym trainer, who loves running like I love swimming, suggested I do the Galloway style to see how my IT bands fared. (They seem better after this run than the last one.) She also said that if I plan to run/walk during my race, I should be training that way. She said it was better to PLAN it out than to crash and burn or take random walk breaks. Do you think that might be something you need? (I know that you didn't want to walk/considered it failure...)
I think it was a combination of several factors that caused me to do that (dehydration, overcooking the bike, not enough bricks, etc.). I've never walked during a race before and I'm hoping I won't have to again!
2014-04-28 10:34 PM
in reply to: kathleenkp

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed

Originally posted by kathleenkp Question: Are your muscles constantly tired with your training? Mine are - and I'm wondering if this is contributing to my weight gain (ie inflammation). Maybe I'm just too new at this training (even though I've been at this level for over a year) and I need to back off? I've also wondered if I backed off on some of it, if it would allow me to recover and therefore have more strength coming into my workouts. I was listening to a podcast by Ben Greenfield with Cate Shanahan (if anyone is familiar with him???) and thinking that of the pieces he mentions, that's the most likely for me. I need to make sure I'm getting enough sleep, too. He also mentioned a study that showed with endurance level training, you can decrease your metabolism by up to 30%. Now, even if that happened, I should not be GAINING weight - but doing something around maintaining levels. Yesterday I was uncomfortable hunched over on the bike. I don't like the additional volume in my abdomen that this weight gain has caused. Even though it's pretty solid in there, it's still volume.

The more endurance I seem to do, the more I seem to gain.  As soon as I switch to short workouts with higher intensity the weight and flab come right off. I'm burning less calories, but the shorter workouts don't increase my hunger like long training sessions do.  I read an article roughly 2 weeks ago about how long training sessions increase stress hormones and hunger - the two combined causes weight gain.  Just doesn't seem fair to burn off so many calories and end up gaining weight.



2014-04-28 10:40 PM
in reply to: #4987461


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
Today's workout was a lot better than I've had lately, and a whole lot better than I anticipated going into it based on how I felt. I put in over 3 straight hours, but even the quick run (last thing I did, after bike) was one of the easiest I've had on the treadmill to date. I am going to do two rest days a week (split days) for a bit and see if my body responds better to more recovery. This involves juggling around the days from my book plan. Maybe there are other factors than just more rest that contributed.
2014-04-28 10:41 PM
in reply to: crissy_jo

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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed

Highlights from Saturday's 12 hour adventure race: flat tire at start of bike leg, self inflicted black eye from oar, 500 mph wind out of the East, waves on the lake big enough to surf during the canoe section, 50 cuts on the thighs from the thorniest state in the nation (thorn must be Iowa's state flower), winning $600 bike rims, finding elusive check point #17 in less than 12 minutes when other teams spent 60r to 90 minutes looking for it, and racing with the friendliest racers I know.

Final results haven't been posted and I'm anxious to see how we fared against the best racers in the nation.  I know they beat us, but curious how the rest of the field fared in comparison.

2014-04-28 10:43 PM
in reply to: #4988690


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
oops - I meant to add that the posts Scott has put up about recovery were some of the motivation/encouragement in taking an extra rest day (when I knew I actually needed it, but usually want to stick to the plan). In micro-fashion, the Galloway-style run also included rest, and my body definitely did better with that run.
2014-04-28 10:45 PM
in reply to: #4988692


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Subject: RE: Scott and Kelly's Mentor Group- Closed
WTG Crissy! You did have "adventure" listed in that name. Sounds like the race lived up to it. Nice on the rims you won. Are they for your road bike or a mountain bike?
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